Collecting money for charity and packing a gun...

[Oregon Vet]

I was reading another thread on here and there were some comments made about packing a gun/weapon while collecting money for charity. I've included some of the comments that were in that thread, and it does seem some on here DO think it would be good to be "armed" while collecting charity money.

My thoughts (at the bottom) seem to be in a different direction regarding guns/weapons and the public in general.

Why in the world these people aren't armed while they are handling "thousands of dollars" is beyond me.

Time to put the "Army" :triniti:

back into the Salvation Army!

Yeah, I don't understand why even a charity worker wouldn't choose to be armed when handling thousands of dollars.

And mess them up real good with Mag-Safe ammunition.:biggrin:

Really?

"We do as much as we can," he said. "But you just can't prepare for something like this. It's pretty random."

+1 SlapNuts.

Can't Prepare.........

How about:
Arm yourself, practice, and take some classes......... Oh wait then you'd just be a paranoid gun nut.

Sort of like: Got a hammer, thus everything is a nail.

I think I could be pretty safe in saying that NONE of their employee's are allowed to pack ANY weapons, guns or large knives.
To do so would be a total act of stupidity.

STUPIDITY??

YES. Stupidity.

What would happen if it were found out that some of the people manning the Salvation Buckets were packing guns or large knives to "protect themselves"?

I would probably be safe in saying their donations would take a LARGE drop. The "normal" public isn't into having "Santa Clause" pack a gun/knife while collecting money.

Same with Girl Scout cookies probably. If it got out Sara's dad packed a GUN while we were going around selling cookies there would be a LARGE percentage of the parents who would NOT let their kids be around you.

And THAT is a fact of life. And there ARE MILLIONS of "those" people who think like that.

And most of "those" people would say "You aren't looking too smart when you talk about packing a gun while collecting "public" money."

Try this in your local OfficeMAX or Home Depot: Walk up to a dozen different people and tell them you are packing a gun and ask them if that bothers them.

I would bet the manager would be asking you really quick what you thought you were doing and possibly the POLICE might even become involved (larger than 50% chance of that) because maybe the first or second person you asked that would go around the end of the isle and whip out their cell phone and call 911 and state "There is a guy here asking blah blah blah..."

and here come the police.

PLUS: If you add everything up and divide it down the middle, you have half above and half below.

IQ's too. That means that instantly, HALF of the people packing guns are BELOW average IQ. Not a good thought. Are those people smart enough to make the CORRECT decision when it is decision time? IF they have a LOT of common sense, they MAY make the correct decision... MAY.

Let us hope so.

As usual, this is just my personal opinion at the present moment.

 

[BigSlick]

What point are you trying to make here? Maybe I missed something.

 

[gdcleanfun]

Ken, perhaps that's the reason behind the whole "concealed" thinking.

 

[Oregon Vet]

What point are you trying to make here? Maybe I missed something.

Most people who have people working for them do not want their employee's packing guns. I don't want my employees packing a gun while working at my place of business either and I have had a CC permit for over 25 years.

Why in the world should you have to pack a gun while collecting charity money for the Salvation Army?

I see all kinds of "carry a gun", "kill them", etc comments on this board a lot. To me, a gun should be used to save my life and yes, if someone tried to carjack me or hold me up. But in 62 years I have had several guns pointed at my head, one a .32 and another was a .45. It did not require me pulling a gun to defuse the situation with someone ending up shot.

Sure, there are places I am sure, where people SHOULD wear a gun all the time. It sure seems like a poor place to live to me.

It is just about "Do you think people collecting charity money should be packing a gun?"

My opinion? If it is THAT dangerous, I am not interested.

If it is so dangerous I have to pack a gun every time I go out into my front yard even, then I better be looking for someplace else to live.

But, from the quotes, there are those who think people SHOULD pack a gun while doing charity work.

I think if you called the Salvation Army or Goodwill or some of those places, you might find that none of them want their employees to pack a gun, that if they do, they are fired on the spot.

Just part of the way it is.

It isn't any big deal. The old average rule. Fifty % probably can't understand what I write. I sure don't worry about it. I don't care if 100% can't. I type to try to keep from thinking of the pain I am in and that the pain drugs I am on don't work real well sometimes. They should, since they cost $819 & $1,523 each month, month after month. Laying in bed, trying not to move, water running from my eyes. Yes, I am laying in bed now, typing on this. Sitting up hurts too much. I used to have a good life too, jump out of bed, go to work, go take photos, work in the yard. Not for 4+ years now. And it isn't funny.

So, if it makes sense or not, sometimes I just don't care.

If only 1 person out of 100 or 1,000 understands what I am getting at, or none, that's fine.

Just my opinion of course. You DON'T even have to understand it. Just go to some other thread if you can't.

 

[Oregon Vet]

Ken, perhaps that's the reason behind the whole "concealed" thinking.

Yep, NO SEE, NO TELL.

Works for guns just fine, Debi.

But don't let whomever you are working for find out... if they have a rule against it. ... or bye bye job.

 

[smcnally]

I'm curious of why you have a CCW in the first place. If you live in a good area, avoid bad areas, and can see into the future to when bad things happen in good areas, then what is the need to have one (based on your description above). If that sounded sarcastic, it's because it was A fair number of people that carry concealed do it because you never ever know when something bad will happen. And, if and when something bad ever happens, I don't want to think to myself "Why did I leave my gun at home" while I'm tending to a loved one that is bleeding to death. What kind of service do you think you are doing to anybody by restricting your employees from carrying concealed? If nobody knows they are carrying, then what is the harm? Now on the flip side, all of your employees (and probably a lot of other people) know that you forbid them to carry a firearm while at work...Makes a great target for a disgruntled employee or customer doesn't it? They can come in and shoot a lot of people before the police arrive. You should really listen to Tom Gresham's GunTalk, he puts the whole purpose of carrying CCW into a perspective that most people cannot deny. It just makes sense to carry whenever you can wherever you can. It's not about being paranoid, it's about being prepared for the unexpected. IMO, it's like wearing a seatbelt. I don't wear a seatbelt only in areas that people drive like maniacs...do you?

 

[2beararms]

Hmmmm ... I spent four hours ringing a bell for the Salvation Army last Saturday and I was armed the entire time. I will be doing the same this afternoon and I plan to be armed then.

If I was just shopping at the store where I am standing in front ringing the bell I would be armed, why would I decided NOT to be when ringing the bell?

I don't know if there are "policies", I've never been told them. Show up and ring the bell, be jolly and people put cash into the bucket ...

Now I am not going to draw down on someone who grabs the bucket and runs, but it is just as likely that some gang banger may decide to draw down on me to "ask for the bucket" and even here I have the right to protect myself.

I choose to live where there are PEOPLE and where there are people there is the today danger. I live in what arguably the most desirable place on earth to reside ... Palm Beach County, Florida. But even with several of the top wealthiest areas in the country within our borders, we also have a major problem with poor and homeless which comes with not having winter. We also have major gang problems which now reach into our most luxurious areas. If there are kids in your area ... there are gangs ... DO NOT BE FOOLED!

Yes, gang related crime tends to stay in its "territory" and is generally addressed between rival gangs but the boundrys can stray, the target not be clear, or you may need to cross gang lines to get to where you are going. People get killed in sensless robberies for a few dollars or joy ride carjackings all the time. Carrying a gun is simply one additional layer of POSSIBLE protection, and believe me, I do not consider it the end all or the ultimate solution ... which unfortunately does not exist.

OK, I could move where there are little or no people. I could hole up on my compound of land with an arsenal and worry about the government guys coming to get me ... or I can live my life ... and do my best to protect it.

When I ring the bell for the Salvation Army it is to help to make the lives of those less fortunate a bit better. Those can often be found as close as the next corner. I do conceal the fact that I have a weapon, no one ever needs to know unless it is needed, and I consider myself well enough trained that I can say with confidence if anyone knows because it was needed ... they will thank me, not criticize me ... no matter what they think now because their life will just have been saved.

I feel sorry for those who feel the need to be Politically Correct.

Through political correctness in this country we shun our homeless to the bushes because we would be embarassed to let them build shacks in our parks.

Through political correctness in this country we extend our energy on things that make US feel better for having done something rather than finding things that acutally make the situation better

Through political correctness in this country we view the downfall of our society as though our minute efforts are actually effective all the while never really recognizing the problem which is only getting worse.

So when you see that person ringing the bell, who by the way is most likely a volunteer not an "employee", do not ask yourself IS HE ARMED? No, just make your donation or better yet ask him ... HOW CAN I RING THE BELL FOR A FEW HOURS?

 

[Oregon Vet]

I'm curious of why you have a CCW in the first place.

They were giving them away and I'm a sucker for free stuff.

If you live in a good area, avoid bad areas, and can see into the future to when bad things happen in good areas, then what is the need to have one (based on your description above). If that sounded sarcastic, it's because it was

None? What reason do I have for having an M-16? Besides the fact it is fun to shoot in FULL AUTO mode?

A fair number of people that carry concealed do it because you never ever know when something bad will happen. And, if and when something bad ever happens, I don't want to think to myself "Why did I leave my gun at home" while I'm tending to a loved one that is bleeding to death.

More power to you. How many times have you done that in the last 45 years? Zero for me in the last 50 years. I've owned guns that long. And NONE of those guns ever killed anyone either. ...well, maybe my .45, something fishy about its history and how cheap I got it.

What kind of service do you think you are doing to anybody by restricting your employees from carrying concealed? If nobody knows they are carrying, then what is the harm? Now on the flip side, all of your employees (and probably a lot of other people) know that you forbid them to carry a firearm while at work...Makes a great target for a disgruntled employee or customer doesn't it? They can come in and shoot a lot of people before the police arrive.

Dang, I am glad I am not around people like that, and I stay on friendly terms with the employees I fire. And the other 202 employees I have working for me right now all are happy. I should worry, eh? For what? You have a business? You piss off your employees? Bad thing to do. Could be like: If you are screwing around on your wife/husband. If nobody knows you are, then what is the harm?

You should really listen to Tom Gresham's GunTalk, he puts the whole purpose of carrying CCW into a perspective that most people cannot deny. It just makes sense to carry whenever you can wherever you can. It's not about being paranoid, it's about being prepared for the unexpected.

He has had to use his gun 32 times so far this year? How many times in the last 5 years? Does he frequent the wrong places he needs a gun? Oh no, he is the guy, who, when talking about guns, every other word seems to be: hehehe, haw haw haw he he he, I remember. How many "wrong" places do YOU frequent?

IMO, it's like wearing a seatbelt. I don't wear a seatbelt only in areas that people drive like maniacs...do you?

No, of course not. Why would I wear a seatbelt only part of the time? It is easier to not wear it at all. And to not crash into others.

Just my opinion, of course.

 

[2beararms]

Vet,

I re-read the original post concentrating on the "hurting" paragraph and I can emphasize to a point. I was diagnosed with cancer this year, spent about half of it in the hospital having major surgeries and now am dependent on pain meds and the like to exist.

I consider myself blessed that with the meds I can lead a sort of normal life and feel very depressed that your situation does not lend itself to that. The expense is bad enough and of course ludicrious, but the fact is that with today's medical expertise, pain management should allow you a degree of relief to be able to go on and live.

Do Not Give Up ... work with your doctors and anyone who will listen to find a solution that will get you off your back and return you to the world.

I am not trying to be some sympathetic wimp just expounding "feel goods" believe me ... I believe we get what we work for... so please, you can throw my hopes for your situation away, but in the mean time I will simply say ... Please have a Merry Christmas My Freind!

... and By The Way ... I wear my seatbelt in the parking lot!

 

[smcnally]

It sounds to me like you don't care about hte 2nd amendment at all. You only care about what fits YOUR purpose. You also seem extremely narrow minded. Don't ignore the fact that you'vce just been very lucky your whole life that nothing bad has happened to you. Bad things happen to good people all the time and to ignore that fact is ignorant. Also, don't ignore the fact that your thoughts on this matter are the same thoughts that will eventually ban guns all together...even for people like you that only like to carry and use them when they see fit.

 

[Oregon Vet]

It sounds to me like you don't care about hte 2nd amendment at all. You only care about what fits YOUR purpose.

Yes, I am sure the $1,000 I spent on NRA Life Membership is because when I was making $6 an hour and money was really tight, that I didn't give a damn about the 2A at all. Even bought my wife at the time an NRA Life Membership. I must have been pretty stupid, doing that, eh? And YOU are a NRA Life Member too, right?
IF you don't have all the money now, you can buy a membership on payments.

You also seem extremely narrow minded. Don't ignore the fact that you'vce just been very lucky your whole life that nothing bad has happened to you. Bad things happen to good people all the time and to ignore that fact is ignorant.

Wow, I have had loaded guns pointed at my head TWICE, touching me, not from 500 feet away... and you call me "very lucky your whole life that nothing bad has happened to you."
You have some weird ideas about "lucky". What do you call "UNlucky"?

Also, don't ignore the fact that your thoughts on this matter are the same thoughts that will eventually ban guns all together...even for people like you that only like to carry and use them when they see fit.

I would think that most people who are carrying a gun are people who "like" to carry them and do so "when they see fit."

And, you have NO idea whether I pack a gun or not, or when I pack one either. Well, unless you are psychic I suppose.

 

[astute]

I found the survey needed to allow multiple answers as I think it's ok and frankly I don't care if you do or don't.

 

[ricbak]

I found the survey needed to allow multiple answers as I think it's ok and frankly I don't care if you do or don't.

+1, Around here, Red Kettles are favorate targets.

 

[gdcleanfun]

Works for guns just fine, Debi.

You got that right!

 

[smcnally]

Yes, I am sure the $1,000 I spent on NRA Life Membership is because when I was making $6 an hour and money was really tight, that I didn't give a damn about the 2A at all. Even bought my wife at the time an NRA Life Membership. I must have been pretty stupid, doing that, eh? And YOU are a NRA Life Member too, right?
IF you don't have all the money now, you can buy a membership on payments.

What exactly makes you assume I'm not an NRA member? The fact that you are a lifetime member means nothing about your thoughts of the 2nd amendment. If you believed fully in the 2nd amendment then this thread wouldn't even exist. The right to bear arms means just that...not the right to bear arms, except when I think you shouldn't need to. Whether or not you permit your employees to carry while on the job is your decision. I have no idea what your company does, so I really can't comment on that. But, to say that someone collecting money for a charity should not be carrying a firearm or knife for protection is silly. That is you putting your beliefs above everyone elses.

Wow, I have had loaded guns pointed at my head TWICE, touching me, not from 500 feet away... and you call me "very lucky your whole life that nothing bad has happened to you."
You have some weird ideas about "lucky". What do you call "UNlucky"?

And after that you think that people shouldn't be able to carry where they want, when they want? You don't find that as a hypocritical thing to say?

I would think that most people who are carrying a gun are people who "like" to carry them and do so "when they see fit."

The difference is that most people that carry a gun where they see fit don't tell others that they shouldn't carry a gun where they don't see fit.

And, you have NO idea whether I pack a gun or not, or when I pack one either. Well, unless you are psychic I suppose.

The difference between you and I is that I don't care where you carry a gun. In my opinion, you can carry it wherever you want as long as you are following the laws. I don't feel that I know what is better for others. Do what you wish.

 

[ronwill]

With few exceptions I believe it is alright to carry concealed whenever someone legally able to do so wishes.

 

[HK4U]

I think that there is no difference packing and collecting money for charity than packing at any other time. I am not a clairvoyant so can not see the future therefore I choose to pack at all times rather than second guess when my life might be on the line.

 

[srshadwi]

PLUS: If you add everything up and divide it down the middle, you have half above and half below.

IQ's too. That means that instantly, HALF of the people packing guns are BELOW average IQ. Not a good thought. Are those people smart enough to make the CORRECT decision when it is decision time? IF they have a LOT of common sense, they MAY make the correct decision... MAY.

This may be true, but you are using very primitive logic. You cannot assume that the population of people who are licensed to carry concealed weapons has the same IQ as the general public. Like I said, this may be true, but not all qualities of the general public apply to the population of CCW licensed individuals. If this were true, you could say that the distribution of the number of violent crimes committed by CCW individuals was the same as the general public. We all know that this is NOT true. I would think that it takes above average IQ to go through the steps necessary to get a CCW license, but maybe others disagree. I also bet there are very few, if any, mentally handicapped people who are legally carrying, thus removing that group of people from the CCW distribution.

Anyway, to throw my 2 cents in. . . If I were collecting charity money in a Santa Outfit I would be carrying. No one would ever see the weapon, and if the news got out I was legally carrying a firearm I would offer them a choice. Either I spend my free time VOLUNTEERING to help you with a legally carried weapon, or I sit at home enjoying time with my family. Your choice. . .


Steve

 

[Oregon Vet]

I tried. I really did.

I tried. I really did. Yes, I did. Tried what? Tried to make people THINK.

Didn't work. Sort of a "I've got a permit, piss on the world and what they think."

About what I expected. WHAT was I HOPING for?

I was waiting for SEVERAL if not MORE of the posters to say:

"I called the Salvation Army and ASKED them if it were okay to pack a gun if I could legally to that AND they said .... yada yada yada..."

But, NO, not one person did as far as I can tell. I DID. SEVERAL of them. Local and National.

Some of the answers I received... one woman even went so far as to say:"We do background checks on ALL of our bell ringers, even volunteers, AND if they had EVER had a problem with VIOLENCE, then NO, they could NOT ring bells for the Salvation Army since only violent people pack guns."

THEN, I explained to her that to get a permit you could NOT have any violence on your record, you had to be clean as new snow.

She did NOT have a clue. So, I talked to her BOSS, he has a permit but doesn't pack while ringing. Talked to him quite a bit. Then talked to the regional director, a Major. He started asking "all these questions..." and I told him, whoa, slow down. And explained the facts to him.

ANOTHER person withOUT a clue.

I guess they are just a typical bunch of "hate guns" type of people.

Done.

I really wished a few of you would have called and posted that here instead of everyone doing the old "If I have a permit, the hell with them." answers.

Hey, have a Merry Christmas or whatever you normally do today, on the 24th of December. The best to you and yours.

 

[smcnally]

The question you asked is whether or not we think it is alright for someone to carry while collecting money for a charity, not whether or not they permitted to. If the Salvation Army doesn't permit it then what is the purpose of calling them? You have been an NRA member for close to 25 years and you don't permit your employees to carry at work, so how would we make them understand?

Merry Christmas to you too and get well soon.