Do you still conceal carry into posted "No Carry" businesses?

[BC1]

YOU might be talking about that, but I have ALWAYS been talking about natural RIGHTS (that the bor and constitution point out, a few of them anyway) so, you are talking to the wrong person (you quoted me... not someone else) My RIGHTS (and yours too) NEVER disappear or go away... if YOU decide to relinquish some or all of them to someone else,that is between you and them, and has nothing to do with me....


Not one solitary person on this world has power over me UNLESS I ALLOW them that power.

Now that's a fantasy. Exactly why we have castle doctrine laws. Your natural rights don't mean anything anywhere, especially on someone's private property. Try exercising them and someone may exercise his natural right to be left alone, to not feel threatened, to remove you... and... if you won't go or pose any threat (perceived)... to exercise laws of trespass and castle doctrine against you. Very dangerous position.
.
Once again... and this is learned in any basic 101 college course on government... the amendments are between you and the government, not you and any other person.

 

[FTG-05]

I've probably already posted in this thread, if so, I apologize, I'm not going back +3 pages and +100 posts.


Having said that:


I will never understand the obsession with the "is it legal" or "does it have the force of law" questions/comments about these type signs.

Slash-Gun signs are extremely easy to interpret: The owner of the establishment is saying: "I don't like guns and Gun Owners!" Legality and force of law issues are totally irrelevant!

Accommodate them! Spend ZERO $$$ and ZERO time there! It's easy! (and spare me the "but the next grocery store is 100 miles away stories).

Now, if you want to try and turn them around, more power to you - go for it! But spend money or time until the signs are down - don't!

Yes, I know, this probably pisses off the "concealed means concealed" morons and other spineless gun owners who can't live without their chiptole/cshitpotle/crapoltle/however you spell it fast food place. Tough. The fact of the matter is that if all gun owners took the slash-guns owners at their word, the $$$ (or lack thereof) would change their minds lickety-split. The only real question is will the CMC/spineless gun owners grow up or grow a spine?


My .02 FWIW.

 

[Nightmare45]

Simple answer "NO" I do not carry a weapon into a posted business, nor do I carry my wife, kids or money in either.

 

[snatale42]

Please think about that for a moment since being asked to leave (it isn't being .. asked .. to leave but is being required to leave) actually means you were ... caught... already in the act of trespassing. After all... if you weren't already trespassing then you wouldn't be being told to leave.

Trespass means being on/in property you do not have any right or permission to be on/in... and if there is a no guns rule then those carrying guns do not have permission and are.. trespassing whether they get caught or not.

Link Removed

Trespass to Land
-snip-
Every unlawful entry onto another's property is trespass, even if no harm is done to the property.
-snip-

and here is a cite and a link for the benefit of Axeanda45
Link Removed

Continuing Trespass

A trespass is continuing when the offending object remains on the property of the person entitled to possession.
-snip-

For a better understanding about trespass please follow the link above.

Getting caught is hypothetical. I could give a crap less about a dictionary definition of tresspass, My state doesnt base its laws on dictionary definitions. By LAW I'm not tresspassing until asked to leave and don't. Period the end.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4 using Tapatalk

 

[Rhino]

No matter the answer and no matter the reasons....
.

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

I'm not saying.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Yes, I know, this probably pisses off the "concealed means concealed" morons and other spineless gun owners who can't live without their chiptole/cshitpotle/crapoltle/however you spell it fast food place. Tough. The fact of the matter is that if all gun owners took the slash-guns owners at their word, the $$$ (or lack thereof) would change their minds lickety-split. The only real question is will the CMC/spineless gun owners grow up or grow a spine?


My .02 FWIW.

So are people who work for corporations that prohibit their employees from carrying firearms on the job and state such prohibitions in their employee handbooks also spineless gun owning morons? Or how about college students going to colleges that prohibit firearms on campus? After all they could choose to be employed elsewhere or go to school elsewhere.

 

[whodat2710]

Wow! 11 pages and still going strong.
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Know the laws in YOUR state, because they differ. For example, a simple "no guns" sign in SC means nothing since the law stipulates a specific size of sign, font size, posting location etc. for the sign to carry the weight of law. Not many posted businesses around here anyway.
-
That said, if it is a mom & pop business (ie. not a national chain or franchise) I will go out of my way to ask to speak to the manager and let them know that they are losing my business and that of my friends because of their sign. If you think that doesn't matter, think about how many small businesses are already having troubles because of Walmart or Lowes or any of the big-box stores that sell everything cheaper. Losing customers is no small thing.

 

[jg1967]

Is this a anti gun fishing trip to catch us people saying we break the law?

I don't carry where it's not legal.

 

[BluesStringer]

No matter the answer and no matter the reasons....

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

.
I'm not saying.

Nice try, but the 5th Amendment, just like the 2nd, is between the citizen and the government. There's no "witness against" one's self between citizens, there is only respect or blatant and willful disrespect.

 

[Stengun]

Howdy,

In Arkansas it's illegal to carry into a business with a "No firearms allowed" sign so I shop somewhere else.

A business owner or corp has the right to tell me that I cannot CCW on their property and I respect their right.

At the same time I have the right to take my business and money elsewhere. Their "No firearms allowed" sign means to me that "I do NOT want or need your money!"

Pretty simple.

Paul

 

[Stengun]

Howdy,

Now that's a fantasy. Exactly why we have castle doctrine laws. Your natural rights don't mean anything anywhere, especially on someone's private property. Try exercising them and someone may exercise his natural right to be left alone, to not feel threatened, to remove you... and... if you won't go or pose any threat (perceived)... to exercise laws of trespass and castle doctrine against you. Very dangerous position.
.
Once again... and this is learned in any basic 101 college course on government... the amendments are between you and the government, not you and any other person.

Gee, I didn't read the last couple of pages but I guess there's been a pissing match going on.

As much as I hate to do it I will have to agree with BC1 on this one.

In 7th grade Civics class the teacher, Mr. Utt ( I kid you not ), said that "Your Rights end where the next person's begins." And he said that over 35 years ago and I still believe it 100%.

Paul

 

[Axeanda45]

Howdy,



Gee, I didn't read the last couple of pages but I guess there's been a pissing match going on.

As much as I hate to do it I will have to agree with BC1 on this one.

In 7th grade Civics class the teacher, Mr. Utt ( I kid you not ), said that "Your Rights end where the next person's begins." And he said that over 35 years ago and I still believe it 100%.

Paul

Too bad the person you just quoted doesnt actually think so.... and it looks like you dont either....

My rights (yours too) EXACTLY LIKE YOU JUST SAID, end where the others begins.... that is the ENTIRE POINT OF MY ARGUMENT, yet YOU and all these others claim some "property owners ju-ju, "special magic" that nullifies what you claim to be supporting..... A Inanimate object of MY PROPERTY, ON MY PERSON harms (does not infringe) on ANYONES RIGHTS.........

 

[Axeanda45]

According to bczero, all of our natural rights only exist on our own property, no-where else.... I guess we can be killed (deprived of our right to life) anywhere we are that is owned by someone else.... We can be held captive and as slaves with no repercussions to the person enslaving or imprisoning us for just existing.... and I AM THE ONE WHO DOESNT KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

[Firefighterchen]

Too bad the person you just quoted doesnt actually think so.... and it looks like you dont either....

My rights (yours too) EXACTLY LIKE YOU JUST SAID, end where the others begins.... that is the ENTIRE POINT OF MY ARGUMENT, yet YOU and all these others claim some "property owners ju-ju, "special magic" that nullifies what you claim to be supporting..... A Inanimate object of MY PROPERTY, ON MY PERSON harms (does not infringe) on ANYONES RIGHTS.........

My Rights begin at my private property line...that's the line where your Rights stop if you cross over. Remember....

Sorry, you are wrong, because without that little object they wouldnt be infringing now would they........

Without the object they wouldn't be infringing.

With the object they are infringing.

Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app

According to bczero, all of our natural rights only exist on our own property, no-where else.... I guess we can be killed (deprived of our right to life) anywhere we are that is owned by someone else.... We can be held captive and as slaves with no repercussions to the person enslaving or imprisoning us for just existing.... and I AM THE ONE WHO DOESNT KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Bc1 is claiming Rights don't exist on public property? Yes, you can be killed on another persons private property, and without their permission to be the property your family will have a very hard time explaining why your life was more deserving than theirs on their property.

Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app

 

[Rhino]

Nice try, but the 5th Amendment, just like the 2nd, is between the citizen and the government. There's no "witness against" one's self between citizens, there is only respect or blatant and willful disrespect.

Anything you post here could be considered a public admission. While it likely won't stand alone as a confession in court, posts on the internet have indeed been used to cast doubt and indeed to assign an air of guilt to defendants at trial. So it isn't just a 'nice try'. It's perfectly applicable.

 

[FTG-05]

So are people who work for corporations that prohibit their employees from carrying firearms on the job and state such prohibitions in their employee handbooks also spineless gun owning morons? Or how about college students going to colleges that prohibit firearms on campus? After all they could choose to be employed elsewhere or go to school elsewhere.

Excellent question!

And no! Those that have to work at an anti-gun company, like Boeing where I worked for +32 years, are not spineless. Neither are the ones that have to attend college to get their degree and make themselves productive members of society (e.g. my daughter at Roll Tide in Tuscaloosa).

I'm talking about those gun owners that willingly and cheerfully walk past the "no guns" signs and spend money at places like: theater/movies, fast food places, etc. etc. etc.

Huge difference between getting your paycheck from an antigun company (e.g, Boeing) vs. where to get your next hamburger!

Gun owners have choices, it's the ones who willingly spend it at anti-gun companies that should take note!

 

[Cumberland]

Howdy,



Gee, I didn't read the last couple of pages but I guess there's been a pissing match going on.

As much as I hate to do it I will have to agree with BC1 on this one.

In 7th grade Civics class the teacher, Mr. Utt ( I kid you not ), said that "Your Rights end where the next person's begins." And he said that over 35 years ago and I still believe it 100%.

Paul

I liked the explanation of rights by another great man once. It is touched on half way through this video.
http://youtu.be/hWiBt-pqp0E

 

[telpinaro]

Howdy,



Gee, I didn't read the last couple of pages but I guess there's been a pissing match going on.

As much as I hate to do it I will have to agree with BC1 on this one.

In 7th grade Civics class the teacher, Mr. Utt ( I kid you not ), said that "Your Rights end where the next person's begins." And he said that over 35 years ago and I still believe it 100%.

Paul

The way I heard it was "Your right to throw a punch ends at the other guy's nose." No idea who said it, but liked it! :smile:

Sent from my SCH-I545 using USA Carry mobile app

 

[whodat2710]

And the question comes back to where your "rights" stop. If you own property (or rent it) does it extend throughout that property or not. This goes for business owners or homeowners.

 

[BC1]

According to bczero, all of our natural rights only exist on our own property, no-where else.... I guess we can be killed (deprived of our right to life) anywhere we are that is owned by someone else.... We can be held captive and as slaves with no repercussions to the person enslaving or imprisoning us for just existing.... and I AM THE ONE WHO DOESNT KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Now you read every word I wrote and nowhere did I say you can be enslaved, imprisoned or killed. All for entering private property? WTF?
.
From the perspective of the property owner... I don't know you. So I don't trust you. Wouldn't turn my back for 1 second on you. So I may tell you GTFO, disarm or be disarmed. You won't refuse to do what you're told. You friggin kidding me? Jesus, that's the basis of castle doctrine.