I'm asking for help re: Loose Lips Sink Ships,


gdcleanfun

Banned
I'm having trouble trying to convince some online buddies that they should not be posting the APOs and FPOs and deployment dates and arenas and the names of their loved ones so that others can write to them once they are deployed. I know we had regulations that governed us when we were active duty, specifically those dictated by the ASA for those of us in the Army. Does the ASA still govern? Can you direct me to any published cites? Does Homeland Security have any policies published for citizens that I can cite? Please help soon so I can stop them from being stupid, at the least, and keep all from harm if possible. Thanks ever so much!
 

Considering the fact that you have folks posting pictures of themselves taken in theater and STILL IN theater:eek:, I don't think it's that big of a deal anymore. That's not to say that being cautious wouldn't be a good idea.


gf

Your response makes me sad, and it's obvious that you've not been in the military, or in any security position of a branch of government. It's not a big deal? Guess again. Imho, you might think a heck of a lot differently if someone were to compromise the security of your son if he ever enlists. Yes, it is a big deal. That's why orders are handed personally to each individual in a unit or company, not posted on a bulletin board. Security is not ever something to compromise. Taking a picture of yourself in theater, then posting it online, is not stating your name, position, job, etc. Thought still a stupid thing do to, there is a huge difference between compromising your whole company and posting a pic of your mug in an undisclosed location, which is also a stupid thing to do imho!
 
Things are a lot different today then they were when you served. An APO of FPO does not provide an exact location of military personnel. Having friends coming back from deployment and others still overseas, we use websites like FB to keep in touch. Two things are vital to the morale of service members while deployed. 1) food 2) mail/correspondence from family and friends back home. If you were ever deployed, you would understand this. Having been deployed overseas AND in command of a large number of troops, I understand this.

I don't want to start a flame war, I simply don't agree with your position that it's "stupid" for folks to post their contact information on a social networking site. Social networking sites like FB can be restricted so access to the "sensitive information" is limited to authorized persons. Sites can be "hacked" or otherwise compromised, but rarely are. If it were as big of a deal as you seem to think it is, I'm sure that many of the service men and women posting info to their sites would have gotten disciplined by now.




gf
 
Things are a lot different today then they were when you served. An APO of FPO does not provide an exact location of military personnel. Having friends coming back from deployment and others still overseas, we use websites like FB to keep in touch. Two things are vital to the morale of service members while deployed. 1) food 2) mail/correspondence from family and friends back home. If you were ever deployed, you would understand this. Having been deployed overseas AND in command of a large number of troops, I understand this.

I don't want to start a flame war, I simply don't agree with your position that it's "stupid" for folks to post their contact information on a social networking site. Social networking sites like FB can be restricted so access to the "sensitive information" is limited to authorized persons. Sites can be "hacked" or otherwise compromised, but rarely are. If it were as big of a deal as you seem to think it is, I'm sure that many of the service men and women posting info to their sites would have gotten disciplined by now


gf

Nah, no flame war, you and I went there once, but you're my bud, and you're too much fun to debate with to argue with.

I have been deployed. My apologies that I thought you weren't. Times have changed, yes, but to the detriment of the security of our troops, everywhere. Okay, maybe the APOs and FPOs being posted shouldn't rile me too badly, but if you consider the rest of my post, the sensitive information about troop whereabouts, and personal identifiers like names and company info being posted online, well, that scares the heck out of me. Restricted posts on places like Facebook or My Space are not restricted at all. Are you familiar with the terms sniffing or hacking? Google is your bud. Even Homeland Security says the same thing. Want the cite? Why don't we just broadcast it to the world on bulls-eye posters on our uniforms who we are, where we are, what we're doing? Why don't we let the world know in advance, give every other country a head's-up? Because that's what we are doing if we are posting these things. I was ASA, I believe that I'm much more in tune with security measures than the general enlisted and civilian populations. It is a big deal! Do you remember the slogan, "Loose lips sink ships?" It still applies. If those posting their positions to open websites have not been disciplined by now, they should be! And you know this how, that they've not been disciplined yet? Or, was that just a generalized, unsubstantiated statement on your part? Care to cite your sources? No flame war intended/needed. I just disagree. To reiterate: it is a big deal!
 
Nah, no flame war, you and I went there once, but you're my bud, and you're too much fun to debate with to argue with.

I have been deployed. My apologies that I thought you weren't. Times have changed, yes, but to the detriment of the security of our troops, everywhere. Okay, maybe the APOs and FPOs being posted shouldn't rile me too badly, but if you consider the rest of my post, the sensitive information about troop whereabouts, and personal identifiers like names and company info being posted online, well, that scares the heck out of me. Restricted posts on places like Facebook or My Space are not restricted at all. Are you familiar with the terms sniffing or hacking? Google is your bud. Even Homeland Security says the same thing. Want the cite? Why don't we just broadcast it to the world on bulls-eye posters on our uniforms who we are, where we are, what we're doing? Why don't we let the world know in advance, give every other country a head's-up? Because that's what we are doing if we are posting these things. I was ASA, I believe that I'm much more in tune with security measures than the general enlisted and civilian populations. It is a big deal! Do you remember the slogan, "Loose lips sink ships?" It still applies. If those posting their positions to open websites have not been disciplined by now, they should be! And you know this how, that they've not been disciplined yet? Or, was that just a generalized, unsubstantiated statement on your part? Care to cite your sources? No flame war intended/needed. I just disagree. To reiterate: it is a big deal!


I have sevreral buddies who are either still depolyed or recently back from deployment. They have their info posted on their FB accounts, photos of their every day work, and in a few cases even video. To date, none of them have been punished or even told to take anything down from their sites. One guy had his site checked out by his chain of command, then eventually NCIS. They found that he did nothing wrong.

With the availability of internet access to the troops, I'm sure that there's some way of restricting what they post if it were that critical to mission security. I know some stuff is monitored, but for the most part service members are free to post things as long as it doesn't violate any laws and is in good taste.




gf
 
I have sevreral buddies who are either still depolyed or recently back from deployment. They have their info posted on their FB accounts, photos of their every day work, and in a few cases even video. To date, none of them have been punished or even told to take anything down from their sites. One guy had his site checked out by his chain of command, then eventually NCIS. They found that he did nothing wrong.

With the availability of internet access to the troops, I'm sure that there's some way of restricting what they post if it were that critical to mission security. I know some stuff is monitored, but for the most part service members are free to post things as long as it doesn't violate any laws and is in good taste.




gf

What you've stated is so very general that it is of no use to me. :fie: Thanks anyway. :biggrin: You've still not answered my initial question. Maybe someone else can.
 
Having been in a couple of wars I believe one reason a war can be lost is because the enemy knows sensitive information about troop whereabouts, strengths and combat actions. Posting APO/ FPO addresses causes no real concern, however, posting where a deployment is located and what they intend to do is something that shouldn't be done. The more bits and pieces of information the enemy can collect, the better they can defend against our actions and kill our troops. Of course this is only my opinion and can be debated. GD maybe the following will help:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/dhs-sbu.html
 
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Having been in a couple of wars I believe one reason a war can be lost is because the enemy knows sensitive information about troop whereabouts, strengths and combat actions. Posting APO/ FPO addresses causes no real concern, however, posting where a deployment is located and what they intend to do is something that shouldn't be done. The more bits and pieces of information the enemy can collect, the better they can defend against our actions and kill our troops. Of course this is only my opinion and can be debated. GD maybe the following will help:

Safeguarding Sensitive But Unclassified (For Official Use Only) Information

Thank you, Ronwill. I'm glad someone understands what I'm trying to say! I'll check out the web site you've provided, thanks.
 
There should be an OPSEC and PERSEC warning on all military boards. If someone is posting their APO's and their deployment destinations online for the open board to see then the moderators should erase those posts and threads, with a stern warning for those involved in such stupity.
 
There should be an OPSEC and PERSEC warning on all military boards. If someone is posting their APO's and their deployment destinations online for the open board to see then the moderators should erase those posts and threads, with a stern warning for those involved in such stupity.

Yes, thanks, I did find some info regarding published, sensitive, and stricter security of information for our troops on an OPSEC site and posted it on my board. It's not a military board, it's a church board. Either way, yes, it's just plain stupid to risk any of our MILPERSONs in any way, shape or form by publishing anything more than name & rank. Serial numbers are now SS numbers and should never be published, imho. I'm surprised, even mad and shocked really, at how much flak I've received when I called this practice into question. Out of 300 people on this church board, NOT ONE other church member agreed with me, and others told me I was fear mongering. They justified the publishing of so much information by citing knowing who to write to to comfort them while they are on duty. Just a name, a rank, and an APO/FPO will do the trick, but they published home base, new camp, times and dates and full names with MOS, along with so much more info. They just don't get it! Sad!:cray: I've also notified the DoD and Homeland Security. Maybe they will want to make a visit, maybe not.
 

Thanks, Ron.

Your last link was it!

The gist of this alert is that military personnel cannot give certain types of information to the public, the same type unintentionally given here, without proper review or approval. It's good security that if they cannot, then we ought not. Everyone, while in basic training, is instructed to not disseminate this type of information. It is not provoking fear when we attempt to protect as much as possible the safety of a daughter, all military personnel, during peace time or war time. From the comments here and on other sites, I'm finding that most civilians, no matter how connected to active or retired military and even many military personnel themselves, do not understand nor consider serious this concept of security. Scary.




The following is an unclassified alert from the Department of Defense. August 6, 2006: Sorry for the all capitals, the alert is written that way.

___

INFORMATION SECURITY/WEBSITE ALERT
06 AUG 2006

...
2. ALL PERSONNEL HAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY TO ENSURE THAT NO INFORMATION THAT MIGHT PLACE OUR SERVICE MEMBERS IN JEOPARDY OR THAT WOULD BE OF USE TO OUR ADVERSARIES IS POSTED TO WEBSITES THAT ARE READILY ACCESSIBLE BY THE PUBLIC. ALTHOUGH NOT A FINITE LIST, SUCH INFORMATION INCLUDES, AMONG OTHER THINGS, TECHNICAL INFORMATION, OPERATIONAL PLANS, TROOP ROTATION SCHEDULES, POSITION AND MOVEMENT OF U.S. NAVAL CRAFT, DESCRIPTIONS OF OVERSEAS MILITARY BASES, VULNERABILITY OF WEAPON SYSTEMS OR DISCUSSION OF AREAS FREQUENTED BY U.S. PERSONNEL OVERSEAS. SPECIAL ATTENTION SHALL BE GIVEN TO IDENTIFICATION OF INFORMATION THAT WOULD FACILITATE CIRCUMVENTION OF DOD, COMPONENT OR COMMAND POLICIES, RULES, REGULATIONS OR OTHER SIGNIFICANT GUIDANCE (E.G., ORDERS, MANUALS, INSTRUCTIONS, SECURITY CLASSIFICATION GUIDES)...


3. *BLOGS,* OR WEB LOGS, POSTED TO PUBLIC WEBSITES ARE INCREASINGLY USED BY MILITARY PERSONNEL AS PERSONAL JOURNALS. COMMANDERS SHALL ENSURE SUBORDINATES ARE AWARE THAT, IN ACCORDANCE WITH DOD DIRECTIVE 5230.9, *CLEARANCE OF DOD INFORMATION FOR PUBLIC RELEASE,* AND THE JOINT ETHICS REGULATION (DOD 5500.7-R), PERSONAL BLOGS (I.E., THOSE NOT HAVING DOD SPONSORSHIP AND PURPOSE) MAY NOT BE CREATED/MAINTAINED DURING NORMAL DUTY HOURS AND MAY NOT CONTAIN INFORMATION ON MILITARY ACTIVITIES THAT IS NOT AVAILABLE TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC. SUCH INFORMATION INCLUDES COMMENTS ON DAILY MILITARY ACTIVITIES AND OPERATIONS, UNIT MORALE, RESULTS OF OPERATIONS, STATUS OF EQUIPMENT, AND OTHER INFORMATION THAT MAY BE BENEFICIAL TO ADVERSARIES.

4. IN ACCORDANCE WITH PARAGRAPH 6.2.7 OF DODI 5230.29, *SECURITY AND POLICY REVIEW OF DOD INFORMATION FOR PUBLIC RELEASE,* ANY INFORMATION MEETING THE REQUIREMENTS OF PARAGRAPH 6.1 OF THAT INSTRUCTION, INCLUDING INFORMATION REGARDING MILITARY OPERATIONAL PLANS, SHALL BE REVIEWED AND APPROVED FOR RELEASE BY THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE OFFICE OF FREEDOM OF INFORMATION AND SECURITY REVIEW PRIOR TO POSTING ON WEBSITES ACCESSIBLE TO THE PUBLIC. ...
 
OPSEC and PERSEC are huge but the most common violaters are the press and the young warriors, some of them have been targeted the enemy does use this stuff to exploit our Warriors and support it's cause but with the spped of information it's near impossible to regualte and it is a very place out there today than it was even 5 yeras ago let alone back in '78 when I started this journey.

Heck I have more info on this site than I should!
 
Having been in a couple of wars I believe one reason a war can be lost is because the enemy knows sensitive information about troop whereabouts, strengths and combat actions. Posting APO/ FPO addresses causes no real concern, however, posting where a deployment is located and what they intend to do is something that shouldn't be done. The more bits and pieces of information the enemy can collect, the better they can defend against our actions and kill our troops. Of course this is only my opinion and can be debated. GD maybe the following will help:

Safeguarding Sensitive But Unclassified (For Official Use Only) Information
i honestly belive the mno's are a bigger threat to troops security, any one rember when the seals came ashore in kuwait?,cnn and outher news org. were alerted somehow and as seals wre landing all those lights came on so the mno's could film the insurtion. the seals were much more disciplined than i would have been, i would have hosed the lights and everything under them as they had just compromized the op.!:angry:
 
Yes, thanks, I did find some info regarding published, sensitive, and stricter security of information for our troops on an OPSEC site and posted it on my board. It's not a military board, it's a church board. Either way, yes, it's just plain stupid to risk any of our MILPERSONs in any way, shape or form by publishing anything more than name & rank. Serial numbers are now SS numbers and should never be published, imho. I'm surprised, even mad and shocked really, at how much flak I've received when I called this practice into question. Out of 300 people on this church board, NOT ONE other church member agreed with me, and others told me I was fear mongering. They justified the publishing of so much information by citing knowing who to write to to comfort them while they are on duty. Just a name, a rank, and an APO/FPO will do the trick, but they published home base, new camp, times and dates and full names with MOS, along with so much more info. They just don't get it! Sad!:cray: I've also notified the DoD and Homeland Security. Maybe they will want to make a visit, maybe not.

Your church is putting those soldiers in danger. They should be stopped.
 
i honestly belive the mno's are a bigger threat to troops security, any one rember when the seals came ashore in kuwait?,cnn and outher news org. were alerted somehow and as seals wre landing all those lights came on so the mno's could film the insurtion. the seals were much more disciplined than i would have been, i would have hosed the lights and everything under them as they had just compromized the op.!:angry:

Oldvet you make a very good argument for NOT releasing info except on a "need to know" basis. If the insertion info had been better protected those SEALS would not have had their lives placed in even greater danger than they already were. In just about every war, if you research a little, you can find where leaked info helped prolong the war.
 
GdClean (and whomever), FWIW the ASA is no more. I don't know what it was supplanted by but the ASA - as such - no longer exists (I understand). I was with the ASA in Berlin in the mid/late 60's, working hand-in-glove with the NSA at a place called Teufelsberg (look it up). Interesting poop, that's for sure.

Regarding the thread, I'm not a fan of posting ANYthing about your deployment! It's easy to connect the dots when you have more dots. We used to say that we had stuff that was SO SECRET only us and the Soviets knew about it. Good rule: When in doubt, STFU!!
 
Oldvet you make a very good argument for NOT releasing info except on a "need to know" basis. If the insertion info had been better protected those SEALS would not have had their lives placed in even greater danger than they already were. In just about every war, if you research a little, you can find where leaked info helped prolong the war.

at least pres. reagan shut down all news with blockade in greanda!
 

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