It Starts With a Punch

[blacksharkL82]

starts with a punch?

Let me see if I have this right.
I'm 70 YO, 5 stents in my heart area. Very high BP, stable but high. Not very strong or wanting to get hurt or killed.
Some punk, comes to my table or stops me in the street and starts some crap with me to push me into a face to face pushing match, and I just let him/them, do it?
NO FREEKIN WAY!
If I go down/die on the spot, who protects my wife and family?
I'm too old to duke it out. Not too old to ventilate his body.
Let a jury decide. I'll be alive.
I do not ask anyone take my advice, on this, it's just what I would do.
Michael

 

[Snowman1911]

Let me see if I have this right.
I'm 70 YO, 5 stents in my heart area. Very high BP, stable but high. Not very strong or wanting to get hurt or killed.
Some punk, comes to my table or stops me in the street and starts some crap with me to push me into a face to face pushing match, and I just let him/them, do it?
NO FREEKIN WAY!
If I go down/die on the spot, who protects my wife and family?
I'm too old to duke it out. Not too old to ventilate his body.
Let a jury decide. I'll be alive.
I do not ask anyone take my advice, on this, it's just what I would do.
Michael

No sir...not at all. You have "Disparity Of Force" working for you. Obviously a senior with a heart condition or a person with even NON apparent handicap would be in danger of IMMINENT DEATH or GRAVE BODILY HARM making the use of any reasonable force neccessary to protect yourself, up to and including lethal force.

What I am talking about is a simple "punch" as described by a young, presumably healthy person delivered to a person of reasonably similar age, health, size, condition. That is what the original poster was speaking of if what he wrote was clear.

I'd fully expect my 79 year old grandfather to shoot some buttwipe MY age and size if he were to be assaulted.

 

[Oldgrunt]

BlacksharkL82: You could have nearly been talking about me with your infirmities. I am 73 and could easily be beaten down by my 7 year old great-grandson. I don't go out looking for problems, quite the contrary, I try to be an amiable old fart when I am out and about. I read a saying one time that goes like this: "Don't start a fight with an old man who can no longer fight. He will kill you!". I can't fight any longer but my trigger finger is in fine shape. I will try my best to get out of a bad situation without shooting someone. If I can't and had no other option, I would do what is necessary. Hopefully, I will not be confronted by some stupid a$$ and do something we will both regret.:biggrin:

 

[kelcarry]

My goodness guys: Don't you read what you are saying? The CC laws are only words that can only say so much. If there is a presumption of imminent danger of death or great bodily injury, you have the right to protect yourself--certainly if there are no reasonable alternatives (like running away etc). Sitting in a wheelchair with nowhere to go or being infirmed to the point of limited movement or physical defense on your part sure sounds like it fits the criteria EVEN if it not spelled out in your state's CC laws. Someone throws a punch and you are a healthy and active individual is a different story in my appreciation of what CC is all about--you have options and unless you have been rendered defenseless and now subject to an unmerciful beating that could cause your death etc, CC laws do not include using your firearm, at least, IMO, and in my state.

 

[mappow]

Could someone open a window and let some fresh air in, it's getting a bit stuffy in here????????????

Good point kalcarry

 

[pilot3]

i am 79 years old and not young enough to fight (use to be) I could not run if I had a notion to. I could not survive a beating so it is not a problem for me I would not hesitate to pull my 45 to protect me and mine.

 

[Snowman1911]

i am 79 years old and not young enough to fight (use to be) I could not run if I had a notion to. I could not survive a beating so it is not a problem for me I would not hesitate to pull my 45 to protect me and mine.

Nor should you have to take a punch that could REASONABLY BE EXPECTED TO CAUSE YOU IMMINENT DEATH OR GRAVE BODILY HARM, and further...if someone is around to render you aid, they would also be justified in using any force that was REASONABLY (which MAY include deadly force) neccessary to render that aid and protect you as an innocent third party.

 

[Edsworld]

Let me see if I have this right.
I'm 70 YO, 5 stents in my heart area. Very high BP, stable but high. Not very strong or wanting to get hurt or killed.
Some punk, comes to my table or stops me in the street and starts some crap with me to push me into a face to face pushing match, and I just let him/them, do it?
NO FREEKIN WAY!
If I go down/die on the spot, who protects my wife and family?
I'm too old to duke it out. Not too old to ventilate his body.
Let a jury decide. I'll be alive.
I do not ask anyone take my advice, on this, it's just what I would do.
Michael

I agree. Not just because of your age or health.

Nobody has the right to harm you period.

That one punch can kill you. No matter what your age or health condition is.

Noboby will harm me or mine.

 

[TooCalm]

NC law states that simple assault is not grounds for using deadly force. Also it is your duty to attempt to run away unless you are at your home. A macho ego will land you in prison.
I have a brown belt in the martial art of Aikido. The best technique I was taught was; Sensing trouble before it starts and avoiding it altogether. When used properly that technique never fails!

 

[Cocked _and_Locked]

NC law states that simple assault is not grounds for using deadly force.

edsworld:

You wouldn't be a member of the at-risk community as an infirm or crippled senior, would you?

Just curious where the attitude comes from:

That one punch can kill you. No matter what your age or health condition is.

Noboby will harm me or mine.

 

[Edsworld]

NC law states that simple assault is not grounds for using deadly force. Also it is your duty to attempt to run away unless you are at your home. A macho ego will land you in prison.
I have a brown belt in the martial art of Aikido. The best technique I was taught was; Sensing trouble before it starts and avoiding it altogether. When used properly that technique never fails!

Simple assault is a threat of bodily harm.

Once that person moves to carry out that threat it becomes assault ( attempt to strike another, whether successful or not, provided the target is aware of the danger.). He does not have to hit you first. If someone points a gun at you, do you wait for him to pull the trigger first? Same thing.

As a brown belt in martial arts, you should know how deadly a fist can be. Even just a lucky punch from some average joe.

If the punch just knocked you down, you hit your head on the concrete or something, it could kill you.

If the punch knocked you out, then the guy can do what ever he wants, you can't defend yourself.

No rules in a fight! Winner lives!

 

[Rabbitcreekok]

Simple assault is a threat of bodily harm.

Once that person moves to carry out that threat it becomes assault ( attempt to strike another, whether successful or not, provided the target is aware of the danger.). He does not have to hit you first. If someone points a gun at you, do you wait for him to pull the trigger first? Same thing.

As a brown belt in martial arts, you should know how deadly a fist can be. Even just a lucky punch from some average joe.

If the punch just knocked you down, you hit your head on the concrete or something, it could kill you.

If the punch knocked you out, then the guy can do what ever he wants, you can't defend yourself.

No rules in a fight! Winner lives!

If spending the rest of your life in an 8' X 10' cell as Bubba's girlfriend can be considered living.

 

[Edsworld]

If spending the rest of your life in an 8' X 10' cell as Bubba's girlfriend can be considered living.

That is true!

​

That is why we go through this stuff here. Hopefully , by listening to us bicker over these types of situation you will have made that decision before it happens.

That is all part of mindset.

​

Just because I say I will do This or that, does not mean my mind can't be changed by something someone says on here. That is why I argue my point and they argue theirs, it makes us think, and we can make our decision.

 

[Cocked _and_Locked]

Simple assault is a threat of bodily harm.

In some jurisdictions. More commonly though, actual battery must take place for assault to have oocurred. The midway position is normally classified as harassment.

But this is all academic. The real point to this thread is exposing the attitude of fear and agression that predisposes so many to resort to aggravated assault at the drop of a pin - or a punch - or a fit of insane rage induced by anger issues brough on by a lifetime of feeling inadequate. For whatever reason the particular loser in question feels compelled to walk about just waiting for some opportunity, no matter how trivial, to shoot someone. They will rationalize in their sick mind how this all went down.

While Bubba has his way... :sarcastic:

And they graduate to hardened criminal status.

 

[mrsandman224455]

Here in PRMA you would be going to jail!

Honestly, I would walk away in that situation. If I am out with my wife and trying to have a good time, I would avoid the situation entirely. Now, granted there are situations you can't avoid, I have been in them. However, when I am carrying, I would do ANYTHING to avoid a physical altercation.

I have walked away many times in my life from a fight. I have also been in numerous fights. I am a big guy, 6'4 300lbs and can take care of myself. I have a black belt in martial arts and currently study a different style. Call me what you want (whimp, pansy, etc etc), takes a bigger person to avoid the fight all together and walk away. While you have no duty to retreat there, avoiding the situation altogether IMHO would be your smartest move.

-Capo-

 

[PaxMentis]

How do we get off on the unprovoked assault tangent? Gang initiation, parking lot fiascos, street crime yada, yada?

That is not what this thread was about. The subject was an argument between two people escalating to deadly force.

When was the last time you had an argument with a mugger? Trying to persuade him not to mug you? Or a street gang confrontation? Lots of discussion going on there, I'm sure.

Some of you people need to peek outside that fear-driven fantasy world of yours and get real for cryin' out loud. :no:

To quote the OP...

Take this example:

Your at dinner with you friends, wife, girlfriend, mistress () or whom ever. For some reason or another a man verbally insults you, or is extremely rude. You correct him politely, stating you want no trouble and wish to remain in peace. Being in a public place, (in Alabama) you have NO duty to retreat.

The guy won't back down, he is determined to piss you off further, and cause a ruckus. You politely remind him that you are here merely to enjoy your meal. You don't instigate at all, but merely inform the person of your right to be there, maybe you throw in that you have the right to defend yourself should unlawful force be used against you. He doesn't buy your attempt to play the street lawyer and he finally has enough and throws a punch.

That is pretty much an unprovoked attack....not an "escalated argument"...

 

[Cocked _and_Locked]

Corrections made for your edification:

To quote the OP...

That is pretty much an unprovoked verbal attack... which equals an "escalated argument"...

When the op "politely corrects" him.

Just FYI. All the imaginary stuff aside. :no:

 

[JJFlash]

Corrections made for your edification:


When the op "politely corrects" him.

Just FYI. All the imaginary stuff aside. :no:

It's not verbal if he throws a punch, as stated.

 

[Snowman1911]

edsworld:

You wouldn't be a member of the at-risk community as an infirm or crippled senior, would you?

Just curious where the attitude comes from:

Based upon all his other posts Cocked And Locked....Edsworld acts as though he was bullied A LOT as a kid and is looking for payback now. His cojones and his ego are duct taped to his pistol. Without it...he is like a chihuahua in a world full of pitbulls. He may yap, and he may try to nip...but in the end...he will be the guy on top of a tall building with a rifle and a stiffy he just can't get rid of.

 

[Snowman1911]

here in prma you would be going to jail!

Honestly, i would walk away in that situation. If i am out with my wife and trying to have a good time, i would avoid the situation entirely. Now, granted there are situations you can't avoid, i have been in them. However, when i am carrying, i would do anything to avoid a physical altercation.

I have walked away many times in my life from a fight. I have also been in numerous fights. I am a big guy, 6'4 300lbs and can take care of myself. I have a black belt in martial arts and currently study a different style. Call me what you want (whimp, pansy, etc etc), takes a bigger person to avoid the fight all together and walk away. While you have no duty to retreat there, avoiding the situation altogether imho would be your smartest move.

-capo-

amen!