tcox4freedom
New member
^^^ Good post ^^^
and
Welcome to the forum Limo...
and
Welcome to the forum Limo...
is .380 enough gun?
- Thread starter AvidshooterTX
- Start date
Thanks tcox,
I own 3 body armors.
I wear it under my suit when I work (Drive).
when I'm in California, I have to carry openly (under Security credential).
If bad buy try to rob or kidnap somebody, whom would he shoot first ? He shoot most dangerous enemy " a man with gun" and that's me (unless he is psycho random shooter)
If I get shot, my clients have to run on foot.
My first Vest was concealable level IIIA (I should say most popular thickness) .
Body armor is extremely worm not because extra layer of cloth because material is not breathable.
my body heat and worm sweat are trapped between my under shirts and vest.
Very ! uncomfortable.
I'm not secret service or even local LEO, my gun and body armor are "just in case" item.
I started not wear body armor (especially summer) few years ago.
Then friends (Full time security officer and LEOs) told me that "Reduce to level II, it won't stop .45 or close range of 9mm FMJ but it's way stronger than your T-shirt"
It was very true.
level II, even Level IIA has 1,000 times protecting power than my under shirt.
This same strategy goes to my .380.
My 84F is relatively new (4 years).
I bought (and qualify) to .380 because sometimes I feel too lazy to carry my 9mm or 357.
200 lbf energy is stronger than 0 lbf (no hit or no gun)
I carry 9mm with Level III armor when I plan to go where I need one.
but now I carry .380 with level II body armor so often.
(I don't drive in South Central LA or skid row, I mostly drive in Beverly Hills, why I need 9mm + Level III every day...)
I own 3 body armors.
I wear it under my suit when I work (Drive).
when I'm in California, I have to carry openly (under Security credential).
If bad buy try to rob or kidnap somebody, whom would he shoot first ? He shoot most dangerous enemy " a man with gun" and that's me (unless he is psycho random shooter)
If I get shot, my clients have to run on foot.
My first Vest was concealable level IIIA (I should say most popular thickness) .
Body armor is extremely worm not because extra layer of cloth because material is not breathable.
my body heat and worm sweat are trapped between my under shirts and vest.
Very ! uncomfortable.
I'm not secret service or even local LEO, my gun and body armor are "just in case" item.
I started not wear body armor (especially summer) few years ago.
Then friends (Full time security officer and LEOs) told me that "Reduce to level II, it won't stop .45 or close range of 9mm FMJ but it's way stronger than your T-shirt"
It was very true.
level II, even Level IIA has 1,000 times protecting power than my under shirt.
This same strategy goes to my .380.
My 84F is relatively new (4 years).
I bought (and qualify) to .380 because sometimes I feel too lazy to carry my 9mm or 357.
200 lbf energy is stronger than 0 lbf (no hit or no gun)
I carry 9mm with Level III armor when I plan to go where I need one.
but now I carry .380 with level II body armor so often.
(I don't drive in South Central LA or skid row, I mostly drive in Beverly Hills, why I need 9mm + Level III every day...)
Since I last posted this, I have had a "change of heart" so to speak, I work in the construction business so I work outdoors everyday, here in S.C. it gets hot and gets hot fast, it was 93 degrees here with humidity through the roof and we are only halfway through May and carrying a compact 45acp iwb will make you sweat like you would not believe. I found a Ruger 380 lcp at a good price and bought one, I now carry it in my pocket instead of iwb and it feels great. I have done several range test on my own and I'm confident enough in the performance of this little firearm to make it my primary carry weapon during the summer months, when cooler weather rolls back around I may go back to the 45 but I feel being comfortable is a big key in ccw as well as the firearm that you carry, so mark me down as a pocket pistol believer.
I would LOVE to know what Patton would have done if he'd been allowed to enter Berlin and had been able to capture hitler alive.
I believe a post by Ncpermit is most telling. Depending on your area of operation the minimum carry may make the difference. About 40 years ago had to drive weekly to a VA hospital in the San Francisco area when the Zebra killings were going on. I drove by two of the locations where people were shot and killed sitting at a stop light. So, bought a little .38 S&W and left it on the seat just, well because. Then slowly I noticed that I was taking streets that I would not normally go, because I felt a little safer with it sitting next to me. Realized I had gotten to be 26 years old without having to have a gun sitting on my seat. Stopped going down those streets and "ifffy" places.
Now, when I am driving across Arizona and New Mexico, because of the stuff going on, it is a Sig 226 in .357 Sig. And if I run into an AK, well that dog just don't hunt. But as the earlier post mentioned, carry may depend on what you are doing and where you are going.
Putting gas in your car at night, well a .380 may be just peachy.
Now, when I am driving across Arizona and New Mexico, because of the stuff going on, it is a Sig 226 in .357 Sig. And if I run into an AK, well that dog just don't hunt. But as the earlier post mentioned, carry may depend on what you are doing and where you are going.
Putting gas in your car at night, well a .380 may be just peachy.
SGB
New member
While arguably better than a sharp stick it's still an inferior choice to other calibers available, but sometimes an inferior choice is the only choice you have. If you have to pack a .380 stick to FMJ.
HunterLee
HunterLee
I dont want to go against any gun, and I suspect, all sane people do not. There is a article out on the web, maybe on this site, about a shootout with a BG and the FBI (who I beleive had 40 s&w's as the most common weapon). They finally got him by first shooting his ankles with an AR-15. It has been a long time since I have read the article - you should read it. I will try to relocate it -as I do beleive it was posted on this site.
Everything else all depends on the situation. Are you willing to bet your own life on a situation? First, to address your "22 statement". The President of the United States (Ronald Reagan) was hit with a 22 (and did not even know it - at first). Sure, shot placement counts; but in an ambush situation, you really do not have time for "Shot placement". If you are real, you step back to your (muscle memory) training, and go for center of mass. Many snipers go for center of mass (depending on the situation). You may kill someone with a 380, or even a 9mm; but what you want is to put them down (kill them NOW) to end the threat. Contrary to what you were saying, many people/enemies will continue to advance towards you after having been shot (multiple times) unless you have something that hits hard enough to shock the body (not the mind). It all depends on the situation. I know someone who was hit twice by a 45, took the gun from the guy (who shot him) and beat him half to death - with the gun. All I am saying, in my opinion, a 380 is not going to drop someone (if that is your intention) at the moment of use, unless you are the enemy and have placed yourself in a position to fire a kill shot. It will probably work well in getting the "bad guy' to duck (if you fire at him) so that you can flee "the situation". That, in my opinion is probably the thing to try for if carrying a 380.
danhammondsr
Dan Hammond, Sr.
I'm not willing to stand and be shot with a slingshot loaded with a marble. That doesn't mean it';s adequate for self-defense.
That whole "are you willing to let me shoot you with it?" argument is specious at best.
Carry the largest gun you can comfortably conceal, in the largest caliber you can accurately shoot (on successive shots).
That whole "are you willing to let me shoot you with it?" argument is specious at best.
Carry the largest gun you can comfortably conceal, in the largest caliber you can accurately shoot (on successive shots).
I carry either a Walther PPS .40 or a S&W Bodyguard .380 depending on dress level. While the Walther is easier to shoot and bring back to target, I can't always have it with me even though it is already a fairly small (thin) gun. The Bodyguard .380 is certainly a small gun and is a bit more difficult to control and to bring back to target after firing a round. I have thought about the effectiveness of the round and have done a lot of reading on it. (I decided on the Hydrashok round) Also, as other people have mentioned, if it came to it, the average citizen carrying concealed is going to be in a confrontation within 20 feet or so. In my estimate the round is going to be pretty effective within this distance unless the person is wearing multiple layers of clothing such as in winter.
The average distance is actually 3 feet. So, imagine that bullet coming out of the gun that snaps your hand up plowing into someone's neck, or face, or chest or the friggin groin! This argument is flat out retarded. Thousands of deaths are from calibers UNDER .380, so I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say it suffices for self defense. Sure I'd much rather have my .357 but I'd much rather carry something similar to a cell phone rather than a paper weight in my pants
The real question is "Do you hit what you aim at?" critical to ANY weapon is whether you can hit your target.
Consider that the second and third shot will get on target a lot easier and faster with a .380 over something that kicks more. If you cannot handle the weapon then it's no good for you, and the caliber won't matter.
It was said here that the difference between a 9mm and the .380 is the length and charge of the cartridge. I'm not a reload or a ballistics guy but at the "normal" defense range inside 20 feet, it sounds like the .380 would do it for me. IMHO of course!
Consider that the second and third shot will get on target a lot easier and faster with a .380 over something that kicks more. If you cannot handle the weapon then it's no good for you, and the caliber won't matter.
It was said here that the difference between a 9mm and the .380 is the length and charge of the cartridge. I'm not a reload or a ballistics guy but at the "normal" defense range inside 20 feet, it sounds like the .380 would do it for me. IMHO of course!
I agree with the above posters that say that shot placement, and ammunition choice, is critical. Obviously, some type of hollow-point is better than FMJ. I carry a Sig p238 with Hornady Critical Defense. I'm not real concerned about stopping power at 100 yds with this weapon.
HunterLee
HunterLee
I don't get your point, as a pencil is plenty with good placement (i.e., a good shot). I had written a lot to argue against carrying the .380 (in this spot), but deleted it all and added the next paragraph.
To each his/her own. I will continue to carry a 45 or 40 in my everyday travels,routines and carry a 9mm while walking, running, doing yard work, etc.
Rocketgeezer
New member
This is one that will never go away, my wife and I have muliple pistols in everything fromm 22LR to 454, and IMHO, a 380 is not enough gun for the general person with a CCW permit, unless your very close, 6 to 8ft, shot placement is to critical, what i meen is a 380 in the leg or arm is not going to stop a determined BG where a 40 or 45 will, but on the same hand if it meens carrying a gun or not by all meens if what you have if it is a 380 or even a 22 carry it, the only caliber I absolutly will not endorse is a 25acp I think with a 25 you may be better off carrying a roll of quarters or even a rock, I have shot glass soda bottles at 20 ft and it didn't break it fell over, and at a local range a women accidentaly shot herself in the hand trying to unjam her little POS 25 and the round did not even go threw her hand, with her palm over the muzzle of the barrel, now exactly what kind of protection would that be
Firefighterchen
OC for Tactical Advantage
Rocketgeezer:241400 said:
I don't think a .40 or .45 in the arm or leg will stop a determined bad guy. Maybe if you hit a large vessel, and even then a 380 has enough penetration for that. Because most self defense shootings are within the range (6-8 feet), 380 has more than enough punch.
Ultimately we shouldn't rely on the effectiveness of a caliber when hitting an appendage. We should be practicing center mass, that is the fastest and most reliable way to stop a threat.
I do believe bigger is better. Carry the biggest caliber you can handle. The problem I had, when I was a cc only, I couldn't conceal a larger caliber handgun on my body type when it was 100° or higher, When it's that hot, bad guys tend to wear just a tshirt, and I never felt under powered.
Now that I open carry, I do carry my larger calibers year round. The 380 is a back up, and I trust my life on it still.
David Manley
New member
380
Witnessed the unstopping power of a 9mm, one guy took 6 rounds while returning 3 rounds to the other guy. Both lived and were out of hospital the next day. I Did by my girlfriend the S&W 380 Bodyguard with a box of Hornady Tap ammo. The gun shoots great and hits hard for a small round. But I will stick to my Kimber Custom TLEII 45 and backup Chiappa Rhino 357mag both loaded with Hornady Tap ammo. 1 round landed anywhere from either gun and its over.
Witnessed the unstopping power of a 9mm, one guy took 6 rounds while returning 3 rounds to the other guy. Both lived and were out of hospital the next day. I Did by my girlfriend the S&W 380 Bodyguard with a box of Hornady Tap ammo. The gun shoots great and hits hard for a small round. But I will stick to my Kimber Custom TLEII 45 and backup Chiappa Rhino 357mag both loaded with Hornady Tap ammo. 1 round landed anywhere from either gun and its over.
