FBI Says 9mm Is The Best Pistol Round


FBI said in its report. “There is little to no noticeable difference in the wound tracks between premium line law Auto enforcement projectiles from 9mm Luger through the .45 Auto.”

That would be hard for them to back that statement up.
9mm to sq inches = .099
45 to sq inches = 1.41

the larger the sq inches the faster blood and leave the body.
It is that simple.
 

Stan45 said:
FBI said in its report. “There is little to no noticeable difference in the wound tracks between premium line law Auto enforcement projectiles from 9mm Luger through the .45 Auto.”

That would be hard for them to back that statement up.
9mm to sq inches = .099
45 to sq inches = 1.41

the larger the sq inches the faster blood and leave the body.
It is that simple.
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Complete nonsense. I do not know where your fancy math comes from, but typical 9mm (.355 inch) JHP bullets expand to a maximum of 0.71 inch diameter and typical .45 ACP JHP bullets expand to a maximum of 0.9 inch diameter (both twice the original diameter). Assuming a perfect circle area, that would mean 0.4 square inches for 9mm and 0.64 square inches for .45 ACP. That's a 60% increase in area from 9mm to .45 ACP. However, bullets don't expand to perfect circles, rather they mushroom to stars. As I said in my earlier posts, a .45 ACP round is simply not twice as deadly as a 9mm round.

When it comes to wound tracks, there are also other effects that play a role, such as how quickly the round expands (if at all) and at which speed the bullet travels.

.45 ACP is deadlier than 9mm, but requires a bigger handgun to maintain that per round advantage. For comparison, lets look at two service weapons, the Glock 17 9mm with its 17+1 capacity and the Glock 21 .45 ACP with its 13+1 capacity. 17 rounds is 30% more capacity over 13 rounds, so the 60% per round advantage of .45ACP is offset by the 30% disadvantage of the guns capacity. Overall, the Glock 21 .45 ACP is still a better choice performance wise, but only by 30%.

As I said before, most caliber discussions are nonsensical as:

Most of what is “common knowledge” with ammunition and its effects on the human target are rooted in myth and folklore
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The FBI's decision is mostly based on the fact that their agents can't shoot straight:

LEO’s miss between 70 – 80 percent of the shots fired during a shooting incident
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The lower recoil of 9mm handguns provide better accuracy, while the higher capacity of 9mm handguns provide more hits on target. That's their motivation, from what I read.
 
Nothing said about penetration above, which matters A LOT. Calculate that and see what you get. Along with that comes energy expended in the target. These two factors matter as much as anything. I was priviledged (for a while) to have access to wound balistics data, which included pictures of shooting victims (both good guys and bad guys). Everyone has thier opinion on whether more shots with a lesser round, practicing shot placement is better than less rounds with a bigger bullet. Since shot placement is going to be a problem in combat for everyone, I'll take the .45 and feel like I have the advantage. Again, just an opinion from someone who has never shot anyone and never been shot.

Also, a 9mm might expand, but a .45 never shrinks.
 
Like I've said before, I've always been a big fan of the .45 acp. and I always will be. However, to me "PERSONALLY", my SIG P220 Elite 45 acp. is strictly a combat weapon of war or a full force SHTF scenario. The light weight, comfortable to carry openly or easy to conceal all day, compact 9mm, such as my Glock 43 loaded with the proper personal defense round (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwsVe1fxXLE) will suffice for any defensive scenario public or private that will present itself in my world.
 
Sniper4hire said:
Nothing said about penetration above, which matters A LOT. Calculate that and see what you get. Along with that comes energy expended in the target. These two factors matter as much as anything. I was priviledged (for a while) to have access to wound balistics data, which included pictures of shooting victims (both good guys and bad guys). Everyone has thier opinion on whether more shots with a lesser round, practicing shot placement is better than less rounds with a bigger bullet. Since shot placement is going to be a problem in combat for everyone, I'll take the .45 and feel like I have the advantage. Again, just an opinion from someone who has never shot anyone and never been shot.

Also, a 9mm might expand, but a .45 never shrinks.
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9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP service rounds, such as Federal HST, have the same penetration by design. Also, the energy numbers for Federal HST standard pressure rounds are 369 ft-lbs for 124 grain 9mm, 490 ft-lbs for 165 grain .40 S&W and 404 ft-lbs for 230 grain .45 ACP. The difference between 9mm and .40 S&W is 32% and between 9mm and .45 ACP only 9%. Note that bigger bullets require more energy in the first place to achieve the same penetration.

If you want to talk about better penetration and energy, you need to go to different calibers, such as 10mm, .45 Super or .460 Rowland. Carry what you want.

Link Removed
 
I've quit listening to the FBI long ago. I used to have a 9mm pistol loaded with Win PDX1 124+Ps and have a 40sw pistol loaded with Hornady CDFTX 165s. I compared them using Ballistic101.com.

9mm - 396 fpe at 1180 fps

40sw - 506 fpe at 1175 fps

The 40sw bullet is bigger and heavier and only 5 fps slower than the 9mm +P. Who's to tell me that the 40sw don't have a better chance of stopping the threat than the 9mm?
 
Be it a .380 or a .45, with two in the chest and one in the brain bucket the BG won't know what caliber bullet killed him, dead is dead. Nuff said.
 
Ringo said:
Be it a .380 or a .45, with two in the chest and one in the brain bucket the BG won't know what caliber bullet killed him, dead is dead. Nuff said.
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By and large, true. However, one time while off duty, my partner took fire from some thug's chopper. He returned fire with his Sig P228, scoring a headshot. All the 9mm round did was knock the thug out, he was released from the hospital a few hours later.
 
Another BankAmerica LAPD & Florida FBI massive shooting with many dead due to 9mm plinkers is in our 2016-2020 future!! I'll bet my 40sw Glocks on this!

Sent from my SM-G386T1
 
Morgue rarely sees 9mm deaths, that's from the FBI logs & stats! Stick with 40sw HST jhp, don't wimper out like liberals! [emoji31]
B]

B]


Sent from my SM-G386T1
 
Wild Dog said:
Same here. Those glorified lawyers and accountants don't know the first thing about urban combat or street survival.:rolleyes:

Carry a 9mm? Yeah right, I might as well blow joe dirtbag a kiss.:mad:
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Agreement 100%[emoji106] [emoji41]
Hunters never hunt with 9mm[emoji107]
10mm 45s & 40sw hot loads [emoji106]
Liberals in FBI mgt. Wear suits not kevlar & backup guns.
B]


Sent from my SM-G386T1
 
At least I tried to make some reasonable arguments. I guess we are now in the world of myths and folklore.

For what its worth (from my post #24): Federal HST 9mm 147 grain has 0.69 inches of expansion with 12.5 inches of penetration in heavy clothing covered gel, while Federal HST .40S&W 180 grain has 0.8 inches of of expansion with the same 12.5 inches of penetration. That difference in 0.11 inches of expansion really makes 9mm wimpy and .40S&W a dragon slayer, or NOT.

Also, we are talking about self defense and not hunting. There is a difference. One should know that.

FYI: James Yeager, Rob Pincus and Chris Costa all carry 9mm, so are many other well-known firearms instructors.
 
Over the years I have hear of a number of reports of bullets being stuck in the sternum, skull, nasal cavity.
Choose you ammo well.
 
bofh said:
At least I tried to make some reasonable arguments. I guess we are now in the world of myths and folklore.

For what its worth (from my post #24): Federal HST 9mm 147 grain has 0.69 inches of expansion with 12.5 inches of penetration in heavy clothing covered gel, while Federal HST .40S&W 180 grain has 0.8 inches of of expansion with the same 12.5 inches of penetration. That difference in 0.11 inches of expansion really makes 9mm wimpy and .40S&W a dragon slayer, or NOT.

Also, we are talking about self defense and not hunting. There is a difference. One should know that.

FYI: James Yeager, Rob Pincus and Chris Costa all carry 9mm, so are many other well-known firearms instructors.
Click to expand...

I personally prefer .45 ACP because I've trained with and carried one for so long that there are no discernible recoil issues for one thing, and I open carry the vast majority of the time, so there are no weight/size/concealability issues either.

That said, I also prefer well-reasoned arguments with cites and documentation when reading about ballistics and statistics.

And with that said, bofh wins this argument hands down.

And lastly, with that said, this has got to be at least the thousandth caliber-war thread on this site. Slow news week? LOL

Blues
 
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