Most Cops are Good?

[Firefighterchen]

It would appear the cop haters can't seem to get their statistics right. Even when both come from the same site.

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Who's statistics are you saying are incorrect?

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[Firefighterchen]

Have you been in the military? I only ask because it makes the difference is easier to explain/understand if thought of in that light.
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I might think my Commanding Officer is a jackhole. I will therefore not respect him as an individual. If he tries to play captain nice guy at a portcall and buy a round of drinks I would decline that offer since it has nothing to do with the job. I would not associate from him away from work. He would not get invited to a BBQ. But when it comes to his decisions (lawful orders, operational plans etc.) whatever as the captain of the ship I follow those. Regardless of the fact that he might be an idiot or I might not agree with his plans, as the guy that has been given that responsibility you can't pick and choose which orders to follow or the system fails. As long as they are lawful orders, do not infringe on any of the crews rights, or compromise their safety, you just bear with it because of the respect due the position of Captain of the ship. When idiot captains fail miserably at their job, they are held accountable. Justice will eventually be served.
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As this applies to cops, if you get to pick and choose which laws you will follow, or which cops you will pull over for when they hit the blue lights, the system fails. Think of it as respecting the fact that when the cop behind you flips on the blue lights, you are respecting the fact that he has the authority to pull you over based on his position. If what he pulled you over for was bogus, you can fight it in court, but you can't (as a law abiding person) just decide that you did nothing wrong and not stop. That is what I mean by respecting the position without respecting the person. Two entirely different forms of respect.

I don't think authority should be synonymous with respect either. I chose to follow orders for a decade from superiors in the fire department. It's my choice to pull over if he wants me to, it's my choice to be kind, but it's their choice to earn respect.

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[billt]

That's ok, I used to know a Turk who claimed the Armenian genocide involved Armenians murdering hundreds of thousands of Turks...

I know a guy who worries about the Asteroid hitting, Solar Flares screwing up the power grid, and Tin whiskers shorting out the nations GPS System.

 

[S&W645]

It's a bit hard to see in the video because of the poor quality, (just once I'd like to see a criminal act shot with a high resolution camera, that didn't have the lens cleaned with Vaseline), but it appears you can see Taser wires extended as the guy is running away. This would indicate the Taser had already been fired. As far as I know Tasers are a one shot deal. They're not "magazine fed". So even if he took the Taser from the cop after it had been fired, it was totally useless at that point, and a non threat.

Not entirely correct in your last statement. Many police Tasers can be used after the cartridge is fired. They do have to be in direct contact though to be used in that mode. But in a typical gov't we can have and you can't, civilian models are limited to 15" while police/gov't models are 35' for the cartridge use.

 

[Deanimator]

I know a guy who worries about the Asteroid hitting, Solar Flares screwing up the power grid, and Tin whiskers shorting out the nations GPS System.

And the number of documented criminal acts by police which you've refuted is stil... ***ZERO***.

Changing the subject doesn't change the facts... no matter how much you and Suleyman wish that wasn't the case.

 

[whodat2710]

I don't think authority should be synonymous with respect either. I chose to follow orders for a decade from superiors in the fire department. It's my choice to pull over if he wants me to, it's my choice to be kind, but it's their choice to earn respect.

I don't think your message here is clear. Yes it is your choice to pull over, but you also know that not pulling over will have consequences. Those consequences stem from the "respect" due the "authority" of that cop, whether or not he s a good or bad cop. It has nothing to do with the guy behind the wheel.

 

[Firefighterchen]

I don't think your message here is clear. Yes it is your choice to pull over, but you also know that not pulling over will have consequences. Those consequences stem from the "respect" due the "authority" of that cop, whether or not he s a good or bad cop. It has nothing to do with the guy behind the wheel.

Nope, I'm being clear as mud. I do not respect authority, I understand authority. If a cop wants me to pull over and I believe they are a cop, I'll pull over to avoid being beaten/tazed/shot (if you believe that is respect, then we will never see eye to eye). He can't search my vehicle, I won't answer any questions, I'll say the least information that's needed for driving, they can tell me why they pulled me over and give me a ticket. I will be kind but be indifferent of them. If they earn respect, they will get it. They haven't earned any respect by turning on some lights. They are wasting my time anyways, so the faster it's over the better.

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[NavyLCDR]

I don't think your message here is clear. Yes it is your choice to pull over, but you also know that not pulling over will have consequences. Those consequences stem from the "respect" due the "authority" of that cop, whether or not he s a good or bad cop.

100% B.S. The consequences of not pulling over for the blue lights stem from statutes. Disobey the statute and you are subject to the punishment specified in the statute. It has nothing to do with respecting any authority. Once the subject stops for the blue lights, the subject is free to be as "disrespectful" as they desire to the police officer - and there should be no consequences of such "disrespect" so long as the subject does not violate any laws. For example, officer asks, "Do you know why I stopped you today?" Subject answers, "Because you are white pig and I am a black man?" Most people would consider that to be disrespectful, but no law is violated, therefore the officer has no LEGAL authority to enforce consequences for the disrespect - but the bad cops will. And the really bad cops will enforce consequences on those who are not disrespectful to them because of people in the past have been.

 

[whodat2710]

100% B.S. The consequences of not pulling over for the blue lights stem from statutes. Disobey the statute and you are subject to the punishment specified in the statute. It has nothing to do with respecting any authority. Once the subject stops for the blue lights, the subject is free to be as "disrespectful" as they desire to the police officer - and there should be no consequences of such "disrespect" so long as the subject does not violate any laws. For example, officer asks, "Do you know why I stopped you today?" Subject answers, "Because you are white pig and I am a black man?" Most people would consider that to be disrespectful, but no law is violated, therefore the officer has no LEGAL authority to enforce consequences for the disrespect - but the bad cops will. And the really bad cops will enforce consequences on those who are not disrespectful to them because of people in the past have been.

Navy, I agree with your premise. You and I both know there are cops who would enjoy dealing with that situation with a smile, knowing they would have a cool story to tell back at the station, and some that would become defensive, offensive or even violent in their response. The ones that broke a law during their response, or violated the rights of the person would be "bad" cops. Conversely, if that cop responded by obeying the letter of the law, no matter how antiquated or obscure, it would be an appropriate response to that attitude. As long as the cop broke no laws he would also be justified in being disrespectful to a disrespectful person as a response. That is not the preferred tactic since it tends to escalate rather than de-escalate the situation. In most instances you would see an effort to defuse the situation.
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That said, respecting the statute that gives the cop the authority to pull you over is respecting that cops authority under the statute. That is positional respect as opposed to personal respect. That is all I was saying.
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I would also point out that even if the cop chose the wrong path, broke the law and violated the rights of the person, that does not necessarily reflect the other cops in that precinct, town, city, county. or state. It is a personal responsibility that, when it comes to light, should be dealt with against that cop. Charleston did it right. That is not who we are, that is not how we operate, you are fired and we are turning the investigation over to someone with no skin in the game. We are also putting in place cameras that will hopefully prevent anything like this in the future. If you can find fault with that, oh well. To say that because of this incident "all cops are bad" or anything of that sort is just paranoid BS.
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It is like finding out the guy cooking burgers at your fast food restaurant has been spitting on the burgers. You don't shut down the burger joint, you fire the a$$hole and move on.

 

[S&W645]

There is respect and there is authority. It doesn't mean they are the same and it also doesn't mean all laws are lawful. Respect is earned and if you have to demand it, you haven't earned it or deserve it. That is the case with the current POTUS. He tries to demand it but he has definitely not earned it. POTUS used to be a "respected" position just because a person had been elected to it. Because under military rules, the POTUS must be respected even if it is unearned. Same sort of things apply to the police. They in many cases have the attitude that you have to respect them no matter what. And you must obey them no matter what. Many have a do as we say, not as we do attitude. But yet they become indignant if they get stopped while off duty for violating a traffic law. And before calling me a cop hater, I've had both good and bad interactions with the police. I also disagree with the Florida law that says you can't use deadly force on them breaking into your home at 0dark30 with no knock warrants. They do make mistakes and try serving them on wrong addresses but expect no resistance to their invasion of private property.

 

[whodat2710]

 

[ArmyCW4]

And???

Must be a lecture point in the video past the same more, same more. Please dazzle me.

 

[billt]

Not entirely correct in your last statement. Many police Tasers can be used after the cartridge is fired. They do have to be in direct contact though to be used in that mode. But in a typical gov't we can have and you can't, civilian models are limited to 15" while police/gov't models are 35' for the cartridge use.

So after they're fired they still have "Stun Gun" capabilities?

 

[billt]

Who's statistics are you saying are incorrect?

I don't know, you tell me? One thing's for sure, they both can't be right.

 

[billt]

Changing the subject doesn't change the facts.

I'm not changing the subject. I'm saying the subject isn't worth worrying about. But hey, whatever keeps you up at night.

 

[Axeanda45]

re·spect
rəˈspekt/
noun
noun: respect

1.
a feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements.
"the director had a lot of respect for Douglas as an actor"
synonyms: esteem, regard, high opinion, admiration, reverence, deference, honor
"the respect due to a great artist"
antonyms: contempt
the state of being admired or respected.
"his first chance in over fifteen years to regain respect in the business"
due regard for the feelings, wishes, rights, or traditions of others.
plural noun: respects
"respect for human rights"
synonyms: due regard, politeness, courtesy, civility, deference
"he spoke to her with respect"
antonyms: disrespect
a person's polite greetings.
plural noun: respects
"give my respects to your parents"
2.
a particular aspect, point, or detail.
"the government's record in this respect is a mixed one"
synonyms: aspect, regard, facet, feature, way, sense, particular, point, detail
"the report was accurate in every respect"

verb
verb: respect; 3rd person present: respects; past tense: respected; past participle: respected; gerund or present participle: respecting

1.
admire (someone or something) deeply, as a result of their abilities, qualities, or achievements.
"she was respected by everyone she worked with"
synonyms: esteem, admire, think highly of, have a high opinion of, hold in high regard, hold in (high) esteem, look up to, revere, reverence, honor
"she is highly respected in the book industry"



authority
noun au·thor·i·ty \ə-ˈthär-ə-tē, ȯ-, -ˈthȯr-\

: the power to give orders or make decisions : the power or right to direct or control someone or something

: the confident quality of someone who knows a lot about something or who is respected or obeyed by other people

: a quality that makes something seem true or real


NOT THE SAME THING.......

Someone can have "authority" and at the same time I acknowledge (and even while submitting to it) they have that authority, I can have ZERO "respect" for that "authority".......

 

[Axeanda45]

Badgefluffers think that anyone that stands up for themselves and their rights hate everyone with a badge....

If you are a cop, dont eff with my rights, and we will get along just fine...... Treat me the same way you want others to treat your wife/son/daughter/mom/etc...., and there wont be any problems or worries about video and audio releases..... (I released some damning audio of some local cops harraassing me once... they have left me alone since... funny how that works) Respect works both ways...

 

[Firefighterchen]

I don't know, you tell me? One thing's for sure, they both can't be right.

Oh, nevermind misread what you wrote. I get it now...

But to answer your question (though if you read your links you would have seen within the first paragraph of your second link)...

" Police Killings Grossly Underreported

We previously reported that Americans are*9 times more likely*to be killed by a*police officer*than a*terrorist.

But it turns out that our numbers were incorrect …"

Not sure how this makes those articles cop haters...they also talk about how many deer kill people...does that make it deer haters too? Appliance haters?

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[BluesStringer]

Way back when, I drove school bus for a Head Start program in Long Beach, CA. Kids were like four and five years old. One day the kid sitting behind me starts yelling, "Tom! Tom! There's an oddadocter!" A what, I inquired. "An oddadocter!" This kind of exchange went on until I pulled up in front of his house where Mom was waiting, and the kid jumped out saying he'd just seen an "oddadocter." Mom says that's nice Honey, what color was it? Kid says, "Brue." Curiosity got the better of me and I rolled down my window to ask Mom what a "brue oddadocter" was. She said, "He means a blue helicopter. He loves anything that flies and always gets excited when he sees a plane or helicopter, he just can't say the words right." We laughed about it and I went on my way.

Whodat reminds me of that little kid with this "respect" thing. What he's trying to say is that out of obedience/submission/fear/whatever, when people see the blue lights, they usually pull over. It has nothing to do with "respect" though, at least not for anyone who sincerely believes they haven't given a valid reason for a cop to light 'em up. Rather than "respecting" the authority, most people feel imposed upon, and hundreds of stops per day across this country are imposed upon people for the most trivial of rationales, that to "respect" either the person or the position imposing fines, wasting your time on victimless trivialities and maybe approaching you with the attitude of they'll find something to "legally" justify this stop if the subject gets a little mouthy or whatever, is to "respect" your own status as something less than a free man or woman, which obviously makes no sense whatsoever.

What whodat argues (ad nauseum) is "respect" is nothing more than obedience and submission to (hopefully) avoid expensive and possibly injurious encounters with power-drunk bullies, and I'd venture to say that's nearly always true in cases where you're not speeding or weaving in and out of your lane and/or traffic or actually drawing attention to yourself in other illegal ways. Who the heck "respects" a person or their position that is in the act of subjugating them under a constant implied threat of force?

Whodat just can't say the words right.

Blues

 

[billt]

Not sure how this makes those articles cop haters......

I never said the articles were written by "cop haters". The articles were conflicting, and most likely inaccurate. And, not worth worrying about. Much like dying in a plain crash, or being killed by a terrorist. Or on the flip side, winning the lottery.