Michael Brown

[Courtney.cj.chen]

And there is no such thing as a Class 3 firearm.

Can you elaborate?

 

[Courtney.cj.chen]

Mcculloch- when giving a breakdown of his report- stated the following about the initial witnesses that went to the media right after the shooting and stayed that m brown was shot in the back. They gave the testimony. Then- when the autopsy report was released. They either 1) recanted and changed their testimony or 2) admitted they did not see it.

Sean Hannity brought up an obvious point last night- which is that these witnesses committed perjury. If they were sworn in- then they did commit perjury. Im wondering if these business owners can make these witnesses civilly liable for some of the damages incurred due to 1) slander of wilson which 2) directly/indirectly caused their business(Es) to be damaged.

 

[ET]

Everyone wanting the blood of a cop is evident by the thousands of protesters all over the country. Everyone on the side of this thug, is also a thug... wanting to get over.. proof is the mentality of those in Ferguson.. those 61 people who live there that were arresting in the commission of a riot, arson, and theft are all those typical people of color who just want to get over.... why is it so hard to live with the notion that this Black kid ( 6'5 300 lbs, )was an arrogant bully... all the testimony points to him being a low life... his felony attack on a police officer, as the physical evidence proves was enough for him to be arrested, let alone the robbery of the quick mart... why are so many people painting this kid as a good guy.... Where is the evidence of that??? Once Brown threw a punch in the car, Wilson was on the receiving end of a felon assault.
the Brown family is so stupid that Michael browns best asset was his size.. why wasn't he cramming for college entrance in a football scholarship program... the reason is, he was a dumb bully , a thief, a thug, and a gross underachiever, with no aspirations towards the better future of getting out of Ferguson..
The evidence of racism could not be more prevalent in this black culture, then the proof of their action when the world is always pushing back against their morals and ethics.. All the preachers and community leaders that just want the blood of( the Man) Officer Wilson... The only injustice here was the injustice put on Officer Wilson by the black community... they lost this one, they lost Trayvon Martin, Bill Cosby is finally getting what he deserves, and so is OJ Simpson and the thousands and thousand that fill the jails and penitentiaries of this country...They want respect???? that is a joke... these violent protest just burry them deeper into the culture backwash they, themselves produce... who wants to support, such a misguided group of individuals... All they want to do is get over.... they " think the world is out to get them, and even in the face of all the evidence, they still don't get it... does anyone actually think that Michael brown was incapable of doing the things the evidence supports... and where is the evidence that Officer Wilson was a rogue cop looking to shoot a kid.. For me the only tears I shed is for the miscarriage of justice that Officer Wilson has endured in doing his job...
IM just fed up with this Black culture proclaiming they are victims.... they are the problem.......not the society that most of us subscribe too as being the best in the world...our laws and our do process is better then anywhere in the world... and where are the parents of the protestors??? would any sane person allow their son or daughter to go into an area where the potential for anything, could happen... the government should have declared marshal law and anyone caught in an area where arson, looting, and destruction was eviden,t should have been arrested as a conspirator...too many thugs in Ferguson.. too many hoping for the chance to rob the liquor store... one quote from a Ferguson citizen.. " lets burn this Morher---- down.... MY question is why???? what did the merchants do to cause citizen of the community to destroy their own community... its just a stupid scenario caused by very stupid people... where is a logic...?? one black official said the system is broken... the only thing that is broken, is the idea that black people can break the law at will, because they are black...

 

[BC1]

Just guessing here but if one trains 500x more with a gun than without, it probably feels like the only option when shtf.

Sent from my XT557 using Tapatalk 2

Actually we teach the complete opposite in PP class. This is the last option. A tool of last resort. Only used when all else fails. We focus on awareness, avoidance, deterrence, de-escalation and retreat as the primary methods of defense. When one uses a gun in self defense, even if 100% legal it will likely ruin their life.

 

[BC1]

My understanding was that the officer had pulled his car perpendicular across both lanes to block Brown and keep traffic out of harms way. He probably was not able to accelerate and get out. Did he put himself in a bad situation? Possibly but he had very little time to assess the situation and react.

He only needs to jump the car about 10 feet in either direction.

 

[BC1]

Although this all happened very quickly- Edit- in my opinion- in small low income and largely black population towns- they very quickly congregate around any commotion. And they don't do it at a distance. They do it at a rather close proximity. Him putting that car in gear would've surely put a civilian in jeopardy.

As for Blues' mentioning ferguson being a very racist and corrupt town. You have no idea what ferguson is except for what reporters have depicted it as. It is a largely black town- and a small town on the border of the edge of northern St. Louis county. Is it a racist town? Yes. But the racism stems largely and very vocally from its residents. That's the irony in St. Louis. I have never heard a white person. In any socioeconomic class- and in any neighborhood- call a black person a racial slur to their face in an argument. However I have LOST COUNT of the times that I have heard blacks openly call whites crackers and white trash. And while grocery shopping in the China town part of St. Louis- I've seen blacks use "chink" countless times whenever some conflict has been engaged. Yes. Racism exists.

And corrupt? Ferguson is a small town- that St. Louis county pd does not cover. However county pd has eaten up many small towns and in turn, have taken the towns good cops on board. St. Louis county, city and st. Charles pd- (and mo state trooper) are the largest companies and the ones that provide the best benefits. Ferguson has only a few black officers bc why work in small town pd when you can make more, get better benefits and a pension and belong to a union (with legal representation) - at a larger pd.

Putting the car in gear would not put anyone in jeopardy. If someone is reaching for your gun... trying to shoot you with your gun, everyone is already in jeopardy. Public safety is at risk. You do what is necessary to get the perp away from the gun. It's considerably less dangerous to the public than 11 rounds of .40 cal.
.
Let's also not forget that MO was possibly THE most racist state in the country before and after the civil war. Rabid racism. The seeds of the civil war were sown in MO. Anyone remember "bleeding Kansas?" How about the border ruffians? The James brothers? It wasn't that long ago.

 

[BC1]

We have a problem in this country that only recently is being discussed publicly. We have a complete failure of black leaders to fix the problems prevalent in the black community. Being poor is no excuse for being a criminal or bad parent. Put a damn meal on the table. Take care of your kids, Keep him in the house and away from the gangs and drugs. Keep him close at night. Kick-out the thugs that come to your home. Help him with his homework. Make him aspire to college. Help him get there... lead him. Stop breaking the law yourself and set an example. Clean-up the damn place.
.
The breakdown of the family unit in black society is possibly the single biggest factor in the poverty, drugs, gangs and thuggery of the hood. The crimes rates are higher and that requires more police. More police equates to hatred and claims of racism. Instead of confronting the problems, the community blames others. Typical of human nature. We see it in politics and business every day. People generally look to blame others for their problems. Few accept responsibility. And then there's the cops. Like anything else there are good and bad. Same holds true for doctors, engineers, carpenters, plumbers, etc.

 

[BC1]

Not because I live there, no. Because I can read and can discern what stats show as-regards racism and corruption. I wasn't alluding to Wilson specifically, but to the stats I posted about, and your dismissal of the stats I provided, combined with your assertion that 150% of the population in Ferguson are criminals (that doesn't even make sense, you moron) was so brainless that I didn't see the point in replying to it.



How much of the transcripts have you read? Do you know that the "prosecutor" didn't even cross-examine Wilson? He just turned him loose to give his own self-serving narrative and didn't question a single sentence of it. Like I said in my last post, he never had any intentions of getting an indictment. He wasted the tax-payers money on a kangaroo court process that he never intended to get at any truth out of, because he had his truth before ever entering the room.

He sho' 'nuff picked apart the witnesses against Wilson though, which lead to the outcome you wanted, so don't get all high and mighty about the fact that I thought a different outcome was appropriate than the one you did just because you got the one you wanted.



Yeah, and you and the others got the same outcome the KKK was looking for, cupcake. I wasn't going to go there unless you did, but I knew it was coming from someone, so I was ready for it. Oh, and you got the same outcome that Mark Furman wanted too. Imagine that, one of the most racist cops ever to expose himself as such in the LAPD agrees with everything you've said, everything the "prosecutor" did, and didn't do, in the GJ hearings, and everything that Wilson did, but gee, to think there's any racism present in your side of the argument when no less than the KKK and Furman agree with you is such a stretch, huh? Pffft.



You are unbiased??? BWAHAHAHAHAHA! You either are too stupid to understand the words you read, or you actively refuse to acknowledge that you understand what I've said, even if you disagree with it. I didn't "automatically convict all cops as racist criminals," I said that "Ferguson is a cesspool of racism and police, court and general government corruption" based upon actual statistics that prove it to my satisfaction. I hardly just pulled it out of my ass because of my distrust of cops.



You really have no problem with a so-called "prosecutor" convening a GJ to attempt to establish probable cause to bring a charge, and then presenting the defense's side for the accused???? Can you cite another case where McCulloch presented all the evidence in a GJ proceeding? Can you cite another case where he failed to cross-examine the accused (which in and of itself is a nearly unheard-of circumstance for the accused to testify in a GJ), but went out of his way to discredit his own prosecution witnesses? When, in modern grand jury history, are you aware of a "prosecutor" failing to even recommend an indictment? And if he wasn't willing to recommend an indictment, why the Hell did he even take it to the GJ? He could've refused to bring a charge on his own and left the GJ completely out of it, except for the fact that he wanted the political cover to blame whatever happened on a bunch of innocent, but nonetheless anonymous, grand jurors.

But hey, who cares about all the irregularities in the prosecutor's processes. He got for you the result you wanted, so WTF, I'll just rail at Blues for recognizing and exposing the corruption in Ferguson. Pffft. Stick it where the sun don't shine.



That's the stankiest pile of bull excrement I've ever read in my life! You are now fluffing the prosecutor for completely bastardizing the system of government our founders put in place! Answer all the irregularities listed above before you try to BS the board with that crap again.



No you don't. You spew.

Blues

I noticed Sean Hannity and Greta kept having Fuhrman as a guest. I said the same thing to my wife... the most racist cop in history, the one who lied under oath, the one who introduced reasonable doubt in the OJ case. Then again it was Sean Insannity.

 

[BluesStringer]

Hmmm, some testimonies match each other AND the facts, others match each other and the Sharpton agenda, but not the facts. Gee, I don't know which one I will give credence to. Were the witnesses coached? Of course, on both sides. That happens for almost every witness in every proceeding in the country to one extent or another. Could the pro-DW be coached in a way that corroborates the forensic evidence and makes sense of it? Sure, which is why I said ALL witness testimony is suspect. When weighed against the forensics of the case, one is credible and one is not. How hard is that to comprehend?

What physical evidence are you even talking about? Is it something you've actually read the testimony about, or are you taking the word of a "prosecutor" who went into the proceedings with Wilson's defense in hand to present to the grand jury? Why on Earth would a potential defendant testify in front of a GJ if he wasn't pretty well assured that the "prosecutor" would present only the evidence favorable to him? I'm not as worried about Wilson and Witness #10 colluding to standardize their testimonies, I'm concerned that the "prosecutor" was involved in the same kind of thing, and I believe there is ample probable cause to suspect that.

In any case, if you've read any transcripts that lead you to believe that the physical evidence can only support Wilson's side of the argument, please cite it and allow me to take it into consideration. If all you're doing is parroting what McCulloch said at the presser though, save it, because that's nothing but prosecutorial fluffing, as per usual.

Blues

 

[mappow]

Once he attacked the LEO he is now a Felon. Sealed it for me. JMHO

 

[BC1]

I have a friend who taught law some years back. I remember a drill he did to illustrate how poor eyewitness testimony can be. While lecturing he would have a stranger walk-into class in the back or the room, proceed to the front of the room, grab a pocketbook and run. He would settle the class down and tell them this is an exercise. Who can describe the thief? Only a handful gave accurate descriptions.

 

[ET]

The grand jury used the physical evidence to corroborate the eye witness testimony.,.. meaning those who said Wilson shot MB in the back were not considered credible, actuall liable under the law in giving false witness in a federal investigation.. I hope all of these people get the maximum sentence for their interference in this probe.. If fo no other reason then for Darren Wilson who is paying the price for all of this false testimony... ... MB's blood in the car was physical evidence. 60 witness interviewed, 70 hours of testimony.. and hundreds of pieces of physical evidence. the jury knew up front that there were under the scrutiny of the law...and society. So they had to get it right....
These people would have turned violent no matter what the outcome... All the lairs who were out to crate an atmosphere of violence only added fuel to this situation... not one black official said anything that would remotely calm the efforts of so many to set up a riot situation... Ferguson is just another example of weak minded humans grabbing what ever they can to try to be recognized as a group of people to be respected... HAHA HA what a joke, if anything I've lost more respect for this group of people, that over the years have digressed in the minds of most other ethnic people...They have done nothing to elevate their worth in the eyes of society over the last 30 years.. Where are the progressive communities ?? all I ever see is once beautiful neighborhood, turned into Ghettos when these people move in... Ferguson is a toilet because the people who live their prey on the merchants and other citizen of that community... if you live in a cesspool you turn into crap...

 

[mojo risin]

I hope all of these people get the maximum sentence for their interference in this probe.

McCulloch has decided it was no big deal.

What do you make of that?

 

[S&W645]

I have a friend who taught law some years back. I remember a drill he did to illustrate how poor eyewitness testimony can be. While lecturing he would have a stranger walk-into class in the back or the room, proceed to the front of the room, grab a pocketbook and run. He would settle the class down and tell them this is an exercise. Who can describe the thief? Only a handful gave accurate descriptions.

Been there, done that, got the degree. Ours was in a Psych class for LEOs.

 

[S&W645]

McCulloch has decided it was no big deal.

What do you make of that?

He doesn't want to stir up troubles.

 

[S&W645]

Can you elaborate?

The firearm has no specific class. I can buy the same firearm from different sources and it is still an NFA Title II item. The yearly Tax that the seller pays is the only difference. A FFL Type 001 pays a SOT to sell the item. In the case of the Type 001 ( dealer ) it is a SOT Class 3. But you can go to a FFL Type 007 ( manufacturer ) who pays an SOT Class 2 and get the same firearm. Or you can go to an importer ( FFL Type 008 ) who pays an SOT Class 1 level tax and get it too. And to muddy the waters even more, the Type 007 and 008 can get reduced rates that take them down to the same cost as the SOT Class 3. The Special Occupancy Tax is just a stamp on a piece of paper that goes along with the FFL that allows them to deal in NFA Title II items.

These taxes must be paid in full on first engaging in business and thereafter on or before the first day of July. The current taxes are set out in the following table.

Special (Occupational) Tax Rates Under The NFA
Class of Taxpayer Annual Fee
1. Importer of Firearms (Including “Any Other Weapon”) $1000.00
2. Manufacturer of Firearms (Including “Any Other Weapon”) $1000.00
3. Dealer of Firearms (Including “Any Other Weapon”) $500.00
1. Importer of Firearms (Including “Any Other Weapon”) REDUCED* $500.00
2. Manufacturer of Firearms (Including “Any Other Weapon”) REDUCED* $500.00

REDUCED = Rates which apply to certain taxpayers whose total gross receipts in the last taxable year are less than $500,000

 

[S&W645]

What physical evidence are you even talking about? Is it something you've actually read the testimony about, or are you taking the word of a "prosecutor" who went into the proceedings with Wilson's defense in hand to present to the grand jury? Why on Earth would a potential defendant testify in front of a GJ if he wasn't pretty well assured that the "prosecutor" would present only the evidence favorable to him? I'm not as worried about Wilson and Witness #10 colluding to standardize their testimonies, I'm concerned that the "prosecutor" was involved in the same kind of thing, and I believe there is ample probable cause to suspect that.

In any case, if you've read any transcripts that lead you to believe that the physical evidence can only support Wilson's side of the argument, please cite it and allow me to take it into consideration. If all you're doing is parroting what McCulloch said at the presser though, save it, because that's nothing but prosecutorial fluffing, as per usual.

Blues

For you and all others here, here is what has been released all in one place. Ferguson shooting grand jury documents

 

[BluesStringer]

For you and all others here, here is what has been released all in one place. Ferguson shooting grand jury documents

Thanks, but I had the full .pdf from which all those separate files were culled since about 3:00 am Tuesday morning. It's more than 1500 pages in the .pdf file, so obviously I haven't read all of it (nor do I intend to) yet. I was asking whodat if he could cite the physical evidence that is so inconsistent with witness testimony as to render the witness testimony completely not credible. I wanted to know, and would still like to know, if he actually read it, or was just taking the "prosecutor's" word for it. To me, at this point, the "prosecutor" is anything but credible, so if that's whodat's source, I think it's fair to ask. Meanwhile, I'll keep reading, but I do appreciate the link to a more organized compilation of the transcripts. Thanks again.

Blues

 

[S&W645]

Thanks, but I had the full .pdf from which all those separate files were culled since about 3:00 am Tuesday morning. It's more than 1500 pages in the .pdf file, so obviously I haven't read all of it (nor do I intend to) yet. I was asking whodat if he could cite the physical evidence that is so inconsistent with witness testimony as to render the witness testimony completely not credible. I wanted to know, and would still like to know, if he actually read it, or was just taking the "prosecutor's" word for it. To me, at this point, the "prosecutor" is anything but credible, so if that's whodat's source, I think it's fair to ask. Meanwhile, I'll keep reading, but I do appreciate the link to a more organized compilation of the transcripts. Thanks again.

Blues

No problem. I didn't know if you or the others had seen them yet.

Evidence that some of the "witnesses" weren't telling the truth comes from the ME's report. One of the things not in the release so far is the military ME's team report. The ME's report fails to backup those who said he was running away when shot. Entry wounds are from the front or side.

 

[BluesStringer]

No problem. I didn't know if you or the others had seen them yet.

Evidence that some of the "witnesses" weren't telling the truth comes from the ME's report. One of the things not in the release so far is the military ME's team report. The ME's report fails to backup those who said he was running away when shot. Entry wounds are from the front or side.

Baden's report said that one of the wounds in the arm could've been sustained while his back was turned to Wilson, but even if that is somehow proven not to be true by other ME's, it doesn't preclude the witnesses seeing shots fired while Brown's back was turned that simply missed. I don't recall any of them saying that he was shot in the back and killed, and only recall one (Piaget I think) saying that she saw him "flinch" and thought he'd been hit at that point. Her mistaken impression hardly amounts to perjured testimony like what is being tossed around on Fox and conservative talk radio - and maybe what some folks around here are thinking(?). That's why I asked what evidence whodat was referencing. I haven't run across anything in my reading so far that equals incompatible testimony with what the physical and/or forensic evidence shows. I have, however, found what I think are quite egregious irregularities in how McCulloch conducted the proceedings, most of which I've previously referenced.

Blues