Bikenut, you did provide an example where it could hapen, yes... I will give you that much... yet you fail to understand how that example works.... It is DARK... and you do not KNOW if the person has a gun aimed at you or not, you just dont know.... so, you ARE actually in a THREATENING SITUATION in your example......
So, your example is not one where, like my argument states, there is NO THREAT PRESENT, so you do NOT have the right to defend yourself or kill someone for simply being on your property....
YOUR EXAMPLE has other aspects to it that change the situation (darkness)......
Ummm... nope... your reading too much into the situation by saying I wouldn't "know" if a kid stealing a bale of hay from my barn has a gun. Hell.. I wouldn't know if he DIDN'T have a gun either... yet the Texas law doesn't say anything at all about me being "threatened". That law pertains only to "property". Kindly go back and read it again and stop reaching for straws.
Just like I ridicule you and firefighter by showing the extremes in your line of thinking, hence butchering 2 year olds is ok by you two.....
Enough of your accusations about me being Ok with horrific acts to children! I have never said, hinted, or implied, such a thing. The fact that you would resort to such a libelous tactic speaks volumes.
YOU are ADDING something, (just like I do/have) with the "nighttime" part of your example....
So you are trying to justify and excuse accusing me of being Ok with horrendous acts against children by saying doing so is just "adding something" as a part of your argument? Perhaps it would be wise for you to look up the definition of "libel".
The middle ground is where the truth lies..... If you cannot prove that you FEARED for your life you have no grounds for shooting someone..... You standing upon "property rights" so firmly you cannot fathom that there are times your "property rights" just arent as strong as you claim them to be is exactly WHY I stress that my right to be armed trumps your "rules" (which you claim to be rights) so strongly.....
But the Texas law shows that, at least in Texas at night, private property rights are far more powerful than you are willing to admit. And all that would be necessary would be to "prove" the person on private property was guilty of one or more of the crimes enumerated in that law. Hint... that law only pertains to property and does not cover threatening/attacking a person.
90% of my posts on this subject have been a "play" on words..... just to get a response from you about it.....
I see... so all your talk about harming kids is just to " play on words" in an effort to smear me? You had to resort to such dastardly measures just to "play"? Do you have any idea what that admission does to your credibility?
Like I said just a minute ago... the truth/reality is somewhere in between .. Right along the line of property rights/personal rights and common sense.... You and firefighter do NOT have the right to shoot me if I dont pose a threat to you....
Hmmm... but if you are not a threat to me but are stealing a bale of hay out of my barn at night in Texas...
Yet, at the same time, I DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT to "be" on your property... so, I have a choice to make... leave at once, or stay and argue.....
You left out one other and extremely important choice... the most important choice... stay off my property in the first place because you do not have permission to be there nor do you have a right to be there. Now why would you not consider that choice FIRST? Bear in mind I'm talking about any and all of my property from my home to my business that is open to the public.
IF I leave at once, you cannot morally or legally shoot me (again, in my example, I have done nothing to make you fear for your life, like appear in the darkness or act aggressively) BUT if I stay and argue, I have NOW shown you that I am a danger to you and if I make any sudden movements (or it is too dark to see, like in your example) you would THEN have the right to "self defense" and even then, some of that even depends on where you live......
Talk about having things screwed up.... Axe... neither appearing in the darkness nor an argument between a property owner and a trespasser in and of themselves constitutes a "threat" that justifies a lethal force response. But if you have cites and/or links that proves it does then I'd like to see them.
And again you try to twist things. That Texas law I gave as an example didn't say anything about not being able to see... it said "night time"... and sometimes there is light from yard lights/full moon with a clear sky that allow a person to see... but it is still "night time".
In OHIO, I am not even "allowed", according to the "law" to do anything other than yell at you and call the cops if I catch you stealing my stuff/property..... yet in the great state of Texas, I could blow you away! and to tell you the truth, that is EXACTLY what I would do if I lived in Texas and caught someone stealing anything on my property....