Open carry incident in Nashville gets me detained 2.5 hour at gun point carried AK-47

[come-and-take-it-FL]

This message is hidden because Axeanda45 is on your Link Removed.

Thanks ric... I've been wondering how to do that!

 

[Axeanda45]

You're right and I apologize. A moment of weakness.

Here it is, nice and easy: Yeah, we have a natural, God-given right to self-protection/defense which is enshrined in the Constitution. Truly, you are correct in that this right cannot be taken from us, in the theoretical sense. Reality is such, however, that it HAS been taken from us and we're fighting to get it back. However, as I noted, it takes the votes of the sheep to do this. If you alienate the sheep by prancing about the park with an AK, what do you think their response is gonna be? You don't have to like it but that's the reality.

I don't mind pushing the sheep a bit, maybe by what I consider more reasonable open carry. Let 'em see I'm a normal, law-abiding, friendly businessman who poses no threat to them. Now which scenario do you suppose goes farther in persuading the sheep: wearing a speedo and bandanna and carrying an AK thru the mall, or just projecting a "normal" demeanor, dressed appropriately while shopping quietly with my wife?

Now, my reference is to legal carry. I'm as radical about my right to protect myself and my family as the next guy so you can draw your own conclusions about whether I have carried or would carry were the gov't tell me I could not. Personally, I would just as soon stay out of jail if I can manage it, so I prefer to make the sheep comfortable as we educate them through thoughtful means. You can scream and holler all you want about your rights, but a thinking person recognizes the situation for what it really is and uses appropriate methods to change it.

My last post on this thread. If this rational argument doesn't persuade you, I give up.

Finally!!!

I concede, you win. You did this by speaking rationally, making good, reasonable comments and arguments, and not attacking anyone, bravo sir! I agree with all your post too. I thank you for the courtesy you showed .

I too, am done with this particular thread.

 

[RussP]

I too, am done with this particular thread.

Before you go, do you recognize these words?

That is incorrect, the Constitution is the final authority, not the supreme court. The second amendment says "Shall not be infringed" There is NO getting past that statement, period, the supreme court has been wrong before, are you going to go by everything they say, every time they say it? There are some things that positively cannot be disputed and explained away, no matter who is arguing it, be the supreme court or any other person/group. If the supreme court said that all guns are now outlawed and you have to turn them in, are they right?

So....... All of you are telling me you follow ALL LAWS 100% and never, ever break any of them? You are saying You would follow any and all laws that may come in the future? Regardless of how unconstitutional they are? Enjoy your slavery, as you have just proven you will never fight back.
My line in the sand has been crossed many moons ago. ALL LAWS that have anything whatsoever to do with firearms are 100% UNCONSTITUTIONAL and I only obey the ones that I DECIDE to, not because they are the so called "law", but because they are merely inconveniences at the time, and not worth the trouble enough to have to kill someone and go to prison or be killed myself.
I answered the original question truthfully,{deleted per TOS--CH} Can I die defending that constitution? Yes, but I will die a free man. Something to think about, If I am willing to die for something I took a non-expiring oath to defend, that means I will kill for it too. Can you say that? Or are you going to go back to hiding behind "its the law" and never stand up for yourself?

I have explained myself already, any law that does not line up with the Constitution is null and void.
Can I get in trouble/arrested/killed over those false so-called laws? Yes, but that is how I choose to live my life, as a free man, a true American, an Actual Patriot.

I would not be breaking any laws that stand up to constitutional scrutiny. They would be the ones that would be in the wrong by trying to enforce unconstitutional laws. I took an oath to that same constitution, and it did not have an expiration date. It is way past time for the citizens of this country to stand up for themselves and say NO MORE!!!! Grow a pair people!

I follow laws that are unconstitutional when I have the desire to. When circumstances would be to my advantage and I agree to abide by them for my own purposes/convenience.
When it comes to my own home/property, they can kiss my ............

Old enough to have been in/associated with the US military for close to 30 yrs of my adult life.

You get rugburn by not standing up for yourselves and following every little nuance of stupid, dangerous laws without question. Grow a pair and live like free Americans!

You ALL have failed to consider the context of this series of posts, that is .... AT YOUR HOME. I cannot be "stopped" at my own home by someone who does not have my permission to be there. Anyone who comes onto my property IS TRESPASSING no matter if I tell them to leave or not, UNTIL I give them permission to be there. The ONLY exception to that is if an officer has a valid search warrant or follows a fleeing suspect. Private property is just that, private. It is NOT semi-public just because I havent fenced it off and put up signs.

Chip on my shoulder????? At least i dont have rugburns on my knees like it seems most of you do.
The Founding Fathers would laugh in your face if you told them they had to tell a cop they were armed on their own property.
What has happened to this country? All these people who have NO CLUE what they have lost. Makes me sad to think what is coming and how hardly anyone is left to fight for what is right.
As for me, I will die a free man. {deleted-sabalo}

 

[SFC Stu]

I wouldn't have painted the tip orange. But, I would carry it if I felt like it.

 

[utimmer43]

"It is OUR complacency that has got us to where we are today, with such a negative attitude toward guns. We hide our guns from the public so as not to scare them. Our children can't even utter the word "gun" in some schools at the risk of being expelled. The more we try to play nice by their rules, the more restrictive their rules get. THAT is how the 2A could ultimately be repealed".
( I copied that from another thread on this forum )

As the author of that quote, allow me to put it in the proper context. I posted that remark in the thread regarding the Cleveland Heights PD OC incident (I'm sure most everyone here is familiar). That person was carrying a holstered pistol on his hip, wearing normal "street attire". A far cry from an orange A-K, boots, camo, skull cap, etc. No one is arguing the legality in either case, so that plays no part in my opinion. In both incidents, the subject may or may not have been seeking confrontation. That too, to me, is irrelevant. The point of my statement that you have quoted is that by being complacent, WE (meaning the collective past 100 years or so of gun owners) are responsible for today's anti-gun mentality. As such, it is now incredibly frustrating to me that a fellow can't walk around in the park carrying an A-K without getting a second look, or walk down the street while OCing without being harassed by police who do not understand the laws they uphold.

HOWEVER, that being said, I think this guy is a blooming idiot who certainly did nothing to help our cause. Even if everything he did was completely legal, it certainly did not win the minds of the on-the-fence crowd. Something a 2A activist must realize is that we have become this restricted over the course of 100 years or so. Scaring other park-goers and getting some face time at 5 o'clock sure as hell isn't going to reverse those restrictions. Furthermore, any time you expect (and even when you don't) to make the news, you have to keep the media spin in mind. Were the reporters inaccurate? Sure they were. Does it matter? Not really, because their label of a "sawed off, stock removed, altered assault weapon" is now stuck in the minds of the viewers. We DO need to at least be mindful of what the 'bimbo on the newscast" might say, because to the uninformed public, that bimbo speaks nothing but the truth. Not all publicity is good publicity. I liken it to a trucking company getting free TV advertising by being involved in a 10 vehicle pile-up. Sometimes there are just better ways of going about things.

Something else I said in that same post is

"I'm not saying we don't still need to be cordial and personable. By all means we must remain polite and non-belligerent. This is the way to inform the uninformed, and to promote 2A. I have actually thought about doing something like this (an "OC walk"), except that I would print out a pamphlet with a couple facts/ laws/ quotes/ stats/ etc. and take a walk around the city, OCing. Anyone who inquires would get a smile and a pamphlet and hopefully a nice 5-10 minute conversation."

Perhaps he was not belligerent, but his demeanor did not paint him as cordial and personable. Again, it sickens me that ones appearance even matters, but it is what it is. Just as the left has stolen our rights from us one small step at a time, we must regain them in the same fashion. OC trash pick-ups and OC picnics are shown much more favorably in the news and are much more informative to the passing public.

 

[maybejim]

OK, lemme make it real simple for you: you're a freakin' lamebrain if you don't realize that there are responsibilities that go along with rights. So, we have a responsibility to not cause undue dismay to the sheep, for a variety of reasons. The most paramount one is THEY MIGHT VOTE YOUR RIGHT TO CARRY OUT OF EXISTENCE. Plain enough? Sheesh...:to_pick_ones_nose:

If they can "vote your right to carry out of existence" it wasn't a right, or they are way out of line and we are not a free country. At some point we have to stop bending over for the hoplophobes. I don't open carry even when in Idaho where it is perfectly legal for a variety of reasons the least of which is causing undue dismay to some moron.

 

[maybejim]

I see multiple quotes Axeanda45 without comment. I'm not sure what the point is. I have seen few that I would disagree with. Perhaps those quoting need to explain what they are trying to say.

 

[PX4storm]

If I drive around town in a yellow ferrari and obey all the traffic laws am I trying to get arrested? Maybe there should be limits on how fast cars can go and how fast they look.:sarcastic:

Dam good point .. .. ..

I was once asked if I had any loaded guns in my house ? I said: "YES"

I was then asked if I expected trouble ? I said: "NO"

I was then asked why I needed a loaded gun ? I said: "it useless if it's not loaded and I also have fire extinguishers in the house, they're loaded too, and I am not expecting a fire"

 

[CCW357]

this is just plain dumb.. Paint the end of the barrell Orange to look like an airsoft, you are just pushing the limits... honestly, believe you are an anti firearm person, this is the kind of crap that The Brrady bunch folks would use this to undermine the 2nd Amendment. You have to be young and, One day you will grow up and realise what This Country is all about. I have countless friends that have lost there lives defending our Country, and you want to walk around like a Jackass and taunt the Police..And intimidate people who see you carying it. Yes thats your right, by law.. Nuff said....

 

[RussP]

I see multiple quotes Axeanda45 without comment. I'm not sure what the point is. I have seen few that I would disagree with. Perhaps those quoting need to explain what they are trying to say.

Just information.

Which do you disagree with?

 

[maybejim]

Just information.

Which do you disagree with?

Just a quick glance through (the discussion seems to have deteriorated to personalities), I didn't see any (from Axeanda45) . I have to admit that I haven't read every word.

 

[Nanuk]

Kwik had an agenda. He chose to carry a gun guaranteed to make a statement and instigate a confrontation. Most cops are not gun experts and have no idea that there are such things AK-47 or AR pistols In some states that is called brandishing and will lose your permit faster than a cop on a donut.

Just because you carry a gun does not mean that you can walk down every dark alley you pass. A little common sense goes a long way. :to_pick_ones_nose:

 

[SFC Stu]

I would not have painted the tip orange. I hope that the Police would also learn something here.

 

[Mountaingoat61]

A bit of grandstanding, just to see what he could get by with is what I see here. Just because something is legal doesn't mean it's right.... abortion, being a democrat/liberal, etc. ;-) Some common sense comes in play here. It's legal to open carry in Idaho, where I live, yet I've never seen anyone actually do it. I wouldn't open carry without a conceal permit, just to save any hassles. Open yourself up for a problem, you're gonna get it, whether you're doing anything illegal or not. Common sense, man, common sense.

 

[oldphart]

I went to the Tennessee State Radnor Lake State Park 12/20/2009 to take in some nature and get some exercise. I dressed in boots, blue jeans, t-shirt, vest, and an old military issue gore-tex woodland camo jacket. I carried my new Romanian Draco AK pistol loaded with 31 123 grain FMJ ammunition from Walmart. I arrived at approximately 3:30 pm and with the pistol slung on my back I started my walk. It was mostly uneventful. I saw no deer and passed maybe 30 hikers. As I reached the end of the trail I made sure no one was close by and shifted the ak-47 pistol to the front of my body. I reached the end of the trail and turned onto the roadway where I saw the first ranger of the day. He asked me if it was an airsoft and I said no it was an AK-47 type pistol. He looked at me strangely and asked to see my permit. I showed my Tennessee handgun carry permit. He asked where I parked and I told him. He said I could keep walking I kept walking as he called someone. By the time I reached my car the ranger was no where in sight as I walk quickly. However, another ranger vehicle pulled in the parking lot and a ranger jumped out with a shotgun pointed at me and yelled at me to stay still and put the weapon on the ground. After I put the weapon down he told me to move away which I did. He then told me to put my face on the ground and my arms on my head. I complied. I think he had a gun trained on me the whole time, but I couldn’t see. He searched me quickly and put my AK into the truck. This particular ranger has seen me before and has asked to see my TN handgun carry permit. He asked to see the permit again and asked for my driver license. I told him I would not give him my license, but he could see the permit.

Three Nashville metro cop cars showed up pretty quickly. They talked among themselves for about an hour and then a cop pulled out a citation for arrest. It said I was being arrested for 39-17-1311 unlawful possession of a weapon. He asked me to sign and I told him I wanted to speak with his supervisor. He said okay, but that it would take a long time and he just wanted to cite and release me for my convenience (yeah right). I asked what part of 39-17-1311 I violated he said I couldn’t carry a rifle. I told him my firearm was classified as a pistol. It has no stock and never had a stock. I also pointed out that it has an 11.5” barrel with complies with the length of a handgun definition in Tennessee. He said it looks like I had cut the stock off and another said they had never heard of a 7.62x39 handgun. It took about another ½ hour for the sergeant to show up. In the meantime one of the original cops left, another park ranger came and left and two more cops showed up. The sergeant showed and I tried to explain that the firearm was a handgun. I also told him if they were going to arrest me to just take me in front of the magistrate right away. They spent another ½ hour asking me if I had a form 1, that the ATF classifies my pistol as a rifle, and they had never seen an AK pistol before. Finally they told me they had gotten in touch with the manufacturer and the manufacturer said it indeed was a pistol. I highly doubt that, but that is what they told me. They released the handcuffs, and gave me back my magazine, ammo, and pistol.

I think they handled it as well as could be expected. I felt the cop who was trying to charge me with a violation of 39-17-1311 had no basis for the charge.


Link Removed


Link Removed


Picture of park sign
Link Removed
Even though park sign says no firearms carry permit holders may carry due to a law which was passed this summer. The law stated that the parks didn’t have to change the signs.

I carried a Romanian draco ak-47 pistol I purchased new from classic arms in NC and which was transferred to be by a FFL in Nashville on 12/16/2009. I carried it on an urban ert two point sling using the rear grip screw as the second attachment point.

Transcipt 12-20-2009
Here is a link to download
Approximately 4:00pm
This is an audio recording of the first ranger I met. He was approximately 50 yards west of the lake trail exit point. He ended his conversation with another man as I approached.
28:40 is when the audio begins with the ranger (R).
Me: It’s a chilly one today.
R: Hey, bud.
Me: Yeah?
R: Airsoft?
Me: No, it’s a handgun. You can touch it.
R: Why do you have that? Do you have a permit?
Me: Here you go. (I showed him my valid Tennessee Handgun Carry Permit)
R: Why do you have that?
Me: Because it’s legal to carry in the park.
R: Technically that’s not a handgun.
Me: Yeah it is.
R: No it’s not.
Me: Yeah it is.
R: No.
Me: Uh huh, I guarantee it. It’s a handgun. It’s never had a butt stockattached and and it’s 11.5” long.
R: Which side are you parked in?
Me: Uh, the one down the road. (pointing)
R: Okay, I mean technicaly it’s legal, but I don’t see why you need that out here.
Me: I was told by another ranger you had a lot of poachers and stuff out here.
R: No.
Me: Really?
R: Hold on a second. Let me check this. I’m pretty sure an AK47 is not a handgun
Me: How’s it going? (I spoke to a man passing by who was looking at us)
Man: That’s not real is it?
Me: Yeah, AK47, 7.62x39, 31 rounds.
Me: I’m going to record you. I’m recording right now.
Me: Which side of the road are we supposed to walk on over here anyway? This side right? Bikes on that side right? As long as they don’t run you over.
Me: I knew I would run into a ranger one of these times.
R: Well, the orange threw me off.
Me: Yeah, it’s a custom orange color paint job.
R: Makes phone call.
Me: Well, it’s a handgun. Are you checking on me or do you want me to keep on going?
R: keep going.
Me: You guys can meet me at the end if you have any questions. I’m in a little black Honda Civic.

I live in Ohio 6 months of the year. We have open and concealed carry. I carry all the time. I am very pro Second Amendment. In fact I am an NRA pistol instructor and teach the Ohio CHL calss

In the summer I work out in Yellowstone NP and I hike all over the place. I carry when I hike outside the park. This year, because of the law changes, I will be carrying inside the park.

I carry and no one knows it. I pack a full sized 1911 and no one knows it. NO ONE KNOWS IT! NO ONE KNOWS IT!

I'm sorry, but, if you are carrying an exposed AK47 lookalike when you are hiking, you are just trying to force a confrontation. You set out to be confrontational and you got what you wanted. You wanted to be the center of attention and shock people. Actions like this hurt us more than the Brady Anti Gun Freaks do. It makes us all look like lunatics. Every time this happens people start donating to the Brady Bunch and I have to write more checks to the NRA to counter it. I always use examples like this to convince my students to not act like this. Please stop it.

 

[oldphart]

I was banned from a few forums because I painted the muzzle nut of the handgun orange and posted pictures of it. So, I don't mention it or post pics. It isn't illegal.
Are you for or against the second Amendment. If you support the Second Amendment you shouldn't be advocating infringing on my right to keep and bear arms.

No, it isn't illegal, it is just mind numblingly stupid and irresponsible. A cop would assume you are a scum bag because he/she would have to assume you did it to trick a cop into thinking it was a toy gun so you get the drop on them.

This is all a game to you. To them it's life or death. You are an embarrassment to us all.

People like you are the best friends the anti gun freaks have.

Also, if a cop had shot him under conditions that could have been questionable, that orange tip would have pushed the jury to the cops corner.

 

[Nanuk]

The last time we had someone open carry a what looked like a rifle, he got in a confronation with a citizen and a shootout with the local cops and state patrol.He lost very quickly.

 

[Unfettered Might]

The last time we had someone open carry a what looked like a rifle, he got in a confronation with a citizen and a shootout with the local cops and state patrol.He lost very quickly.

Seems unlikely. What state and county did it happen in?

 

[utimmer43]

The last time we had someone open carry a what looked like a rifle, he got in a confrontation with a citizen and a shootout with the local cops and state patrol.He lost very quickly.

WOW! Way to leave out all the major details and any references.

 

[Glock Fan]

The last time we had someone open carry a what looked like a rifle, he got in a confronation with a citizen and a shootout with the local cops and state patrol.He lost very quickly.

Sounds like a case of a "trigger happy" citizen and some very incompetent LEO. Did this happen in "Mayberry" by any chance, and was "Deputy Barney Fife" the first LEO to arrive on scene?

I'm sure many of us would appreciate if you could provide more details of this incident, if indeed it happened somewhere in the U.S.



gf