As a matter of respect?

My "friends" know & don't mind if I carry in their homes.

However, I do have some friendly business & church "acquaintances" who aren't very comfortable with the thought of a firearm being in their home. I respect their "RIGHT" and disarm on the rare occassion I visit.

To me, it's no different that a posted business. I try NOT to go. But, when I "have to", I honor their right of refusal.
 
I am still curious if BC1 would prohibit firearms and post a sign at a business he was proprietor of.
Never posted signs. I don't advertise my position. No employee was ever allowed to bring a firearm into the office. This was in the agreement that everyone must sign to be employed. Since the office has no public contact/access the only people there were employees. If the business was open to the public I still would not put up a sign as no criminal will obey it. Either way I'm not accepting liability for employees actions with a firearm. I am also not liable for the safety or protection of the employees against unlawful acts by others. If employees don't like the rules they're free to work elsewhere.
 
To anyone who feels as strongly as you do about it, I suggest a sign on your front door. Something to the effect of, "This is a gun-free zone." That alerts visitors to your home of your objections to anyone carrying on your property, and puts the onus on them whether or not to lock it up, leave, or go ahead and violate your house rules.
Unneccesary. No strangers enter my home, ever. I'm very selective about who gains access. I recommend one never put up sign. Never advertise anything pursuant your home safety plan or protection capabilities. Your obligation as a concelaed carrier may be always maintain control of your weapon but I'm not trusting my life to that promise. In my home I will always maintain control and keep the benefit of better protection than my guests... the very essence of a castle doctrine.
 
"Friends" would already know, or they arent really a friend, just an acquaintance.....


My "right" to self-defense (and to carry the tools I deem useful for that purpose) trumps ANY other right anyone else tries to "put" or "apply" to me..., END of discussion.....
 
Exactly. Like I said, c'est la vie. I will respect and abide by their decision, but it is their decision that stressed the relationship, not my decision to operate under the same set of rules for myself that I have operated under for more than 30 years. I won't allow my own government to disarm me without at least passive resistence. Why on Earth would I allow a so-called friend to?

Blues

My "right" to self-defense (and to carry the tools I deem useful for that purpose) trumps ANY other right anyone else tries to "put" or "apply" to me..., END of discussion.....

With all respect, because your second amendment rights end at your friend's property line. That's the point where his rights supercede ours. Remember that the second amendment does not protect any right to carry a firearm. This was decided in a ninth-district federal court in September 2011. The SCOTUS has not yet made a ruling on this but in the Heller decision indicated that "bear arms" does not mean "carry arms."

You may choose to carry against the wishes of the property owner but one must remember that his rights have the weight of law in most states.
 
With all respect, because your second amendment rights end at your friend's property line. That's the point where his rights supercede ours. Remember that the second amendment does not protect any right to carry a firearm. This was decided in a ninth-district federal court in September 2011. The SCOTUS has not yet made a ruling on this but in the Heller decision indicated that "bear arms" does not mean "carry arms."

You may choose to carry against the wishes of the property owner but one must remember that his rights have the weight of law in most states.
Absolute bullcrap, and only YOUR opinion... A humans "right" to self defense (yes, that includes the tools for it too) does NOT EVER END when they cross some others "property line"

"does not protect any right to carry a firearm" another absolutely ignorant statement (Especially if some so-called court says it, and if you actually believe it, what the hell are you doing here in the first place if not to troll)... what else could the part about "bear" in "keep and bear arms" mean?????
 
2A rights only extend to private property if the owner allows it. It's just that simple. If you disagree with a PP owner then you should show your displeasure by avoiding setting foot on their property, not by carrying anyways in defiance of their known wishes and rights. Those who crusade for their own rights had better be prepared to respect the rights of others.
 
Never posted signs. I don't advertise my position. No employee was ever allowed to bring a firearm into the office. This was in the agreement that everyone must sign to be employed. Since the office has no public contact/access the only people there were employees. If the business was open to the public I still would not put up a sign as no criminal will obey it. Either way I'm not accepting liability for employees actions with a firearm. I am also not liable for the safety or protection of the employees against unlawful acts by others. If employees don't like the rules they're free to work elsewhere.

So, you, as the employer, would fire this guy as well?
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/fire...n-pharmacist-filled-robbers/story?id=13705438
 
Property rights

I won't comment on the bear vs carry as the laws are a little sycophantic.

But a property owner has the absolute right to impose whatever rules he wants.
In my house there is no smoking. I have the right to ask a person to leave if they insist on smoking. A person's property rights are just as valid as your right to carry.

If you want people to respect your right to carry, you cannot deny them their rights.
 
2A right only extend to private property if the owner allows it. It's just that simple. If you disagree with a PP owner then you should show your displeasure by avoiding setting foot on their property, not by carrying anyways in defiance of their known wishes and rights. Those who crusade for their own rights had better be prepared to respect the rights of others.

Please, show us all WHERE in the constitution or BOR that "property rights" trump the 2nd amendment....
 
Absolute bullcrap, and only YOUR opinion... A humans "right" to self defense (yes, that includes the tools for it too) does NOT EVER END when they cross some others "property line"

"does not protect any right to carry a firearm" another absolutely ignorant statement (Especially if some so-called court says it, and if you actually believe it, what the hell are you doing here in the first place if not to troll)... what else could the part about "bear" in "keep and bear arms" mean?????
You exhibit some dangerous traits in a firearm owner:
- Emotional response to a fact or opinion, including anger and name calling.
- The belief that one isn't required to leave a premise when told to do so.
- The attitude that your opinion supercedes the law.

If someone enters my home armed I will ask them to disarm or leave. If they don't the police will be called and they'll be physically escorted out and charged with trespass. If they react with any threat of violence they'll be dealt with accordingly. Now if you proceed through life with the attitude you may do what you please on my property you may eventually be arrested or worse. THIS IS THE BASIS OF CASTLE DOCTRINE.

Let's get you up to speed on this topic. Read the sources below before responding so we know what we're writing about, OK? ALL law is open to interpretation, which is found in case-law. None of us may agree with the position but unfortunately this is currently the law of the land and has been defined this way as far back as 1897. We expect this federal ruling to be appealed to the SCOTUS. This will require the high court to undertake the "carry" issue.

Here's the facts. Now take it up with an attorney and report your findings. Don't insult me over facts you don't like.

--KACHALSKY V. COUNTY OF WESTCHESTER--

Federal Court Decision determines that denial of a license to carry a handgun is not a violation of the second amendment - Sept. 2011 - Link Removed. The written federal court ruling specifically makes the following statements.

As so many courts considering statutory challenges post-Heller have observed, the Heller Court, while not setting the outer bounds of the Second Amendment, explicitly stated that “[l]ike most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited.” Id. at 626. Crucially, the Court observed, “From Blackstone through the 19th-century cases, commentators and courts routinely explained that the right was not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.”

The language of Heller makes clear that the Court recognized “not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose,” 554 U.S. at 626, but rather a much narrower right—namely the “right of law-abiding, responsible citizens to use arms in defense of hearth and home,” id. at 635.

Heller’s limiting language makes clear that the Supreme Court did not disturb its prior ruling in Robertson v. Baldwin, 165 U.S. 275 (1897), where it “recognized that the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms is not infringed by laws prohibiting the carrying of concealed weapons.” Dorr, 741 F. Supp. 2d at 1005 (citing Robertson, 165 U.S. at 281–82).23 The Dorr court observed that the plaintiffs in that case failed to “direct[] the court’s attention to any contrary authority recognizing a right to carry a concealed weapon under the Second Amendment and the court’s own research efforts . . . revealed none.” Accordingly, it concluded, “a right to carry a concealed weapon under the Second Amendment has not been recognized to date.” Id.; see also People v. Flores, 86 Cal. Rptr. 3d 804, 808 (Ct. App. 2008) (citing Robertson and Heller in holding that “[g]iven this implicit approval [in Heller] of concealed firearm prohibitions, we cannot read Heller to have altered the courts’ longstanding understanding that such prohibitions are constitutional”); Mack v. United States, 6 A.3d 1224, 1236 (D.C. 2010) (citing Robertson and Heller and noting “it simply is not obvious that the Second Amendment secures a right to carry a concealed weapon”).

--DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA V. HELLER--

The Supreme Court determined in Heller that the right was an indivdual one but stated "nothing in our opinion should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms."

Heller, while striking down a law that prohibited the possession of handguns in the home, recognized that the right to keep and bear arms is not “a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.”

--

Mentioned this thread to our attorney a little while ago. He provided the citations. But I forgot, you regularly challenge some very smart attorneys on this forum. Education is a wonderful thing... it will set you free!
 
I won't comment on the bear vs carry as the laws are a little sycophantic.

But a property owner has the absolute right to impose whatever rules he wants.
In my house there is no smoking. I have the right to ask a person to leave if they insist on smoking. A person's property rights are just as valid as your right to carry.

If you want people to respect your right to carry, you cannot deny them their rights.
Never said you didnt have the right to ask them to leave..... BUT... if you invite them ONTO your property, ALL of their rights come with them.... Me carrying an inanimate object in ABSOLUTELY NO WAY infringes on ANY of your rights whatsoever.... it does NOT matter where I am standing/sitting, ALL of my rights are still mine...... the ONLY time you have ANY say in the matter is IF what I am doing infringes on your rights (and in this discussions example, it DOES NOT IN ANY WAY DO SO, period...)
 
The situation you note would not happen as there is no access by the public. The facility is secured. No one is in the building at 4:30 AM either. There are no drugs or money to steal, just a non-descript hardened office door with card-key access. Hardly a good target.

I think the risk level at a pharmacy is higher than a general office. Lot's of tweekers that want drugs and money. If I owned a pharamcy I absolutely would allow the pharmacist to carry, especially at night.
 
BC1, you need to go back and actually read my posts before you go accusing me of name calling.... I did no such thing. Saying someone's opinion is stupid does NOT constitute calling them a name...


As far as my "opinion" superseding the so-called law you are spouting... You need to come to the true, 100% FACT that ANY law, whatsoever,that has ANYTHING to do with firearms is UN-Constitutional, and is therefore, UNLAWFUL on its face, period.... People like you who advocate the "following" or upholding of such blatantly false laws are deluding themselves and hurting our cause.....
 
Just because some idiot usurpers in black robes state something is constitutional, it does not make it correct....
 
Boy, you can say that again!

Wow, upholding my OATH to defend the constitution from all enemies is a dangerous trait..... Well, Praise God that there are those like me around so you can still spout off your ignorant views without being thrown in jail.....

Get a clue about our "Rights" before you go trying to define them people......
 
Quite an elitist attitiude
Yeah, isn't America great? No employee ever complained and many had CCW permits. I guess they liked the salary too much (some software consultants made $125-$150 per hour). Perhaps they carried in their briefcase... I don't know and never asked.

There is more at stake than my opinion. Some employees are afraid of guns and I won't have them be alarmed in the workplace. Period. I put it to a vote and the employees overwhelmingly held for "no guns." I'm not willing to lose a productive employee who is afraid of guns just to let the minority of employees carry. It's bad for business and it's bad for my wallet.
 
Just because some idiot usurpers in black robes state something is constitutional, it does not make it correct....
No it doesn't. But it does make it the law. You may not agree but you'll need a SCOTUS decision to win the argument.

BC1, you need to go back and actually read my posts before you go accusing me of name calling.... I did no such thing.

As far as my "opinion" superseding the so-called law you are spouting... You need to come to the true, 100% FACT that ANY law, whatsoever,that has ANYTHING to do with firearms is UN-Constitutional.

You called me a troll for poviding facts found in federal court decisions.

The cases I presented aren't my opinion. Follow the link and read the actual court decisions from which the info was derived.
 

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