It Starts With a Punch


Cocked _and_Locked said:
Corrections made for your edification:


When the op "politely corrects" him.

Just FYI. All the imaginary stuff aside. :no:
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If you truly cannot perceive the difference between a polite attempt to defuse a situation and being argumentative, then it is a waste of time attempting discussion with you.

If you do understand the difference and choose to ignore it...then it is still a waste of time attempting to engage in discussion with you.

Have a great day.
 

PaxMentis said:
If you truly cannot perceive the difference between a polite attempt to defuse a situation and being argumentative,...
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The problem with this whole off-track discourse is neither one of us or anybody for that matter knows exactly what was said, how it was said, the context or anything else.

It's all imaginary. Imaginary fears of assault brought on by the paranoid.

Take it at face value. A verbal altercation is just that. Any escalation is no excuse for gunplay, no matter who said what, did what, punches, kicks or anything else. It don't matter. Get that through your thick head.
 
Cocked _and_Locked said:
The problem with this whole off-track discourse is neither one of us or anybody for that matter knows exactly what was said, how it was said, the context or anything else.

It's all imaginary. Imaginary fears of assault brought on by the paranoid.

Take it at face value. A verbal altercation is just that. Any escalation is no excuse for gunplay, no matter who said what, did what, punches, kicks or anything else. It don't matter. Get that through your thick head.
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Of course it matters.
 
Cocked _and_Locked said:
Maybe to you. Now pull out the old "better to be judged by 12..." cliche.
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Go back and look at my initial post where I said the best advice is probably to just walk away. What I have been saying is that a punch, kick, or hell, just a push can lead to dire consequences. Thus, I won't allow it to happen to me, if I can prevent it. Didn't say I'd shoot anyone over it but I treat any physical threat very seriously.
 
Cocked _and_Locked said:
Now I'm going to show you how to respond in this situation, since your verbal attack fits this scenario to a tee. :rolleyes:

Stand by.....
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No attack...just a question arising from honest curiousity...

I sort of figured you already knew how your pronouncements appeared...I just wanted to know if it was purposeful or not.

No biggie...don't answer if would rather people made their own judgements.
 
PaxMentis said:
No attack...just a question arising from honest curiousity...

I sort of figured you already knew how your pronouncements appeared...I just wanted to know if it was purposeful or not.

No biggie...don't answer if would rather people made their own judgements.
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And many have, PM, rest assured. :biggrin:
 
blacksharkL82 said:
Let me see if I have this right.
I'm 70 YO, 5 stents in my heart area. Very high BP, stable but high. Not very strong or wanting to get hurt or killed.
Some punk, comes to my table or stops me in the street and starts some crap with me to push me into a face to face pushing match, and I just let him/them, do it?
NO FREEKIN WAY!
If I go down/die on the spot, who protects my wife and family?
I'm too old to duke it out. Not too old to ventilate his body.
Let a jury decide. I'll be alive.
I do not ask anyone take my advice, on this, it's just what I would do.
Michael
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At 73 years old ain't nobody pounding my A$$. That is why I carry cause I can't fight or run.
 
Originally Posted by blacksharkL82
Let me see if I have this right.
I'm 70 YO, 5 stents in my heart area. Very high BP, stable but high. Not very strong or wanting to get hurt or killed.
Some punk, comes to my table or stops me in the street and starts some crap with me to push me into a face to face pushing match, and I just let him/them, do it?
NO FREEKIN WAY!
If I go down/die on the spot, who protects my wife and family?
I'm too old to duke it out. Not too old to ventilate his body.
Let a jury decide. I'll be alive.
I do not ask anyone take my advice, on this, it's just what I would do.
Michael
Click to expand...

I am a few years younger and w/o the high BP, but have the 5 stents, a 40 year old fake kneecap that is getting a ittle sloppy on the right leg and no cruciate ligaments on the left one since I got it under my last motorcycle a few years back. I also have some old pieces of shrapnel that tend to press the sciatic nerve and a right shoulder that has been repeatedly dislocated.

I CC via HR218 anywhere in the country without much in the way of restrictions including any restaurant or bar I might enter (I play on a pool team for a local tavern in spite of the fact I only drink at home or a friend's home and never over one scotch unless I am in for the night and then I may have 2). Before I retired, I was known as one of those who prefered the title "Peace Officer" to "LEO" and am pretty good at defusing possible problems. That said, if I fail to defuse a given situation and the individual is determined to do me bodily harm even after a warning...he is going to fail miserably and bleed on his surroundings. It has yet to happen, and I doubt it will, I most certainly hope it doesn't...but I certainly will not let a situation "go physical".
 
PaxMentis said:
I am a few years younger and w/o the high BP, but have the 5 stents, a 40 year old fake kneecap that is getting a ittle sloppy on the right leg and no cruciate ligaments on the left one since I got it under my last motorcycle a few years back. I also have some old pieces of shrapnel that tend to press the sciatic nerve and a right shoulder that has been repeatedly dislocated.
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Sounds like you need to pay particularly close attention to staying out of trouble.

Not to worry on the Internet, tho - bad guys can't get ya there, huh? :sarcastic:
 
To Punch, Run or Shoot...Dat is de question.



I think you have to be very careful there.

The law allows you to use only "reasonable" force to repel an attacker. I believe in any situation where the perpetrator has a...clear...potentially lethal...advantage, then you would, legally, be in your right to use a weapon.

The thing is I believe that in the case of a...single...attacker, who is also totally unarmed, you would need a judge/jury/DA to be convinced that any..reasonable...person, in a similar situation, would sincerely believe that their life was in immmediate danger. You might have to argue about why didn't you, for example, just grab the gf and run? why not try and physically restrain him since a "reasonable person" might assume that, with such an incident in a busy reataurant, one might expect the cops to show up very soon, etc.

I realize you can counter each of these arguments but do you really wnt to be in a situation where you have to convince law enforement that you had no other...reasonable..choice?

Tricky problem. I think perhaps many of us would try just making sure that the...rube...who is hassling you gets a real good, quick, look, at what you have on your waist/in your pocket, on your ankle, etc.

Statistically some 90-99% of "fights", where the armed citizen chooses to display his/her weapon, that's the end of the argument. The other parties eyes usually pop out and they leave the scene quickly.

Of course then we get back to: "Yea but then you displayedyour weapon not really being sure you would pull the trigger and that's kind of a no-no".

Personally, as I type this, I believe my answer would be to..not...display my weapon and just try and very calmly try and cool down the situation while, at the same time, you try and make sure that...someone...at least, has called 911.
 
To Punch, Run or Shoot...Dat is de question.



I think you have to be very careful there.

The law allows you to use only "reasonable" force to repel an attacker. I believe in any situation where the perpetrator has a...clear...potentially lethal...advantage, then you would, legally, be in your right to use a weapon.

The thing is I believe that in the case of a...single...attacker, who is also totally unarmed, you would need a judge/jury/DA to be convinced that any..reasonable...person, in a similar situation, would sincerely believe that their life was in immmediate danger. You might have to argue about why didn't you, for example, just grab the gf and run? why not try and physically restrain him since a "reasonable person" might assume that, with such an incident in a busy reataurant, one might expect the cops to show up very soon, etc.

I realize you can counter each of these arguments but do you really wnt to be in a situation where you have to convince law enforement that you had no other...reasonable..choice?

I most heartedly suggest you pick up and read Massad Ayoob's classic and unique perspectives on these very issues, in his book called "In the Gravest Extreme". It's a short book and I think you will gobble it up in just a few hours.
 
guadman said:
Of course then we get back to: "Yea but then you displayedyour weapon not really being sure you would pull the trigger and that's kind of a no-no".

Personally, as I type this, I believe my answer would be to..not...display my weapon and just try and very calmly try and cool down the situation while, at the same time, you try and make sure that...someone...at least, has called 911.
Click to expand...

Actually that is a misquote (common on these boards) of the rule I learned 40 years ago which was "Don't draw your weapon unless you are prepared to pull the trigger...and don't put your finger on the trigger unless you are going to pull it."...and even the last part of that has exceptions. Display of, or even placing one's hand on, a holstered weapon is sometimes an excellent method of encouraging a drunk and hostile individual to listen to reason if they persist in failing to do so.

Obviously display is an option that should be avoided in most cases (unless, of course, you are an OC proponent), but it is a valid option and does not mean you have to shoot the guy.
 
Cocked _and_Locked said:
Sounds like you need to pay particularly close attention to staying out of trouble.

Not to worry on the Internet, tho - bad guys can't get ya there, huh? :sarcastic:
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You know...you really don't have to keep screaming "Look at me, I know how to act like a rectal cavity"...most people have gotten the message already.

I was curious about whether you were just having a bad day so I looked at a string of your recent posts...90% were arrogant, insulting and generally rude. Mellow down...this is a discussion board not a place to constantly advertise your desire to prove yourself an ultimate idiot.
 
Cocked _and_Locked said:
How do we get off on the unprovoked assault tangent? Gang initiation, parking lot fiascos, street crime yada, yada?

That is not what this thread was about. The subject was an argument between two people escalating to deadly force.

When was the last time you had an argument with a mugger? Trying to persuade him not to mug you? Or a street gang confrontation? Lots of discussion going on there, I'm sure. :rolleyes:

Some of you people need to peek outside that fear-driven fantasy world of yours and get real for cryin' out loud. :no:
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And when is it that you can predict with 100% certainty that you will or will not be confronted by an individual looking to start an argument? Do you carry a gun daily or just have some in a safe?

There was a case of that happening here last year in the summer. Some older kids/teens to 20 or so, were loitering in the parking area and by the door of a local gas/x-mart. They were loud and rude and made comments and gestures to patrons. Well one of the individuals decided to take it up a notch when a comment was made by a patron. He got his clock cleaned... This was communicated to me via LEO I know in town.

Expect the Spanish Inquisition...

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