ID target or Shoot


As many of you mentioned, all bets are off if there are other people in the house besides you and your wife and even then it must be understood that roaming around the house in the middle of night can be a dangerous thing. I lock our bedroom door and put a wedge under the door--if my wife or I go out to the kitchen, the door is open, which would indicate that one of us has moved to another area of the house. If you have kids or others in another area of the house it is a much more difficult problem and, obviously, your commitment to go out of your room and ID the noise is a lot more firghtening and dangerous.
I do not know where y'all live but I am 67 years old and have NEVER been in a position where any sort of weapon was EVER needed inside my home or roaiming around NY, NJ or SC. Maybe it is because I am now old and am a bit more of a "codger" but my current interest in weapons protection and CCW has only recently happened due to my perception that America and the federal government is just not the same as when I grew up and raised a family, and it scares me.
 

Those with preteens or teenagers in the house will understand the need to identify before shooting. While mine haven't done it yet (at least that I know of) the tendency for some to sneak out at night makes it a requirement. Most homes aren't totally without some light and the few seconds it takes to determine if it's a BG in the house is worth the risk, especially if it prevents harming a family member.
 
Everybody in my family knows my military history (30 years AD USMC, 6 years RVN) and knows I am armed, at home and at large. They all agree to call before and right after arriving my at my house. I get up, get a cup of coffe and wait for them. My house is pretty well "hardened" and if I don't let you in, it will take a heck of a physical effort by more than one person to get in. I have video cam to cover both doors and I can tell before grabbing gun who is there.

Even the courts, usually not real friendly to us, recognize that a man's home is his haven. Everybody who has a gun for Home Defense needs to seriously look at their security package( doors, windows, alrms and visual aids) to allow some sort of sane decision making.

The effect is not only not shooting a loved one but allowing yourself to safely and sanely go into Condition Red before a BG enters the house.

The gun is only a part of a self defense strategy.
 
JJFlash, you are correct, situations like that have happened far too many times! I am not so quick to excuse the father in that instance. I will bet a dollar to a donut that he did not have his finger indexed. We preach this, and preach this constantly. You must have your finger indexed in order to avert the "startle" reflex, and the "sympathetic" reflex.

The startle reflex is the natural response of the hand to clinch when suddenly startled. This is part of the fight or flight response. The sympathetic response is the natrual reaction of the right hand to want to do what the left hand, and vice versa, is doing. In other words, if you have you finger on the trigger, and reach to grab someone with the other hand. Should the person resist, you could have a sympathetic response, thus pressing the trigger.

This is why it is so important to build a good firearms foundation, and to seek professional assistance in technique, or training. We owe it to our families, and ourselves. Heck it is the right thing to do if we are responible firearms owners. I am always seeking newer, and better training at every turn. Been to three schools in the last six months, and lining up another in Nov. to take the NRA Basic Instructors School.

The one thing I have learned is that the more I think I know, the less I have really learned.

Blkdragon
Black Dragon Personal Protection/Firearms Training/Unarmed Combat
 
I read this thread the other day, and came back to it today because I watched a movie called "Strangers" over the weekend. In that movie, the main character accidentally shoots his friend because he was in the house and the house was being invaded. His friend came to pick him up, and rounded the corner. The guy shot before he ever saw more than a human figure. For me, this one can go either way. Even though it was a movie, I'm sure it has happened before. He didn't identify his target, but he was hiding in a room in his house while it was being intruded upon by people who meant obvious harm to him. I can't find blame for that particular situation.

My home is fairly secure. My step-daughter is in and out of the house a lot, but she knows to announce when she's coming and going. I keep a light next to my gun, and don't get one without the other. I have three dogs in the house that make it very clear when someone is even near the house. We keep two in the bedroom with us at night, and one in a kennel in the living room. As far as being notified, that's the most effective alarm system I can find. I like to think that if it came down to it, I wouldn't act on anything unless I notified LEO's first. But, if it comes down to the safety of my family, I may not have the luxury of a minute to make a phone call.
 
It's one thing if it is only you and your wife. Everything in my house, besides my wife is "stuff". "Stuff" is insured and can be replaced. If I leave my locked bedroom looking for the perp, there is a good chance I may get killed---and for what?---insured STUFF--ridiculous. I call the police, wait in my bedroom and if that bedroom door is forced open, then "stuff" is not the issue anymore and the perp will be on the receiving end of very, very different "stuff" that he did not want. If you have children in other parts of the house or their schedule has some 1 or 2 or 3 o'clock entries the situation is totally different and, as many have posted, you and your family had better be well rehearsed and prepared knowing that one mistake is all it takes for a tragedy.
 
I totally agree. There are two items in my house that are not living beings that are irreplaceable. Both of them are in the bedroom, which is also the "safe" room. Everything else can stay or go, it's not an issue worth risking my life.

Some people may think it's excessive, but I have a steel reinforced bedroom door with two deadbolts that can only be operated from the inside. The door jamb has been stregnthened with metal casings for the actual bolts from the locks. To one side of the door is the bathroom with a ceramic tile wall, the other side is my closet. Both of these factors decrease the risk of a BG shooting through the wall, even though it's not impossible. The room is on the second floor, so window entry is a little more difficult. There is an exit strategy, though.

Our plan is that if something ever happened, we all get to the bedroom if possible and wait it out. If not, I am the only person to act on anything. Identify the threat, then do whatever is in my power to make it stop.
 
It still would be nice if people could be immune from prosecution for using deadly force to protect property, like they are in Texas. Not everyone (myself included), has or can afford insurance for "stuff." My "stuff" is mine and nobody else's; if someone is trying to take it, whether by force or not, I should be able to do whatever I need to do to protect my "stuff." To me, telling people that they can't use deadly force to protect what belongs to them is like saying that criminals are free to help themselves to it as long as they don't jeopardize your life. That is just wrong.
 
tattedupboy said:
To me, telling people that they can't use deadly force to protect what belongs to them is like saying that criminals are free to help themselves to it as long as they don't jeopardize your life. That is just wrong.
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I'd be willing to bet that the slow decline of the rights of those in England to protect themselves and their property from all the burglars started in the same way by taking away the right to defend your stuff.
 
Hey tattedupboy and booga: I assume your comments are in reply to my "stuff" posts but I do want you to know that I absolutely agree with you on everything you both said. In my case and some other posters "stuff" can wait until the police come and since my "stuff" is insured, I will not put myself or my wife in harms over some silver, china, crystal or a computer. Everyone has a different situation and different priorities and your comments are loud and clear and understandable and I commend you for your "no shit attitude"-- its just not me. Be very very prepared and be safe god forbid you need to follow up on your priorities.
 
I tend to agree with Kelcarry on this issue but that does not detract from your right to protect your "stuff". It's a personal choice, like everything else. I don't feel that I could handle blowing away some kid who was attempting to steal my truck out of my driveway. Actually, this happened once years ago when I was young and stupid. I actually reached in and yanked the little bastard out of the truck. He promptly got the shit kicked out of him by my cousin and sent on his way. Never did call the cops; we took care of it ourselves. Looking back, it was somewhat stupid, I suppose, as the idiot could have shot ME, had he had a gun. Now, If I look out the window and see this happening, I'm gonna call the cops; the next call will be the insurance company. BUT, if someone is in the house in the middle of the nite rooting around, that's a horse of a different color, as I'm gonna assume they're there to hurt me and mine and will react accordingly. So, like I said, for me, depends on the situation. Here's the kicker for me: we ain't taking it with us, why worry so much about it? (Hey, I'm old...this is the way it's starting to feel...)
 
Reading these posts should enlighten people as to the threat out there. Good, honest, hardworking and normally law abiding people have stated that they feel they have the "right" to kill somebody who offends them by stealing something from them. I have seen good Christian people turned into killers by the military. I am not saying there is not a reason for this, as a combat veteran I am one of them and feel no shame for my service. I am just stating that anybody can be a killer, given the right circumstance and the right "trigger event." The killer instinct is latent within all of us and can brought to the surface by circumstances. It isn't just the crack driven BG out there that is a threat. On a bad day, it can be your normally docile, church going, PTA attending, soccer dad neighbor who suddenly opens up on you with his newly acquired AR 15. This is the reason I carry. I don't intend to be your victim.
 
wjh2657 said:
Reading these posts should enlighten people as to the threat out there. Good, honest, hardworking and normally law abiding people have stated that they feel they have the "right" to kill somebody who offends them by stealing something from them. I have seen good Christian people turned into killers by the military. I am not saying there is not a reason for this, as a combat veteran I am one of them and feel no shame for my service. I am just stating that anybody can be a killer, given the right circumstance and the right "trigger event." The killer instinct is latent within all of us and can brought to the surface by circumstances. It isn't just the crack driven BG out there that is a threat. On a bad day, it can be your normally docile, church going, PTA attending, soccer dad neighbor who suddenly opens up on you with his newly acquired AR 15. This is the reason I carry. I don't intend to be your victim.
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Except that that isn't what happens. Look at the crime statistics. Most all crime is committed by repeat offenders. Not "good Christian people". The other thing is you seem to at best misuse the term "killer". Yes, the average guy might kill under certain circumstances. But because of the circumstances, that is dramatically different than a gang banger, or armed robber, or murderer. You sound like you are spending too much time listening to the Brady bunch.
 
Hey wjh2657: I have to agree with maybejim. If you really read all the posts to this thread and even read between the lines I think you will find that the majority of this forum's posters are responsible and sensible individuals who understand what it means to CC and what it means to take your gun out with intent to use it. In the confines of a computer room, I think that some people tend to let their real thoughts come out in posts even though their actual actions will be much less than using their weapon. I can honestly say that although I cannot understand how you can really kill someone or risk your life over "stuff" or a "wife insult", when I sit in my house and read posts and think about some cretin stealing from me, I can work myself into a thought pattern that makes me smile as I think about sticking my gun down someone's throat if I catch them stealing or if they were to spit on my wife. There are forums out there, however, that really scare me when I read about individuals with 50,000 rounds of ammo and an arsenal of assault rifles with every gadget imaginable on them. Even with those posts I cannot but believe that many of those posters are really skinny little men with no girlfriends who are sitting at their computers racking their shotguns (and I do not mean their real shotgun, I mean the one they were born with) as they talk a big talk.
 
And I think some of you need to get your head out of gun forums and pay heed to what is happening in the real world. One: I am not a "Brady Bunch" follower. BTW the Brady Bunch were Republicans not Democrats (convenient to forget that in these Obama days). I am neither, I am independent. I also EDC 24/7 with a TN HCP.

Now back to threats. In the last six months we have had in Tennessee:

Two "Road Rages" one ending in shooting and one just a citizen waving a gun around . (Both subjects were HCP carriers.)

Four shooting/suicides involving family members (Husband, wife and kids).All were "straight" citizens not crackheads or gangbangers. (all had lost jobs and were in financial morass.)

Two Hostage standoffs ending in murder/suicides. Each in shooter's own home. (Both shooters were estranged husbands with no records or history of mental problems)

I am not saying that the majority of the incidents are involving people other than criminals. In fact the incidents involving JohnQ's are in a small minority but the point is they do exist. Somebody automatically jumped on this as an antigun stance. The point was the opposite: you need to carry and be alert at all times because there are more threats out there than just ethnic gangbangers abd MethHeads.

I do not subscribe to the belief that all legal gun owners and HCL/HCP holders are wonderful caring law abiding people. We have some weirdos in our ranks too. and that is the point, be alert, you can't tell from what direction a threat may come. I don't think we need to be paranoid, but the fact is that anybody out there could kill you, and you may never know their reason. Don't be paranoid but do be alert and aware.
 
When I read this story I immediately thought about this thread about to ID or Shoot.

Cops: Man kills fiancee 1 day before wedding - Crime & courts- msnbc.com

WINTER SPRINGS, Fla. - A man who thought there was an intruder in his house shot and killed his fiancee the day before they were to be married, police said Friday.

"Right now everything points to a tragic accident," Police Chief Kevin Brunelle told The Associated Press, adding investigators were awaiting forensic results.

John Tabutt, 62, told investigators he got his gun when he thought he heard an intruder, then fired at a figure in the hallway, according to Brunelle. It was Tabutt's live-in fiancee, 62-year-old Nancy Dinsmore, who family members say he was going to marry Saturday. Tabutt told authorities he thought she was next to him in bed the whole time.

A message left for a phone number listed for the house was not returned.

Brunelle said no charges have been filed against Tabutt, adding the information he provided has been verified and he appeared "very distraught."

Tabutt was "very concerned about her well-being," standing by while she was pronounced dead at the scene by paramedics, Brunelle added.

'They loved each other'
The couple planned to wed in a small ceremony Saturday at St. Stephen Catholic Church in Winter Springs, Dinsmore's son-in-law Scott Sposato, of Vero Beach, told the Orlando Sentinel.

"They loved each other," he said. "It was quite apparent."

Tabutt called 911 shortly after 2:30 a.m. Friday, moaning and sobbing, the newspaper reported.

"I thought I had an intruder in the house," he told the emergency dispatcher. "Honest to God, she looks dead."

He then thought he heard her take a breath.

"Hang in there, Honey. Hang in there," he said.

Winter Springs is about 15 miles north of Orlando.
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Hey FN1910: Certainly a tragic story in your last post. I do not think we can emphasize enough the tremendous responsibility anyone with a gun has with that weapon in their hands. Personally I lock my bedroom door and use one of those rubber door stoppers under the door. If my wife goes out to the kitchen for something in the middle of the night, she may close the door but she cannot lock it and she cannot put the door stopper back in place--if the door opens easily, it cannot be a perp--if the door is being forced because of the lock and the stopper it will be noisy and it will get my attention and it could not be my wife; I would still take a good look with a flashlight aimed at the door at a location that I am not at ( i will position myself away from the light so if a perp does look in he will see the narrow light beam but not me) so that I can at least be 100% before I defend myself and my wife.
 
My wife and I are both 54 years old. While I'm an ex-Marine, I haven't fired a weapon in 34 years. We've lived in middle-class nice neighborhoods in California, and now in suburban Georgia all this time.

We are, because of our own personal financial crisis, moving to an apartment in Huntsville, Alabama. I am very concerned about the upsurge in crime, specifically home invasions and robberies, in that area and we will be training and arming ourselves.

I have found some of this thread to be very enlightening regarding home defense and am grateful for EVERYONE's perspective.

We also tend to insure our stuff so my primary concern is self defense, and not stuff preservation. I'd rather let some idjit get away with the plasma (if he can carry the dang thing with my dog nipping at him) than take a life when my own safety can be assured by a locked door and a well thought out plan.

That being said, we plan to take gun safety and home defense courses as well as get out to the range as often as necessary to stay sharp.

The wife has shot before a couple of times and wants one of those "Pink Lady" 38 special revolvers. I'm interested in a Bersa Thunder 9mm Ultra Compact 13+1 for carry and home defense. At some point, I'd like to add a 12 guage to that.
 
GunShizzel said:
My wife and I are both 54 years old. While I'm an ex-Marine, I haven't fired a weapon in 34 years. We've lived in middle-class nice neighborhoods in California, and now in suburban Georgia all this time.

We are, because of our own personal financial crisis, moving to an apartment in Huntsville, Alabama. I am very concerned about the upsurge in crime, specifically home invasions and robberies, in that area and we will be training and arming ourselves.

I have found some of this thread to be very enlightening regarding home defense and am grateful for EVERYONE's perspective.

We also tend to insure our stuff so my primary concern is self defense, and not stuff preservation. I'd rather let some idjit get away with the plasma (if he can carry the dang thing with my dog nipping at him) than take a life when my own safety can be assured by a locked door and a well thought out plan.

That being said, we plan to take gun safety and home defense courses as well as get out to the range as often as necessary to stay sharp.

The wife has shot before a couple of times and wants one of those "Pink Lady" 38 special revolvers. I'm interested in a Bersa Thunder 9mm Ultra Compact 13+1 for carry and home defense. At some point, I'd like to add a 12 guage to that.
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Good mind set Gun, but for one correction , there is no such thing as an ex-Marine , only Former Marines .

Semper-Fi brother :sarcastic:
 
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