Here how you keep Gun crimes down

[FN1910]

Who knows what criminal think. One study I saw said that after interviewing thousands of inmates they found that approximately 85% said that getting caught was the last think on their mind when the committed the crime. The possibility of punishment no matter how little or severe was not a concern because they felt they would not be caught. You can take that however you want to but it is worth a thought and fits in with the stereotype that we have of criminals. Most think they are too smart to get caught and if they do it was because someone sold them out and framed them. Just like all those that have been turned loose due to new DNA evidence. In one report I read about out of the over 100 that were turned loose due to new DNA testing only one had actually been cleared. All of the others the evidence just indicated that it could possibly have been someone else. In one case the person charged and convicted had eyewitness accounts against him but they later found that a second person's DNA was also at the scene and was not brought up in the original trial.

 

[Drunkbeater]

criminals might think twice about what they wanted to do. Studies have shown that criminals don't care about the crime or in some cases even getting caught, but they care about the punishments.

Unfortunately that is not true. People who commit crimes, particularly violent crime, don't make assessments of risks and rewards. That is why every culture that has tried to control crime with punishment has failed to achieve the objective.

That's the stupidest thing I've heard. A mugger would not rob someone if they knew there was no chance of getting away with it, unless they wanted to get caught. Murderers and rapists assess the risks all the time. When a murderer tries to hide evidence, that could have been planned out (assessed) before the crime. I have never heard of a rapist that didn't care about getting caught. Although they're cowards, their desire for their reward (sick pleasure) outweighs the risk. That doesn't mean they don't think about getting caught.

What other way is there to control crime without punishment? Treat everyone as a criminal? Has there been a culture that has not used punishment to deter crime? How many cultures? Which ones?

 

[ironmike86]

Ppl take these forums to serious. i was just showing what one country does. Ppl are always going to argue why it will or why it won't work. Cracks me up

 

[Drunkbeater]

Who knows what criminal think. One study I saw said that after interviewing thousands of inmates they found that approximately 85% said that getting caught was the last think on their mind when the committed the crime. The possibility of punishment no matter how little or severe was not a concern because they felt they would not be caught. You can take that however you want to but it is worth a thought and fits in with the stereotype that we have of criminals. Most think they are too smart to get caught and if they do it was because someone sold them out and framed them. Just like all those that have been turned loose due to new DNA evidence. In one report I read about out of the over 100 that were turned loose due to new DNA testing only one had actually been cleared. All of the others the evidence just indicated that it could possibly have been someone else. In one case the person charged and convicted had eyewitness accounts against him but they later found that a second person's DNA was also at the scene and was not brought up in the original trial.

Like I said, many criminals don't care about getting caught. For some (gang bangers, thugs), it is a rite of passage to do hard time. What they do care about are the punishments. Maricopa County, AZ has the lowest number of repeat offenders in the nation because Sheriff Joe Arpaio will PUNISH inmates by making them brake rocks. If they want to watch TV, they have to power it up with a treadmill or stationary bike. They get only food that they need to survive (ham sandwiches and water). These are all punishments and they all work.

 

[Drunkbeater]

Ppl take these forums to serious. i was just showing what one country does. Ppl are always going to argue why it will or why it won't work. Cracks me up

Really, thanks for your post.

 

[ironmike86]

Really, thanks for your post.

I just thought it was cool what they did an they have hardly any crime. But everyone else knows that would
be impossible I guess.

 

[GOV5]

It aggravates me when folks use percentages to prove a point, and this is a great example of why. In the entire State of Alaska for an entire year...there were 19 murders..... really? Heck, there are cities that have close to that in a week. With ONLY 19 murders is a State, the headline should be " HOW ALASKA CONTROLS CRIME! ".

 

[ironmike86]

It aggravates me when folks use percentages to prove a point, and this is a great example of why. In the entire State of Alaska for an entire year...there were 19 murders..... really? Heck, there are cities that have close to that in a week. With ONLY 19 murders is a State, the headline should be " HOW ALASKA CONTROLS CRIME! ".

I put a link on gun violence in Alaska because someone said they had the highest crime rate? Not with guns I don't see it. Theres 2x as many in the cities near me. I'm not the one saying it has a crime rate with gus. Thats why I put up a link. So what wrong with the pecentages?Maybe ppl should read the whole thread?? Dunno

 

[BC1]

People who commit crimes, particularly violent crime, don't make assessments of risks and rewards. That is why every culture that has tried to control crime with punishment has failed to achieve the objective.

Very true. Many violent criminals are afflicted with anti-social personality disorder. This psychiatric illness is characterized by certain behaviors. These are primarliy:

- They exhibit a limited range of human emotions
- They're driven purely by self-gratification
- They lack remorse or guilt for their actions
- They're callous
- They lack the ability to feel sympathy or empathy for their victims
- They're pathological liars
- They're conning and manipulative
- They lack impulse control and exhibit poor behavioral controls such as restraint
- Fear of punishment never enters the decision loop. It is overridden by the impulsive nature of the disorder.
- Many exhibit a superficial charm and grandiose sense of self worth
- They fail to conform to social norms and lawful behavior
- Psychotherapy generally has little affect, thus the high recidivism rate.
- They posses and incessant need to continually explain and rationalize their actions. IE; Child molesters regularly argue that they are a positive influence on their victims. A good example of this is Jerry Sandusky.

Criminal recidivism is highly correlated with this disorder. The psychopath is defined by an uninhibited need for self-gratification. The criminal, sexual, or aggressive impulses represent the inability to learn from past mistakes. These people are wired differently than most of us. They don't have the ability to function within social norms. You almost can't blame them for their inability to function within society. This psychiatric condition affects roughly 2.5% of men and 1% of women in America. We should think about that statistic next time we send our kids to the mall.

Child molesters are a great example. Sooner or later that child will grow up and possibly accuse his/her abuser. Yet when the opportunity arises the impuslive nature of the disorder overrides rationalization of the possible future consequences.

 

[Nightmare45]

There is no supportable data available that says more guns equal more violance, ban cars they are used in drive by shootings, robberies all the time. Once you chose to commit a crime, YOU made the decision to commit the crime not your car or the gun you stole.

 

[nogods]

That's the stupidest thing I've heard. A mugger would not rob someone if they knew there was no chance of getting away with it, unless they wanted to get caught. Murderers and rapists assess the risks all the time. When a murderer tries to hide evidence, that could have been planned out (assessed) before the crime. I have never heard of a rapist that didn't care about getting caught. Although they're cowards, their desire for their reward (sick pleasure) outweighs the risk. That doesn't mean they don't think about getting caught.

What other way is there to control crime without punishment? Treat everyone as a criminal? Has there been a culture that has not used punishment to deter crime? How many cultures? Which ones?

Ignorance often calls knowledge "stupid."

The fact that cultures use punishment in response to crime doesn't support the assertion that crime is reduced by punishment. At one time everyone thought the sun revolved around the earth.

Perhaps you should read a bit more before firing the "stupidest" bullet:

CRIME, PUNISHMENT, AND MYOPIA, David S. Lee (University of California, Berkeley), Justin McCrary (University of Michigan), NATIONAL BUREAU OF ECONOMIC RESEARCH, 1050 Massachusetts Avenue, Cambridge, MA 02138 (June 2005)

ABSTRACT

Economic theory predicts that increasing the severity of punishments will deter criminal behavior by raising the expected price of committing crime. This implicit price can be substantially raised by making prison sentences longer, but only if offenders’ discount rates are relatively low. We use a large sample of felony arrests to measure the deterrence effect of criminal sanctions. We exploit the fact that young offenders are legally treated as adults——and face longer lengths of incarceration——the day they turn 18. Sufficiently patient individuals should therefore significantly lower their offending rates immediately upon turning 18. The small behavioral responses that we estimate suggest that potential offenders are extremely impatient, myopic, or both.

 

[fuhr52]

There is no supportable data available that says more guns equal more violance, ban cars they are used in drive by shootings, robberies all the time. Once you chose to commit a crime, YOU made the decision to commit the crime not your car or the gun you stole.

Well if guns cause crime let's ban cars because cars cause motor vehicle accidents. The largest crime areas are the getto's the liberals have created to take care of the people scewed by the rich. Maybe we should ban liberals.

 

[Drunkbeater]

That's the stupidest thing I've heard. A mugger would not rob someone if they knew there was no chance of getting away with it, unless they wanted to get caught. Murderers and rapists assess the risks all the time. When a murderer tries to hide evidence, that could have been planned out (assessed) before the crime. I have never heard of a rapist that didn't care about getting caught. Although they're cowards, their desire for their reward (sick pleasure) outweighs the risk. That doesn't mean they don't think about getting caught.

What other way is there to control crime without punishment? Treat everyone as a criminal? Has there been a culture that has not used punishment to deter crime? How many cultures? Which ones?

Ignorance often calls knowledge "stupid."

The fact that cultures use punishment in response to crime doesn't support the assertion that crime is reduced by punishment. At one time everyone thought the sun revolved around the earth.

Perhaps you should read a bit more before firing the "stupidest" bullet:

CRIME, PUNISHMENT, AND MYOPIA, David S. Lee (University of California, Berkeley), Justin McCrary (University of Michigan), NATIONAL BUREAU OF ECONOMIC RESEARCH, 1050 Massachusetts Avenue, Cambridge, MA 02138 (June 2005)

ABSTRACT

Economic theory predicts that increasing the severity of punishments will deter criminal behavior by raising the expected price of committing crime. This implicit price can be substantially raised by making prison sentences longer, but only if offenders’ discount rates are relatively low. We use a large sample of felony arrests to measure the deterrence effect of criminal sanctions. We exploit the fact that young offenders are legally treated as adults——and face longer lengths of incarceration——the day they turn 18. Sufficiently patient individuals should therefore significantly lower their offending rates immediately upon turning 18. The small behavioral responses that we estimate suggest that potential offenders are extremely impatient, myopic, or both.

What you posted supports what I said in the first place. We need the death penalty more often. Incarceration is not enough most of the time. In countries like Switzerland, where the government is in check and they use the death penalty, crime is lower than countries that try to rehabilitate. Singapore uses public humiliation (whipping) to deter crime. It works. Their overall crime rate is almost as low as Switzerland's. Punishment is part of a civilized society.

It's funny that you imply that I am ignorant when you haven't paid attention to what have said. You also haven't given one example of any successful culture that doesn't/didn't use some form of punishment. I'm still waiting...

 

[ironmike86]

I agree...If it's absolute proof. Like video of killer or many witnesses no doubt= Death penalty. I don't want to support them in prison for 40yrs

 

[NCIC105]

Yea we should never use punishment with criminals.

Let's all chip in to give them a latte from Starbucks and sing Kumbayah together...

For me, I'll slip a little something extra into their latte that will go boom at the end of the song!

We (TAX PAYERS) have spent millions to keep a maggot like Charles Manson alive! I'm fed up with the whinny a$@ Hollywood types that have no skin in the game! They will go to a prison or Governmental office and protest over a maggot, we are ready to execute, all the time not giving a darn about the Families whose lives have forever been changed by the persons action. Oh he was abused when he was a child, He was depressed; He was bullied. He was. He was. He was. It seems we are becoming a society that cannot accept responsibility for our actions. It is always someone else fault. Sure we did it but it was because...Because..Because!

Show me one country which does not punish criminals...One! Then I can show you one that will descend into anarchy and will destroy itself...

I think a good public hanging would do a lot to help deter criminals.

Thank GOD we have some folks in this country that have the nads to treat criminals as such.

Thank "GOD" we have Soldiers that will lay their lives on the line so we are free!

(If you are offended by the word "GOD", please don't waste your breath telling me about it because I frankly, don't have the time of concern how you feel!

OK I'm off my soap box "For now"

 

[filarks]

Civilian Marksmanship Program

Doesn't the CMP provide access to ppl thru a gvt directive to keep marksmanship alive in the US?

 

[BC1]

What you posted supports what I said in the first place. We need the death penalty more often. Incarceration is not enough most of the time. In countries like Switzerland, where the government is in check and they use the death penalty, crime is lower than countries that try to rehabilitate. Singapore uses public humiliation (whipping) to deter crime. It works. Their overall crime rate is almost as low as Switzerland's. Punishment is part of a civilized society.

It's funny that you imply that I am ignorant when you haven't paid attention to what have said. You also haven't given one example of any successful culture that doesn't/didn't use some form of punishment. I'm still waiting...

FYI... You're arguing with a very astute attorney. His statements are right on the money.

 

[MYGLOCK]

The US Government does provide guns but not to American citizens. Did we forget about operation Fast and Furious? Those were government furnished guns shipped directly to our enemies.

 

[Drunkbeater]

[/QUOTE]
FYI... You're arguing with a very astute attorney. His statements are right on the money.[/QUOTE]

Thank you, BC1...I really appreciate that. That obviously means he can't be wrong. FYI...every single one of your posts have been worthless/pointless/irrelevant. You pick fights and start arguments with everybody based on your misunderstandings. You're a bully.

 

[Unfettered Might]

Alaska has the the nations highest violent crime rate.

The point is that neither strict nor lax gun laws lead to lower violent crime rates.

Both "more guns = less crime" and "more guns = more crime" arguments are bogus. Both are false.

We do no service to the advancement of gun owners' rights by propounding arguments so easily dismissed.

It's like listening to two people argue over whether the sun goes around the earth counter clockwise or clockwise.

You are completely wrong...which isn't a surprise....well because its you.

I had a discussion about this very topic not long ago with a coworker. Often the UK will be touted as a prime example how no guns = less crime because they have vastly less crime than the US. BUT, they aren't being fair mathmatically because they have VASTLY less population than we do. When the numbers are crunched fairly, their rate is somewhere in the ballpark of 23:1 vs our 9:1. That's number of citizens to 1 crime. Its been awhile and I'm not certain 23 is exact anymore, but its 20 something. The 9 I'm pretty certain is accurate.

Anyone want to go check out those facts, use your googlefu and feel free.

I'm going to look into this Alaska thing....