Can We PA-leez Put the Sheep Dog Myth To Rest?

[Treo]

but you're right, you stand firmly against the idea that if you can help, can evaluate the situation to the point of knowing whether or not your intervention will actually help rather than hinder the situation, can show courage when the odds are against you (like Lenny Skutnik, not necessarily someone using a gun), then you won't. It ain't your business. You're not getting involved. And that's fine. You'd be in the way anyway.

You really seem to get off on calling me a coward and it’s funny to me because (unlike you) I actually have stepped up and been a “hero” I was even decorated for it by the department of the Army. I hate to be the one to bust your bubble but being a “hero” really isn’t a life changing event, it happens and life goes on.

In the moment you aren’t thinking about it you’re just scared. When it’s over the guy that puts in the paperwork to get you the medal has no problem putting you on K.P. the next day and by the time they actually get around to pinning it on you everyone (including you) is sooooo over it. They pin the medal on you, tell you what an asset you are to the Army, salute you and move on to the next guy and life goes on. I still had to salute officers; I still had to pull C.Q. I even still had to take dump every day and the only time anyone ever even mentioned the medal was when I had to go through a Class A inspection at Ft. Sam and all of the vets thought it was funny that the person inspecting us only had an Army Service Ribbon and a National Defense ribbon. I do admit it was amusing to watch her get a little bug eyed when she saw my salad bar.

20 years down the road, I don’t sit there with my wife and look at the citation, in fact I don't even know (or care) if she's ever read it, my kids don’t even know I have it and I don’t think the grandkids even know I was ever in the Army. So, as for my being a coward, I’m not and if you think I am, oh well.


As for the altruistic things that we do for other folks again, that’s not what comes across (or at least it’s not what I hear) when people talk about being a sheep dog so, if that’s what you guys are trying to convey you need to work on your communication skills.

I don’t see those things (again) as part of being a sheep dog or at least they aren’t what’s emphasized. I have paid for a stranger’s gas at a gas station before; I’ve also rendered first aid when needed and called the police to the scene of an accident. I’ve also taken homeless friends into my home and given people rides (although I certainly wouldn’t allow a stranger into my car now) but again those types of incidents aren’t what’s discussed when the word “sheepdog” starts getting thrown around. The topic then is usually plugging the bad guys at the Waffle House or the Burger King, or the ubiquitous two guys in a van abducting young girls at Wal Mart. IOW the word always seems to come up when you (generic) want talk about using your shinny new gun to be a “hero”.


It could be your loud voice as you take control of a chaotic situation.

I read this and I have to ask, “By what authority” are you taking control of a chaotic situation and what qualifies you to take such authority?" Because that, right there, is why the whole sheepdog mind set concerns me; because it’s all about a assuming a position that isn’t yours and claiming authority you don’t have.

What happens when you attempt to “take control of that chaotic situation” and the "sheep" tell you to frak off or ignore you entirely?

But I have no idea why it's important to you to put down those who would involve themselves in selfless acts of courage. It seems obsessive with you, what with that "the anti sheepdog" crap next to your nick. Whatever.
Blues

If you don’t understand my position by now maybe I need to work on my communication skills.

Again, to be very clear I don’t get “altruistic, self sacrifice for the good of mankind” when I read the term sheepdog, what I get is “I want to use my gun and be a hero, I want to pretend that having a Carry Permit makes me a de facto auxiliary police officer regardless of my level of training or judgment or even fitness . I want to assume a position of superiority over the “sheep” and I’m so desperate for something outside myself to validate my existence and my importance that’ll I will perpetuate this myth just to make myself feel good. "

That's what I hear when I hear "sheepdog"

I also see people (including nutnfancy and my buddy from work and the whack jobs from the "citizen's CB Patrol") that take that mind set and damn near make a religion out of it. This partially amuses me and partially scares the hell out of me.

 

[festus]

Treo, you are a sheep dog you are just in denial. your Service record pretty much proves it. I would classify you as a retired sheepdog and that is fine...thank you for your service to our nation.

I think your ire is in the fact that folks claim to be sheep dogs without having a single clue about what it takes day in and day out to put on whatever uniform and perform the duties that 99% of the populace either cannot or will not do for themselves.

I understand that. I also understand your I am not a sheepdog statement as possibly humility.

 

[BluesStringer]

It's not the potential that cowardice stops otherwise good people from stepping up that bugs me, in your case it's the lies you repeat even now in the face of incontrovertible evidence that gun-play is not the focus of the Sheepdog Concept that nutnfancy is the primary spokesperson for and promoter of. The video is linked for you, the Description was posted for you, yet you go on as though only your misperceptions of nutnfancy and the philosophy he both lives by and promotes are the only "truth" you're willing to consider.

You had it completely wrong in the Waffle House thread, and you have it completely wrong here. Like I said, it's like an obsession with you to put others down because.....well.....I don't know because what. Because you had to keep pulling KP after committing a selfless act? Because people didn't slobber all over you giving you kudos for months or years after your selfless act? Doesn't say much for how "selfless" the act was if that's your beef, but I admit, exactly what your beef is, is as elusive as the unicorn I've been hunting for the last few years.

You make excuses for being a rude, dishonest, cranky curmudgeon, Treo. That's all I see/hear when I read a lot of your posts. It's why you've been on my ignore list since the third or fourth post of yours in the Waffle House thread. I only saw what you posted here because somebody else quoted it, and I tried to give you a way to understand your mistake and recognize the truth, because I have peeked into a few of your posts of late and found profound understanding of The Truth on your part, and I know you are capable of seeing and understanding truth. But on this subject you refuse. So be it. I haven't the words or the inclination to try to bust through your obsessions against nutnfancy or anyone else who practices selflessness. I will refrain from peeking in on your posts from now on. It's a waste.

Blues

 

[Treo]

I'm really starting to wonder are my posts coming through in Chinese?

The following is the sheep dog post that started me on my "crusade"

The Honorable Burden We Bear : A Shooter's Duty

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The recent spate of heinious crimes in which firearms were misused have caused many to fear that this sport of ours is at an end. Indeed, as the musical chairs within the White House creak to a stop, we who would see the second amendment upheld are right to fear a corresponding cessation to our rights. These, then, are the burdens we must carry in this breaking age: a commitment to compart ourselves as honorable men and women, a drive to bring more shooters into the pack, and constant awareness of the political winds.

A Shooter's Duty

1. I will carry myself as an honorable individual, a veritable exemplar of honesty, gentility, and kindness as befits the critically reasoning individual that I am, so that others respect me and the culture that I bear.

2. I will always be ready to demonstrate to others the meaning of courage, fearing not to speak when lessen men might remain silent, even if it means that I may draw the baleful attention of the majority.

3. I will strive vigorously to teach others in the ways of firearms, demystifying the stultifying effects of Mainstream Media, and bringing more enlightened souls into our ranks.

4. I will care for my firearms, and regularly practice with them proudly, so that I will be competent in the hour of need.

5. I will be prepared to use my skills and knowledge to defend myself and others, even those who would seek the removal of my rights.

6. I will maintain relations with this our community of shooters, so that we are a unified body, and may respond en masse as a contigent of citizens to any threat.

Do you guys not get that people actually believe this crap?

Here's another

The Lonely Sheepdog

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That is part of the cursedness of the shotgun messenger...the loneliness of it. He is like a sheepdog. Feared by the flock and hated by the wolves. On the stagecoach, he is the necessary evil. Passengers and driver alike regard him with aversion, without him and his pestilential (strong) box, their lives would be 90 percent safer...and they know it.

The bad men...the rustlers...the stage robbers...hate him. They hate him because he is the guardian of property, because he stands between them and their desires...because they will have to kill him before they can get their hands on the coveted box. Most of all, they hate him because of his shotgun. The homely weapon that makes him the peer of many armed men in the turmoil of powder and lead.

--Wyatt Earp--

Still not convinced?

Be a sheepdog!

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I've always wanted some low-key way for permit holders to identify each others. And I'm a big fan of David Grossman's "On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs" essay.

So when I found these, I ordered four dozen, announced them on the local TwinCitiesCarry.com forum, and they sold out in a day!

Would you be interested in buying one or more of these? If there's sufficient demand, I'll make a big order and start selling.

One proviso: I'd really, really like these to be worn by card-carrying, gun-carrying permit holders.

I figure they would cost $2 each, plus USPS shipping per order as follows:
1-4 pins: $1.25
5-8: $1.50
9-13: $1.75
14-17: $2.00
18-19: $2.25
20+: Free shipping

Let me know what you think by voting in the public poll above. Voting isn't a commitment, of course, just a straw poll to gauge interest.

Thanks!

Andrew

And finally here's the one I reference the most

we're all LEO's

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In some way, we're all LEO's. We all have the responsibility to help uphold the law, to help those around us, and to be there for the general good of society. We just might not draw as often (hopefully) as the local PD does.

My response

Oh HELL no! I am not a cop I am not a sheep dog. I am not the guardian of the people.

All such an attitude does is aggrandize the CHP holder in their own eyes.

I carry a weapon for self ( key word there) defense

 

[Treo]

I really do wonder if I’m not communicating myself clearly let me put this in the simplest possible terms.

As I see it communicated on this and other gun forums the sheepdog meme is directly related to equating a CHP w/ a badge and a duty to respond to crime. The common factor isn’t membership in SerToMa or Kiwanis it’s carrying a gun.

The type of people I see that most vehemently claim the title appear to be folks with low self worth that are looking for something outside of themselves to make them important.

I truly believe that a large portion of their self image comes from the self perception that they’re somehow a guardian of society I also believe that is why they get so upset when people don’t buy into the fantasy.

I want to ask this question of Bluesstringer again very clearly and I really would like an answer
What gives you the authority to “take control of a chaotic situation”? “What qualifies to exercise said authority?” and finally “What happens when you try to “take control of a chaotic situation” and get told to take a hike?”

I really would like an answer .