Do you pay attention to the signs? Follow the law?
- Thread starter Timothy2001
- Start date
Firefighterchen
OC for Tactical Advantage
They are two different entities, but both are considered private property, some states even consider your work your abode, outside your home.
I guess my question was asked in a way that we, as gun owners being gun friendly, would answer in only a specific way...my bad.
I'll have to think of a way to get my point across beyond saying people do have private property rights that should be respected by shopping and spending your money elsewhere.
What answer were you expecting? My answer, I thought, was very gun friendly - just not stranger friendly - whether or not the stranger is carrying a gun or wearing a badge and uniform.
Hi Timothy...I respect those laws...and I try to avoid those kinds of locations...
Firefighterchen
OC for Tactical Advantage
I agree your answer was fine, just trying to get those that say, "I don't understand how I'm disrespecting property owners rights by carrying past the sign," to realize that it is disrespectful. Not sure how to get my point across.
maine04619
New member
If it is illegal to do so spend your money ELSEWHERE!! Then send a nice Email to the company and tell then where why and how much you spent.
Bottom line in answer to the basic question posed as the headline of the thread. Yes I obey the law and any signs that inform me of the law. If you do not like them and choose to ignore them, be a responsible adult and fess up when confronted. This is not rocket science it is called being a responsible adult in our society. You don't like the law or it inconveniences you in some manner--tough yada yada and I hope it costs you time and money.
tcox4freedom
New member
Yes, I try to obey the law. But, there has been times where I've gone into a restaurant that I wasn't aware that served alcohol & didn't go back to the car. There has also been a time or two where I found myself somewhere & didn't see the gun buster sign until I was leaving.
Things can happen. :frown:
Things can happen. :frown:
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Bikenut
Guest
The following is all about me... if anyone gets their nose out of joint because they take exception to what I posted then...ummm.. perhaps some introspection is in order to discover why a nerve was hit.
As far as the law in Michigan is concerned I follow the law... period.
As far as private property owners using their private property right to ban guns from their property (and a business is just as much private property as is my own home.. the public being invited into a business in no way changes who owns the place and it isn't the public!) I respect the property owner's rules and I don't carry my gun into their business... because I don't go into that business.. period.
I do not see how can I expect my right to bear arms be respected if I disrespect the private property owner's right to ban guns on/in his property. I guess if I were a hypocrite I could just carry my gun in anyway thinking MY RIGHTS are more important than the rights of someone else just because I like MY RIGHTS and don't like his rights. I could even justify disrespecting the rights of the owner by saying that I have the right to defend myself no matter where I am while ignoring the fact that no one forced me to go into that business. I could have just stayed out of that business and not only kept my right to carry a gun but also would have respected his right to ban guns.... keeping both my ability to defend myself and my integrity intact.
Not to mention it just grates my innards to give money to someone who bans guns just so they can open another store that also bans guns.
As far as the law in Michigan is concerned I follow the law... period.
As far as private property owners using their private property right to ban guns from their property (and a business is just as much private property as is my own home.. the public being invited into a business in no way changes who owns the place and it isn't the public!) I respect the property owner's rules and I don't carry my gun into their business... because I don't go into that business.. period.
I do not see how can I expect my right to bear arms be respected if I disrespect the private property owner's right to ban guns on/in his property. I guess if I were a hypocrite I could just carry my gun in anyway thinking MY RIGHTS are more important than the rights of someone else just because I like MY RIGHTS and don't like his rights. I could even justify disrespecting the rights of the owner by saying that I have the right to defend myself no matter where I am while ignoring the fact that no one forced me to go into that business. I could have just stayed out of that business and not only kept my right to carry a gun but also would have respected his right to ban guns.... keeping both my ability to defend myself and my integrity intact.
Not to mention it just grates my innards to give money to someone who bans guns just so they can open another store that also bans guns.
chup
New member
Living in Ohio and saying the same thing.
The decision would be based on the legal weight the signs carry. In some situations the signs have no legal weight, so obeying the sign would be a courtesy to the establishment. In other locations the signs do carry the weight of law and the gun owner could face some stiff legal repercussions.
Here in Florida, at best, carrying a gun into an establishment that does have a properly posted sign, would be a misdemeanor trespass if the proprietor asks you to leave, you refuse and he called the police and the gun owner still refuses to leave.
Here is a site you can get individual state information regarding gun laws and the second site is a source for "no gun = no $$" cards to hand out when you run into the situation.
Not carrying into the doctors office can be a dicy call. I'd talk to the doctor in a round about way to get a feel for how he fells about guns and conceal carry. Some of the folks on here have already had this discussion with their doctors and have had good results.
Index of /states Link Removed
Ummm... Maybe you can clarify this statement?
Come on Chen, the discussion is about signs on a business. And I have to ask, would you invite a stranger in to your home to start with? No stranger crosses my threshold.
Every time this question comes up we all start quoting from our individual states laws. I just wish some of these guys would have enough sense to consult their own states laws before they start to bombard the site with questions they could answer them selves.
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Bikenut
Guest
I'm not a Constitutional expert either so I'll just give a quick explanation.
First of all ... the Constitution only protects our right to carry a firearm from the government... not another private person. That is correct... our right to bear arms is only protected from the government... just the government.... not your neighbor that makes a "no guns" rule for his privately owned home and yard... and not from the businessman's who makes a "no guns" rule for his privately owned business.
Secondly... private property is any property NOT owned by the government. Private property is not limited to just someone's home but is any and all property that a private individual/private company/private corporation ... owns.
Do you have the right to say "no guns" in your house/on your private property? And if someone disregards your rule do you have the right to throw (trespass) them out?
Because you own your home and your yard as your private property of course you have the right to make that rule and to throw them out...
Just because a business is open to the public the building/parking lot/lawn/ and even the stuff on the shelves is owned by someone and is their private property just as much as your home is yours. And that is why a business has the right to make a "no guns" rule and to throw out anyone who disobeys that rule.
Where folks often get confused is thinking that just because the public is invited in then the public has the right to make the rules, or that the public's rights trump the owner's property rights... and that simply is not true because, to begin with, the public does NOT have any actual "right" to be in a business... all the public has is an invitation to be there/use the property as long as the public obeys any rules. Disobey the rules and the invitation is revoked (the person is thrown out).
If you would like to delve into the issue of property rights a good place to start would be:
http://www.cato.org/pubs/handbook/hb111/hb111-34.pdf
I always respect the signs, even if they are profoundly absurd in making people feel protected. The only sign that could possibly do that would have to be much larger and at the end of a 2x4 and swung as a club. And even then it would not be very effective.
Firefighterchen
OC for Tactical Advantage
Refer to bikenuts post. Private priority is private property. If I am selling an item in my garage sell, I make the rules as to who gets to come onto my land. Same goes for businesses who are anti gun.
I have just recently become a BLS instructor, working on becoming an ALS instructor, I'm going to run class out of my home, if I didn't want anyone to wear a firearm or shirt that says instructor on it, I can make those rules.
My original question was because some people who haven't owned a business don't realize how personal it is. But we all have a home somewhere, so I was connecting the dots.
Good points BIke. Thanks for the link.
