Ordered to ground at gunpoint for open carrying by cleveland heights ohio police


sorry you guys but the city can read #6:
pulled striat from ohio code
504.04 Exercise of powers under limited home rule government.
(A) A township that adopts a limited home rule government may do all of the following by resolution, provided that any of these resolutions, other than a resolution to supply water or sewer services in accordance with sections 504.18 to 504.20 of the Revised Code, may be enforced only by the imposition of civil fines as authorized in this chapter:

(1) Exercise all powers of local self-government within the unincorporated area of the township, other than powers that are in conflict with general laws, except that the township shall comply with the requirements and prohibitions of this chapter, and shall enact no taxes other than those authorized by general law, and except that no resolution adopted pursuant to this chapter shall encroach upon the powers, duties, and privileges of elected township officers or change, alter, combine, eliminate, or otherwise modify the form or structure of the township government unless the change is required or permitted by this chapter;

(2) Adopt and enforce within the unincorporated area of the township local police, sanitary, and other similar regulations that are not in conflict with general laws or otherwise prohibited by division (B) of this section;

(3) Supply water and sewer services to users within the unincorporated area of the township in accordance with sections 504.18 to 504.20 of the Revised Code;

(4) Adopt and enforce within the unincorporated area of the township any resolution of a type described in section 503.52 or 503.60 of the Revised Code.

(B) No resolution adopted pursuant to this chapter shall do any of the following:

(1) Create a criminal offense or impose criminal penalties, except as authorized by division (A) of this section or by section 503.52 of the Revised Code;

(2) Impose civil fines other than as authorized by this chapter;

(3) Establish or revise subdivision regulations, road construction standards, urban sediment rules, or storm water and drainage regulations, except as provided in section 504.21 of the Revised Code;

(4) Establish or revise building standards, building codes, and other standard codes except as provided in section 504.13 of the Revised Code;

(5) Increase, decrease, or otherwise alter the powers or duties of a township under any other chapter of the Revised Code pertaining to agriculture or the conservation or development of natural resources;

(6) Establish regulations affecting hunting, trapping, fishing, or the possession, use, or sale of firearms;

(7) Establish or revise water or sewer regulations, except in accordance with section 504.18, 504.19, or 504.21 of the Revised Code.

Nothing in this chapter shall be construed as affecting the powers of counties with regard to the subjects listed in divisions (B)(3) to (5) of this section.

(C) Under a limited home rule government, all officers shall have the qualifications, and be nominated, elected, or appointed, as provided in Chapter 505. of the Revised Code, except that the board of township trustees shall appoint a full-time or part-time law director pursuant to section 504.15 of the Revised Code, and except that a five-member board of township trustees approved for the township before September 26, 2003, shall continue to serve as the legislative authority with successive members serving for four-year terms of office until a termination of a limited home rule government under section 504.03 of the Revised Code.

(D) In case of conflict between resolutions enacted by a board of township trustees and municipal ordinances or resolutions, the ordinance or resolution enacted by the municipal corporation prevails. In case of conflict between resolutions enacted by a board of township trustees and any county resolution, the resolution enacted by the board of township trustees prevails.

Effective Date: 09-05-2001; 05-06-2005; 08-17-2006; 2007 SB97 01-01-2008
 

79broncoguy said:
sorry you guys but the city can read #6:
pulled striat from ohio code
504.04 Exercise of powers under limited home rule government.
(A) A township that adopts a limited home rule government may do all of the following by resolution, provided that any of these resolutions, other than a resolution to supply water or sewer services in accordance with sections 504.18 to 504.20 of the Revised Code, may be enforced only by the imposition of civil fines as authorized in this chapter:

(1) Exercise all powers of local self-government within the unincorporated area of the township, other than powers that are in conflict with general laws, except that the township shall comply with the requirements and prohibitions of this chapter, and shall enact no taxes other than those authorized by general law, and except that no resolution adopted pursuant to this chapter shall encroach upon the powers, duties, and privileges of elected township officers or change, alter, combine, eliminate, or otherwise modify the form or structure of the township government unless the change is required or permitted by this chapter;

(2) Adopt and enforce within the unincorporated area of the township local police, sanitary, and other similar regulations that are not in conflict with general laws or otherwise prohibited by division (B) of this section;

(3) Supply water and sewer services to users within the unincorporated area of the township in accordance with sections 504.18 to 504.20 of the Revised Code;

(4) Adopt and enforce within the unincorporated area of the township any resolution of a type described in section 503.52 or 503.60 of the Revised Code.

(B) No resolution adopted pursuant to this chapter shall do any of the following:

(1) Create a criminal offense or impose criminal penalties, except as authorized by division (A) of this section or by section 503.52 of the Revised Code;

(2) Impose civil fines other than as authorized by this chapter;

(3) Establish or revise subdivision regulations, road construction standards, urban sediment rules, or storm water and drainage regulations, except as provided in section 504.21 of the Revised Code;

(4) Establish or revise building standards, building codes, and other standard codes except as provided in section 504.13 of the Revised Code;

(5) Increase, decrease, or otherwise alter the powers or duties of a township under any other chapter of the Revised Code pertaining to agriculture or the conservation or development of natural resources;

(6) Establish regulations affecting hunting, trapping, fishing, or the possession, use, or sale of firearms;

(7) Establish or revise water or sewer regulations, except in accordance with section 504.18, 504.19, or 504.21 of the Revised Code.

Nothing in this chapter shall be construed as affecting the powers of counties with regard to the subjects listed in divisions (B)(3) to (5) of this section.

(C) Under a limited home rule government, all officers shall have the qualifications, and be nominated, elected, or appointed, as provided in Chapter 505. of the Revised Code, except that the board of township trustees shall appoint a full-time or part-time law director pursuant to section 504.15 of the Revised Code, and except that a five-member board of township trustees approved for the township before September 26, 2003, shall continue to serve as the legislative authority with successive members serving for four-year terms of office until a termination of a limited home rule government under section 504.03 of the Revised Code.

(D) In case of conflict between resolutions enacted by a board of township trustees and municipal ordinances or resolutions, the ordinance or resolution enacted by the municipal corporation prevails. In case of conflict between resolutions enacted by a board of township trustees and any county resolution, the resolution enacted by the board of township trustees prevails.

Effective Date: 09-05-2001; 05-06-2005; 08-17-2006; 2007 SB97 01-01-2008
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The firearms laws preemption is what would apply to the part in red above.

HB347 became effective in March of 2007. It operates to preempt a patchwork of varied and confusing local rules with "uniform laws throughout the state regulating the ownership, possession, purchase, other acquisition, transport, storage, carrying, sale, or other transfer of firearms, their components, and their ammunition."

Sec. 9.68. (A) The individual right to keep and bear arms, being a fundamental individual right that predates the United States Constitution and Ohio Constitution, and being a constitutionally protected right in every part of Ohio, the general assembly finds the need to provide uniform laws throughout the state regulating the ownership, possession, purchase, other acquisition, transport, storage, carrying, sale, or other transfer of firearms, their components, and their ammunition. Except as specifically provided by the United States Constitution, Ohio Constitution, state law, or federal law, a person, without further license, permission, restriction, delay, or process, may own, possess, purchase, sell, transfer, transport, store, or keep any firearm, part of a firearm, its components, and its ammunition.
 
Thanks for the update. You may have brought some change if a judge ordered training of officers in the actual law. But alas, training is one thing. Action and true change is quite another.

One more bite taken, one small victory for the second amendment, though, in my opinion.
 
Freedom, while you may be in the right legaly, when you troll around like that with a vid camera, waiting for somebody to call the law because they were afraid, and rightfuly so, of a man with a gun, you sir are being a trouble maker and deserve to have your ass busted, hey if you really want to have some fun lets all see how big your balls really are, why dont you try strolling into the bank, or post office, federal building, awe hell why not just walk right into police lock up, wth your gun hanging out, oh and dont forget the camera, YDSAFD
 
Rocketgeezer said:
Freedom, while you may be in the right legally, when you troll around like that with a vid camera, waiting for somebody to call the law because they were afraid, and rightfully so, of a man with a gun, you sir are being a trouble maker and deserve to have your ass busted, hey if you really want to have some fun lets all see how big your balls really are, why don't you try strolling into the bank, or post office, federal building, awe hell why not just walk right into police lock up, with your gun hanging out, oh and don't forget the camera, YDSAFD
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When you try to make an ass out of someone, it would be wise to know what you are talking about, lest you make an ass out of yourself instead.

First, the post office IS a federal building, and therefore a prohibited area. Some states prohibit carrying a firearm into a bank or a police station. So the difference between what FF777 did and what you sarcastically suggest is that one is perfectly legal and the other is not.

Second, why is a civilian strolling down the sidewalk with a holstered sidearm in a non-combative manner any more alarming than a police officer doing the same? And weather or not his intent was to capture a possible confrontation on video is irrelevant. Camera present or camera absent, there was no basis for his detainment, the police acted in an illegal manner.
 
I am a resident of Cleveland Heights (my hole life, 38 yrs) and to be honest there aren't many people here that trust our police department. There is a reason freedom_fighter777 used the term Nazi in his title. Even the most law abiding people in this city "lovingly" refer to it as the Fascist Republic of Cleveland Heights. That part of Mayfield Rd is only 2 blocks from the police department (3 from my house) and I'd be willing to bet that 70% of non tax revenue generated by the city comes from right there. I have friends that will not visit me and will drive around this city because of the police harassment that they receive. It is our police department (or lack their of) that has driven away many of the good people I have known in this city. I have seen our police steal bikes from kids, beat up old ladies and worse. When my home was broken into the officer that responded refused to even fill out a report or go look for the suspect, even though I chased the intruder to his house. When I went to complain about the incident to council I was told " the officer claims you didn't want to fill out a report so it's your fault." When our residents (15 of them from the Quillams area) go to complain about the gang violence they are told "There is no gang problem in this city". WHen they do respond to 30-40 people fighting, stabbing and shooting each other. The pull up in cars and just tell them to disperse and go home. Then the gangs laugh at them because they know the cops are scared to get out of their cars.

Our police don't do much but wright speeding / parking tickets and bother individuals going about their daily business. Our police saw an innocent person walking down the street and decided to give him what for because he was exorcising his rights.

So far this year there has been 3 shooting on my street. One was just Thus and happened within 20 ft of my 12 & 8 yer old daughters that were playing with a friend down the street. The police made sure to search the victims car and arrested the persons who was shot at but the shooter got away and I have no confidence that they are even looking for him.

freedom_fighter777 GOOD FOR YOU FOR STANDING UP FOR OUR COMMUNITY WHEN OUR POLICE REFUSE TO DO SO!!! I don't know you but please PM me so we can meet one day. You are not the only one that is fed the F@#$ up with what has happened to what used to be the best city in North East Ohio. I know LOTS of people in this city (black , white, green, purple, etc.) that are tired of whats going on and are ready to openly carry their guns to defend them selves, their families and this city.

For the people that are knocking this poor guy. What is going on here is EXACTLY why the 2nd amendment was created and you should be ashamed of your self. How are you supporting gun right in America? You don't understand because you don't live here.
 
S&WM&P40 said:
I do know all of my laws. That's why i live in a FREE STATE and you do not. In NH stopped someone on the grounds that he was just open carrying is not put up with. IF your stopped for it they can not hold you and you are free to go. So you Enjoy your Nazi state with your SS storm troopers of police officers. While i will enjoy the free life. You hid in your house while we fight the good fight. Just a FYI there is not such thing as terror to the public. All the officer would get from Dispatch would be a report of a man with a gun at such a location. "The officers need reasonable, articulable suspicion of a crime being committed or about to be committed in order to stop" So tell me if OC is legal in his state then what was the suspicion of a crime? Yes the officers have a duty to respond to every call that much is true. But stopping and harassing a tax payer at gun point makes them no better then the thugs out running our streets with guns. Old saying "Cops are nothing more then THUGS WITH GUNS" You really want to start talking about Entrapment??
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I agree 100%... I used to work Armed Security in Durham, NC alongside Company Police and Durham Police. They all were required to carry a copy of their State & Local Criminal (Penal) Codes because there is no way in hell one person can know them all... unless of course, their a barracks lawyer! The way I see it, the guy was simply looking for a confrontation with the Police, and he got it.
 
Im having mixed emotions on this one as well...Seems to be you baited the police like 2beararms said. I live in Michigan where Open carry is also legal, but I dont OC [as of now] in fear of having that same situation happening to me. I feel in many ways you disrespected the police in this encounter. OC isnt to just walk around the block hoping a policeman would stop you. If anything you should be going about your every day business. Id question whether the police are doing their jobs or not if they didnt at least confront you for at least your ID. I agree the manner in which they approached you was a tad bit off, then again, the attitude you gave them was totally wrong as well.
You should cooperate with them in anyway possible, not mouth off to them. Im all for the 2nd Amendment, but you asked for that one. They didnt break the law by any means, if anything the were making sure they were safe, and you werent able to resist or reach for your weapon, but then again, I cant remember the last time a thug or a BG wore a weapon in an OWB Holster.

Id go about it smarter next time and try not to provoke the police. I hate to say it, but looks like you have a little growing up to do.
 
2beararms said:
Personally I have ZERO respect for anyone who thinks they are important enough to troll and taunt the police into wasting their time, and my tax money, to make a video of their stupidity. How long did you walk back and forth on that street until someone made a complaint call, illiciting the response that you so desired ??

I for one think you were handled with great restraint and respect. YES, police DO have the right to stop, inquire, and detain individuals until they are satisfied that no law is being broken. If they are not satisfied, they have a period of time to detain you in holding until they must either file charges or let you go. This "you are breaking the law" by detaining me is not correct.

Our community works very hard to keep an image of sane, trained and responsible individuals being armed for their own REAL self protection and intentionally taunting the police to get You-Tube video does not help the cause with lawmakers.

Remember, the "founding fathers" were nothing more than law makers, they were not Gods of some kind and the constitution and the rights that we so want to protect are simply laws on paper. Laws that new law makers CAN change today if desired. The second amendment COULD be repealed with enought support, and the first move to attempt that is always the same ... to show that 2nd amendment supporters are simply nut cases with guns ...

don't give them any more to work with than they already have!
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My friend,

Rights that are not exercised are gradually eroded and eventually lost. He fought this battle for you and for me.
 
Itstjs said:
Im having mixed emotions (<-here is your first problem, thinking with your heart and not your mind) on this one as well...Seems to be you baited the police like 2beararms said. I live in Michigan where Open carry is also legal, but I dont OC [as of now] in fear of having that same situation happening to me. I feel in many ways you disrespected the police in this encounter. OC isnt to just walk around the block hoping a policeman would stop you. If anything you should be going about your every day business. Id question whether the police are doing their jobs or not if they didnt at least confront you for at least your ID. I agree the manner in which they approached you was a tad bit off, then again, the attitude you gave them was totally wrong as well.
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This "baiting the police" accusation is becoming tiresome. In what part of the video did it seem that his purpose for OCing that day was to bait the police? In what way did he "disrespect the police"? What attitude did he give the police? And BTW, so freakin' what if his intention was to capture footage of the police detaining him illegally? If he wasn't breaking any laws (which he was not) there was absolutely no reason to detain or even ask for ID.
You should cooperate with them in anyway possible, not mouth off to them. Im all for the 2nd Amendment, but you asked for that one.
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Really? Let me ask you, if an officer comes to your door and asks to come inside even though he has no warrant or reasonable suspicion that there is any criminal activity, are you going to "cooperate in any way possible"?
They didnt break the law by any means, if anything the were making sure they were safe, and you werent able to resist or reach for your weapon, but then again, I cant remember the last time a thug or a BG wore a weapon in an OWB Holster.
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Considering the CHPD settled on the lawsuit, I think it's pretty safe to say that they realized that they did in fact break the law.
Id go about it smarter next time and try not to provoke the police. I hate to say it, but looks like you have a little growing up to do.
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On the contrary, I think it's high time that people who know the law push it to it's extremes. I for one am tired of hearing how we should restrict ourselves far beyond the legal requirements, just so we don't rattle anyone's cage. This is exactly why the CHPD didn't know OC is legal in the first place. It's why hoplophobia is as wide spread as it is. It is no doubt why our 2A rights have been allowed to be eroded over the last century. Surely you've heard the saying "A right un-exercised is a right lost."
 
utimmer43 said:
This "baiting the police" accusation is becoming tiresome. In what part of the video did it seem that his purpose for OCing that day was to bait the police? In what way did he "disrespect the police"? What attitude did he give the police? And BTW, so freakin' what if his intention was to capture footage of the police detaining him illegally? If he wasn't breaking any laws (which he was not) there was absolutely no reason to detain or even ask for ID. Really? Let me ask you, if an officer comes to your door and asks to come inside even though he has no warrant or reasonable suspicion that there is any criminal activity, are you going to "cooperate in any way possible"? Considering the CHPD settled on the lawsuit, I think it's pretty safe to say that they realized that they did in fact break the law.On the contrary, I think it's high time that people who know the law push it to it's extremes. I for one am tired of hearing how we should restrict ourselves far beyond the legal requirements, just so we don't rattle anyone's cage. This is exactly why the CHPD didn't know OC is legal in the first place. It's why hoplophobia is as wide spread as it is. It is no doubt why our 2A rights have been allowed to be eroded over the last century. Surely you've heard the saying "A right un-exercised is a right lost."
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Amen!
 
We need to remember that the police have an agenda. They are there to charge people with crimes. If you are too cooperative, they will find something to charge us with. "Be polite, be professional, dont allow them to take advantage of you"
 
Itstjs said:
Im having mixed emotions on this one as well...Seems to be you baited the police like 2beararms said. I live in Michigan where Open carry is also legal, but I dont OC [as of now] in fear of having that same situation happening to me. I feel in many ways you disrespected the police in this encounter. OC isnt to just walk around the block hoping a policeman would stop you. If anything you should be going about your every day business. Id question whether the police are doing their jobs or not if they didnt at least confront you for at least your ID. I agree the manner in which they approached you was a tad bit off, then again, the attitude you gave them was totally wrong as well.
You should cooperate with them in anyway possible, not mouth off to them. Im all for the 2nd Amendment, but you asked for that one. They didnt break the law by any means, if anything the were making sure they were safe, and you werent able to resist or reach for your weapon, but then again, I cant remember the last time a thug or a BG wore a weapon in an OWB Holster.

Id go about it smarter next time and try not to provoke the police. I hate to say it, but looks like you have a little growing up to do.
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Give them an inch, and they'll take a mile.

So what if the guy in this situtation was walking around for a stroll in the neighborhood? He was within his legal right to open carry without question. The police also did not have the legal right to conduct themselves in the way they did. If you allow police to enforce their own beliefs vs. the actual law, then you are effectively allowing a dangerous status quo.

I'm glad he prosecuted these scum to the fullest extent of the law. Police can be keepers of the peace, but they can also be like typical high school bullies.
 
Midnight said:
...I'm glad he prosecuted these scum to the fullest extent of the law...
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Well, they weren't exactly prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. It was settled out of court. The best part about the whole thing is that the PD was required to educate their officers about the legality of OC and how to conduct themselves when they come upon someone who is doing it.
 
The MOST reaction this MWAG incident should have received was a patrol car to the scene, a polite stop and identify, and a departure. No law was broken, the guy was legally allowed to be where he was and carrying in a lawfully allowed manner.

Anything beyond "Excuse us sir, but we received a call stating there was a man with a gun, and we have to investigate. May we see your ID? (Check for outstanding warrants)Ok, Mr. Xxxxxx, you have a nice day." is unnecessary.
 
wolfhunter said:
The MOST reaction this MWAG incident should have received was a patrol car to the scene, a polite stop and identify, and a departure. No law was broken, the guy was legally allowed to be where he was and carrying in a lawfully allowed manner.

Anything beyond "Excuse us sir, but we received a call stating there was a man with a gun, and we have to investigate. May we see your ID? (Check for outstanding warrants)Ok, Mr. Xxxxxx, you have a nice day." is unnecessary.
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Even that is too far. Sure they may ask, but they may not detain you if you choose to not produce it. And as noted HERE, in PA this scenario has been addressed in a memo. I don't know if OH LEOs have been issued similar memos, but the concept is universal. No RAS, no stop and ID.
 
WOW- i dont want to disrespect the person that made this post but YOU ARE AN IDIOT and you have to be of the NON MINORITY decent- that isnt a racist comment but SON YOU HAVE SOME BALLS and this was complete waste of time- We all know the laws- and im sure the police do to, but who does this. WHAT IS THE POINT- if i see a person walking around "open carry" no badge, no credentials- ill be straight up honest with you, my first concern as a concealed carry holder is, man this idiot is about to snap and kill someone. I'd be on edge, im on edge when ive notice another civilian is concealed carry, not that im looking for it, but sometimes my trained eye has noticed that someone else is carrying. I have been held at gunpoint by police in a walgreens parking lot when a store clerk who was following me through the store, noticed i had a concealed firearm after i leaned over to pick something off the bottom shelf, horrible experience and ill tell you POLICE AND CIVILIANS WITH GUNS can be a lethal mix- if the police are alerted by the general public that you have a gun- My personal opinion of you and this video- COMPLETE STUPIDITY, NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR TIME, the police are doing exactly what they should have done- SOMEONE CALLED THEM TO REPORT A MAN WALKING AROUND WITH A GUN- were they supposed to shake your hand not knowing if you were some crazed cracked out fool??? CMON SON- spend your time doing something else, like i said, this is my opinion- and i dont know you- i just know i have a lot more important things to do then walk around and screw with society and the police
 
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