ID target or Shoot

[RugerP345]

Two people break down your door, enter your house brandishing weapons, and yell "police! get on the ground!"

Do you believe them?
Does anyone know of a case

NO. First of all, you pretty much know (or should know) if you are a wanted felon. Basically, I KNOW I haven't done anything wrong, so there's no reason for the cops to come busting down my door.
If you have unpaid traffic tickets or misdemeanor warrants, they don't bust down doors for that, at least not in my town. They knock on the door and leave a business card for you to call them and turn yourself in, or they just wait and pick you up in a traffic stop.

Now, if they simply make a stupid mistake and bust in the wrong house, then it's every man for himself.




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[RugerP345]

If they're strangers wandering around my house without permission, I would hope so.



I might shoot them anyway. Depends on circumstances.



Of course it is based on an IF. IF it's my brother in law...bad example..:sarcastic:.IF it's my son, I wouldn't shoot.



I don't live in an Apartment and there are no maintenance men that have permission (or the legal right) to be in my house without permission. Any maintenance man that comes in without knocking is certainly liable to be shot and in sane locations without a million dollar civil liability suit.



If they are wandering around my house in the middle of the night and I don't know them, they've been identified enough. My kids are grown and know better than to slip into my house unannounced (and don't live anywhere close). I always identify where my wife is if I hear a bump in the night. No one else has any business in the house.

Guess it depends on the individual circumstances then. The maint. man comes in to change the filters every few months. Since I work nights I'm usually asleep during the day when he comes. If I simply shot at a silhouette of a short fat mexican coming down the hall way then I'd have to change my own filters! :sarcastic:

Plus, my son has a key. Scraggly looking, long hair, pierced crap in his eyebrow and lip. Stepson in college has a key. Maybe one of them once-every-few-months that he comes home at night drunk from his frat party.

See where I'm at with this? I just can't go blasting away in my house. Maybe you can in yours.

 

[RugerP345]

Two people break down your door, enter your house brandishing weapons, and yell "police! get on the ground!"

Do you believe them?
Does anyone know of a case

The joint task force of ATFD and county police attempted to carry out raids on two apartments in the same building while retaining the element of surprise: this raised the sense of urgency. The raid team wore "street clothes" to blend in with the "high crime" neighborhood.

In Apt. 102 the raid team found only two minor children present (a small child and a slightly older babysitter); the agents left a note for James Russell Thomas.

The raid on Apt. 2 was conducted at 8:30pm. The apartment had a solid metal door that opened onto a utility corridor that led to the apartment complex laundry room; Ballew kept that door blocked with furniture. Apt. 2 also had a glass door that Ballew used to enter and exit his apartment. The glass door allowed visitors to identify themselves and their purpose for admission. The raid team entered the utility corridor by a service entrance and approached the solid door to avoid being identified by the occupants.

ATFD agent William H. Seals claimed he knocked on the door, announced "Federal officers with a search warrant, open up." No one opened the door but by placing his ear to the door, Seals heard indistinct sounds of movement inside. ATFD agent Marcus J. Davis decided the occupants had heard the knock and call-out and had been allowed enough time to open the door. Davis ordered the team to breach the door with a battering ram.

Saraluise McNeil claimed that Ken Ballew was in the bath and that she was half-dressed in the bedroom. When the battering ram was first applied to the door, McNeil panicked. Ballew then got out of the bathroom and grabbed an 1847 Colt Walker revolver. McNeil claimed that they believed burglars were invading their home and that she armed herself with her own revolver based on that belief. The door was designed to defeat burglary attempts and took six blows to break open.

ATFD agent William H. Seals in civilian clothes (but wearing a badge) came through the door first and saw a nude man in the hallway aiming a revolver at him. Seals yelled to the county officers behind him "He's got a gun!", drew his own pistol from his holster, fired a shot and moved to the left.

In the corridor, County Police Officer Royce R. Hibbs heard the warning "He's got a gun!" followed by a gunshot; Hibbs came through the door next, ducked to the right, firing several shots as he moved.

Officer Louis Ciamillo was third through the door. Ciamillo took aim at Ballew and shot Ballew in the head. Ballew fell to the floor. It was after Ballew was hit and falling that his antique handgun discharged a single round. Ballew's only shot struck the wall at an angle to the hallway at floor level in a downward direction.

After the assault, the officers quickly began justifying their actions. "They [the BATF officers] went outside, still dressed as hippies with beards and in scruffy clothes, and at which time they first put on their BATF armbands to show that they were law enforcement officers engaged in proper exercise of their legal authority, and that they had given proper warning to the individual of their authority which, in fact, they had not."

No trials and no convictions resulted from the raids on Apt. 102 and Apt. 2 at 1014 Quebec Terrace on 7 June 1971. Ballew survived his head wound but suffered brain damage. Ballew filed a tort suit against the United States.

Ballew's attorney pointed out exculpatory evidence ignored by the ATFD. Ballew was a former US Air Force (USAF) security policeman with a clean military record. At the time of the raid Ballew was gainfully employed as a printing pressman at the Washington Post newspaper and was a Boy Scout troop leader. He was a member of the National Rifle Association (NRA) and owned a collection of legal firearms, mostly Civil War era reproductions.

 

[tcox4freedom]

....1st Call the police, if little time is available dial 911 put phone in your pocket
2nd grab your firearm, and flashlight or combination thereof
3rd locate intruder with light off
4th turn on light while yelling "Hey you Stop!!"
5th as the bad guy turns most of the way you get get A, Identification and B. a nice clear shot

I almost agree here. However, calling the police would come after---
1. Grab gun and flashlight.
2. "Quietly" locate the intruder with the light OFF (it could be a member of my family)

3. "IF" it is determined that it really is a BG, Try to move to cover/concealment or a "safe" room;

I live in SC, a "castle doctrine" state; so this step would "NOT" be necessary. But, I would still do it; IF possible? I'm not anxious to kill anyone. (I know what it feels like to think you may have ended someone.) THEN call 911.

4. Let the BG know you are on the phone with the police.
5. IF the BG advances instead of leaving, well?


BTW;
I have been the victim to several burglaries (3 while at home) and two home invasions. (ALL years ago!)
I can tell you 1st hand the difference:
ONE: With a burglary the BG'(s) are usually trying to go UN-noticed so stealth and quiet can work for "your" benefit.
TWO: Home invasions are VIOLENT and FAST! (The BG's are definitely there to hurt or kill YOU!)
THREE: Todays burglars are a more violent breed than they were in years past. So IF they discover someone is home, things can escalate to violence in a heartbeat. (This is why I say grab your gun 1st!)

IMO: You need to be able to protect yourself FIRST.

(If you take the time to call 911 before you arm yourself, it could be all over for you.)

 

[RugerP345]

I have been the victim to several burglaries (3 while at home) and two home invasions. (ALL years ago!)

Damn, where do you live, Afghanistan!

 

[maybejim]

Guess it depends on the individual circumstances then. The maint. man comes in to change the filters every few months. Since I work nights I'm usually asleep during the day when he comes. If I simply shot at a silhouette of a short fat mexican coming down the hall way then I'd have to change my own filters!

Of course it depends on the individual circumstances. I'm the maintenance man at my place.

Plus, my son has a key. Scraggly looking, long hair, pierced crap in his eyebrow and lip. Stepson in college has a key. Maybe one of them once-every-few-months that he comes home at night drunk from his frat party.

My kids don't have a key. They know where one is hidden but they'd never use it without letting me know and they'd never come in the house without calling first. It's called common courtesy.

See where I'm at with this? I just can't go blasting away in my house. Maybe you can in yours.

First, I never said go blasting away. But yes, if someone I don't know is in my house, I might very well shoot them because they have no business being there and I have to assume (for my safety and the safety of my wife) that they are there to do me no good.

 

[tcox4freedom]

Damn, where do you live, Afghanistan!

Almost as bad! I used to live in Memphis.