Can We PA-leez Put the Sheep Dog Myth To Rest?


Punch

New member
I have to agree . A large part of the problem is people not willing to help each other , it doesn't have anything to do with playing Rambo. Could you look at yourself in the mirror or explain to your children why it was ok to let someone be attacked or killed when you could have stopped it?

Easily. All three of my children and my wife own handguns. In the case of the kids, many. And they have known how to load and shoot them since they were in the single digits. Two currently have CCWs and one OC's and is about to take a CCW class with my wife. They understand fully the need to protect themselves and have been trained to do so from a young age. Why should any of them die in order to save sheeple that are too stupid or cowardly to defend themselves? I may think differently if I see a brother or sister trying to defend themselves against a disparity of force. But to enter an area with an active shooter when the only defensive strategy of the "prey" is to hide and hope for the best? Sorry, I'm not stupid. I would rather face my wife and kids and explain why I did not enter than not be there to explain to them why I made their mother a widow and left them fatherless. If you care that little for your own family, I can't help you. A person who chooses strangers over his own family is no hero to me. He is sick.
 

Ringo

A WATCHMAN
To be perfectly honest “sheep dogs” scare me, they strike me as the type of person that is carrying a gun just waiting for a chance to be “a hero”.
Sheep dog is not an appellation I would care to have applied to me.

It has been my experience that those, in the permit holder community, who seek the title of sheepdog, tend to be authoritarians who use it as a means of self aggrandizement. They tend to derive their feelings of self worth from the position of quasi authority they assume their permit gives them.
Couldn't agree more.
 

JJFlash

New member
Treo, could you cite some statistics that would justify your fear? I'm thinking a lot of people have been carrying for a lot of years in a lot of states and the streets don't seem to be running with blood shed by any self-styled Sheepdogs. But maybe I missed it or something.

I'm a sheepdog, by any definition I care to choose.

I'll gladly try to save your daughter's life if I have a reasonable chance to do so.

You're welcome.
 

jg1967

New member
I had some discussions with "sheepdogs" and found that some may be gung ho wannabe heroes but not all of them.

What emerged to me was a different picture of what most of them are about which is more along the lines of preparedness - in relation to carrying a gun, equipment, training. A lot of them also have some emergency medical training.

The analogy really is very much flawed to begin with, I could not agree more.
 

FN1910

New member
This discussion just ties in with my thoughts about how so many people seem to comb through the laws on guns looking for an excuse to use their gun rather than a reason to use it. Just like the argument about if you find someone in your kitchen at 1:00AM you should shoot them before checking to see who they are. It seems that once some people strap a gun to their side their whole attitude about themselves and life changes. Remember that a gun is just one more tool in your self-defense arsenal and not the most important, it is not a magic talisman.
 

RJ_Whitlock

M&P 9mm
This discussion just ties in with my thoughts about how so many people seem to comb through the laws on guns looking for an excuse to use their gun rather than a reason to use it. Just like the argument about if you find someone in your kitchen at 1:00AM you should shoot them before checking to see who they are. It seems that once some people strap a gun to their side their whole attitude about themselves and life changes. Remember that a gun is just one more tool in your self-defense arsenal and not the most important, it is not a magic talisman.

I couldn't agree more! IMO, the most important tool in your self-defense arsenal is your brain and how you use it.
 

S&W645

NRA Life Member
Exactly! Where the did help your fellow man mentality go?
It went away when the sue you and win mentality came in for the criminals/criminal's relatives. Not saying I won't help but you do need to pick your situations where you do.
 

B2Tall

Stirrer of the Pot
Treo, you have clearly become the sheepdog who is defending us all against this evil sheepdog myth. :biggrin:
 

Iam2Taz

New member
There are a hundred reasons to be a sheepdog and a hundred why someone shouldn't. Many of them have been shared here. I don't pretend to be a sheepdog, but I could be one given the right circumstance. I think everyone in this forum has that potential given the right situation. (Such as a bunch of children being killed.) But that is not a "sheepdog" as much as it is just doing what is right and has to be done at the time.

I don't want the title. I have a cell phone. I will help if I can, but I will not overtly put myself in danger unless there is no other way. When my brain tells me there is no other way, then I'll be 100% committed.

The mentality for some folks to wanna be the "watchdog" for everyone is a little absurd. It is amusing, many times, to read what they would have done in a given situation. If we ever stop having those reads it will take all the fun out of everything! As those folks get older and wiser, perhaps they will have this same discussion with their "sheepdog" friends.
 

walt629

New member
I have to agree . A large part of the problem is people not willing to help each other , it doesn't have anything to do with playing Rambo. Could you look at yourself in the mirror or explain to your children why it was ok to let someone be attacked or killed when you could have stopped it?

Take this with a grain of salt, but if I am having that discussion with my children, at least I didn't end up with 2 in the chest from the BG's gun.

I know what you're saying but my responsibility to "help my fellow man" ends where I have to put my life in the way of the BG's bullets. I'm not a LEO and I don't wear kevlar. Helping a stranger went out the window when the lawyers got involved. The possibility of loosing everything you own to the BG's family is a very high probability in the real world of our [email protected] up judicial system.

And before you ask, I carry to protect me and my loved ones. Not Waffel House's profits. I still believ that if the GB's gun swings my way, it's time to get dirty. And by the way, at the point when the BG comes at me and tells me to get on the ground (look at the pictures in the OP) that's when all hell will break loose.

Let me interject something here. Has anyone stopped to think about the possibility that there may be a back up BG in the House just waiting for the Sheepdog to jump out of its collar?

Before I decide to jump in I will consider more than how it will look in the morning news paper.
 

walt629

New member
There are a hundred reasons to be a sheepdog and a hundred why someone shouldn't. Many of them have been shared here. I don't pretend to be a sheepdog, but I could be one given the right circumstance. I think everyone in this forum has that potential given the right situation. (Such as a bunch of children being killed.) But that is not a "sheepdog" as much as it is just doing what is right and has to be done at the time.

I don't want the title. I have a cell phone. I will help if I can, but I will not overtly put myself in danger unless there is no other way. When my brain tells me there is no other way, then I'll be 100% committed.

The mentality for some folks to wanna be the "watchdog" for everyone is a little absurd. It is amusing, many times, to read what they would have done in a given situation. If we ever stop having those reads it will take all the fun out of everything! As those folks get older and wiser, perhaps they will have this same discussion with their "sheepdog" friends.

Now THIS I can agree with! Well said!
 

mtallit

New member
Boy, I guess there are elitists on both sides of gun politics. I can appreciate a few "deep thoughts" here but Treo is taking things too far here about the intellectual uses of a simple term... Really!?! To other peoples' posts, I guess anyone who didn't serve is a second class citizen? I appreciate your service, but don't dismiss me because I didn't grow up during a draft and had other alternatives that I sought other than getting my college education paid for by others. I probably have as much training as most those who served during peacetime. Again, please don't confuse my comments here as not being grateful to those who honorably served our country... I am.
 

bikridr

New member
Easily. All three of my children and my wife own handguns. In the case of the kids, many. And they have known how to load and shoot them since they were in the single digits. Two currently have CCWs and one OC's and is about to take a CCW class with my wife. They understand fully the need to protect themselves and have been trained to do so from a young age. Why should any of them die in order to save sheeple that are too stupid or cowardly to defend themselves? I may think differently if I see a brother or sister trying to defend themselves against a disparity of force. But to enter an area with an active shooter when the only defensive strategy of the "prey" is to hide and hope for the best? Sorry, I'm not stupid. I would rather face my wife and kids and explain why I did not enter than not be there to explain to them why I made their mother a widow and left them fatherless. If you care that little for your own family, I can't help you. A person who chooses strangers over his own family is no hero to me. He is sick.



I do not claim to be a hero , I have known a few.I am not sick and I do not choose anyone over my family.I guess you can hide in your corner while I STAND IN MINE!
 

Grognard Gunny

New member
I was a "paid" sheepdog for twenty years of my life. As such, I was guardian of our society and it's members and was obligated to sacrifice my life, if necessary, in the course of my "required duties". Not even given the option to pick and choose which of the sheep was worth "saving"! (LOL!)

I didn't do it just to have a job, I did it because I figured I owed my Country at least something for having had the opportunity to be part/citizen of the greatest Country on the planet. (As far as freedom and opportunity and standard of living goes.)

Well, those days are gone, as has my "White Knight" syndrome. Now I simply take care of me and mine and strive mightily to keep others from sponging off me, or robbing me or doing violence because it is the "kool/gangsta" thing to do.

You know what bothers me most about the whole sorry situation? I am somewhat disgusted that I feel obligated to carry to feel resonably safe in my own Country.... minding my own business. A sad commentary on our "Great Society". Oh well..... such is life.

To all you "run to the aid of my fellow humans" types...... (Run to the sound of the gunfire? Just askin' for it, IMHO! LOL!) Anyway, back to the point of the aside: Did you ever stop to think that if you come running to the sound of a prolonged gun fight, the would be victim JUST might perceive you as another BG coming into the firefight?

You look like you are trying to flank me, with a weapon, rest assured you had best be wearing a halo and wings to cease being considered another member of the "threat" group..... Just sayin'. (People get a little crazy and don't think too well under stress of survival. Think about it.)

Considering Norway and reports of "home invaders" wearing police uniforms these days, it gets to the point of "Just who CAN you trust?"

Me and mine! All others are BG designees until proven otherwise. (It's how "innocents" get killed/harmed in warfare.) So..... word to the wise.

GG
 

wjh2657

New member
Far more important to my health and safety than the caliber of my gun is the fit of my shoes. My best hope for survival is to be able to extricate myself from the scene. By the way, this woosie coward is a retired Marine and a 6 year combat vet. This isn't VietNam and I don't have a Marine Rifle Squad to back me up. Bug out beats bang. The gun is just for those times that I can't run.
 

Grognard Gunny

New member
Amen brother!

Confucious say: "Man who have been in combat, most time not willing to stage a return enguagement."

Then again, some people simply have NO common sence.

GG
 

Treo

Bullet Proof
I guess anyone who didn't serve is a second class citizen? I appreciate your service, but don't dismiss me because I didn't grow up during a draft and had other alternatives that I sought other than getting my college education paid for by others.

I'd say my colledge eduacation was paid for. I resent you making military service out to be some kind of welfare program
 

Punch

New member
Take this with a grain of salt, but if I am having that discussion with my children, at least I didn't end up with 2 in the chest from the BG's gun.



Let me interject something here. Has anyone stopped to think about the possibility that there may be a back up BG in the House just waiting for the Sheepdog to jump out of its collar?

With the increase in gang related violence in my area, the "lone gunman" is becoming increasingly rare. You would almost have to consider the above possibility.
 

Punch

New member
Boy, I guess there are elitists on both sides of gun politics. I can appreciate a few "deep thoughts" here but Treo is taking things too far here about the intellectual uses of a simple term... Really!?! To other peoples' posts, I guess anyone who didn't serve is a second class citizen? I appreciate your service, but don't dismiss me because I didn't grow up during a draft and had other alternatives that I sought other than getting my college education paid for by others. I probably have as much training as most those who served during peacetime. Again, please don't confuse my comments here as not being grateful to those who honorably served our country... I am.

I could not agree more. Not to mention that I spent the last 30 years generating electricity which has probably saved more lives and raised the standard of living for my fellow countrymen at least as much, and probably more, and any military service would have done in the last 30 years. If we pulled all of our soldiers out of Afghanistan and Iraq, the only thing people would notice is a decrease in the rate of racking up the national debt and fewer flag draped coffins coming back to the US. If we shut down all of the power plants for two weeks, the death toll in this country would well exceed that of 9/11. I don't even need to discuss policemen, firemen, garbageman, doctors, nurses, and a whole ton of others who serve this country. There are a lot of people who serve this country every day, many without fancy uniforms and nice little ribbons to decorate them. And we do it gladly.
 

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