Allow guns in school?

I think schools should have a gun locker in the office!!! The locker will have a taser gun, pepper spray & a shotgun!!! There is usually more than 1 person in the office, so no one can just go in & take the gun without reason!!!
 
So you were required to take that training before you could carry? I find it interesting that some people who cringe at conditions being attached to the exercising of their own 2nd amendment rights, don't seem to have any problem attaching conditions to the same rights when exercised by others. I'm used to seeing stuff like that from people like Bloomberg, the Hollywood elite and powerful liberals, but not from pro-2nd amendment advocates. It's an eye opener to say the least.

I'm not sure I understand exactly what your trying to say, but yes in my state I did have to have training before getting a carry permit, sadly some states don't. I am definatly pro 2nd, but it would be stupid to give a teacher, male or female a handgun with no training. as I said in a previous post its not a perfect solution, but nether is trying to put more gun laws on the books, which we know will do little or nothing to curb gun crime
 
I think schools should have a gun locker in the office!!! The locker will have a taser gun, pepper spray & a shotgun!!! There is usually more than 1 person in the office, so no one can just go in & take the gun without reason!!!

Only if the shotgun is loaded with slugs... too many kids running around screaming to be using 00. Better yet, I thnk that pic of the guard in Israel with the M1 Carbine was appropriate. Or, how about a Sub 2000 or Hi-Point Carbine? The 9mm, .40 or .45 won't go through the IIA vests, but the .30 Carbine will! Using 5.56x45 may be too much for indoors will so many other people around.
 
I'm not sure I understand exactly what your trying to say, but yes in my state I did have to have training before getting a carry permit, sadly some states don't. I am definatly pro 2nd, but it would be stupid to give a teacher, male or female a handgun with no training. as I said in a previous post its not a perfect solution, but nether is trying to put more gun laws on the books, which we know will do little or nothing to curb gun crime
You said teachers shouldn't be allowed to carry until they've been trained in weapon retention. Were you required to have that training before you were allowed to carry? I've never heard of any state requiring it. I made those comments because you were trying to put different requirements on different people in order to exercise the same right, just as the anti-gunners do. Teachers wouldn't be cops or security guards, nor would we be asking them to act like they were. Unlike cops and security guards, teachers would be carrying their firearms concealed. Also unlike cops and security guards, teachers would not be faced with the same threat of perpetrators trying pull their gun from their holsters and thus presenting an armed threat. Any perpetrator wouldn't know where the holster was, or even if one existed. And a teacher's gun wouldn't even enter into the equation unless the perpetrator was already armed in the first place. That's a completely different world from cops and security guards, and it does not warrant the same training.
 
I'm not sure I understand exactly what your trying to say, but yes in my state I did have to have training before getting a carry permit, sadly some states don't.

[Sarcasm]Yeah, the blood runs in the streets here in Washington because we don't have training required for a CPL.[/Sarcasm] So, you can provide us examples of problems that exist in states like Washington that don't require training? We'll wait. Why regulate something that isn't broken?
 
Ohio requires training, but it's on compliance with the laws and such. It's not training on the tactical use of firearms. There's no firearms training at all, beyond how not to shoot yourself or the guy standing next to you at the range. Same with my Utah class. Even less in fact. There were no firearms at all in that class.
 
Ann Coulter said it very well on Wednesday

We know how to stop school shootings
Posted By Ann Coulter On 9:26 PM 12/19/2012 @ 9:26 PM In Ann Coulter,Opinion | No Comments

In the wake of a monstrous crime like a madman’s mass murder of defenseless women and children at the Newtown, Conn., elementary school, the nation’s attention is riveted on what could have been done to prevent such a massacre.

Luckily, some years ago, two famed economists, William Landes at the University of Chicago and John Lott at Yale, conducted a massive study of multiple-victim public shootings in the United States between 1977 and 1995 to see how various legal changes affected their frequency and death toll.

Landes and Lott examined many of the very policies being proposed right now in response to the Connecticut massacre: waiting periods and background checks for guns, the death penalty and increased penalties for committing a crime with a gun.

None of these policies had any effect on the frequency of, or carnage from, multiple-victim shootings. (I note that they did not look at reforming our lax mental health laws, presumably because the ACLU is working to keep dangerous nuts on the street in all 50 states.)

Only one public policy has ever been shown to reduce the death rate from such crimes: concealed-carry laws.

Their study controlled for age, sex, race, unemployment, retirement, poverty rates, state population, murder arrest rates, violent crime rates, and on and on.

The effect of concealed-carry laws in deterring mass public shootings was even greater than the impact of such laws on the murder rate generally.

Someone planning to commit a single murder in a concealed-carry state only has to weigh the odds of one person being armed. But a criminal planning to commit murder in a public place has to worry that anyone in the entire area might have a gun.

You will notice that most multiple-victim shootings occur in “gun-free zones” — even within states that have concealed-carry laws: public schools, churches, Sikh temples, post offices, the movie theater where James Holmes committed mass murder, and the Portland, Ore., mall where a nut gunned down shoppers a few weeks ago.

Guns were banned in all these places. Mass killers may be crazy, but they’re not stupid.

If the deterrent effect of concealed-carry laws seems surprising to you, that’s because the media hide stories of armed citizens stopping mass shooters. At the Portland shooting, for example, no explanation was given for the amazing fact that the assailant managed to kill only two people in the mall during the busy Christmas season.

It turns out, concealed-carry-holder Nick Meli hadn’t noticed that the mall was a gun-free zone. He pointed his (otherwise legal) gun at the shooter as he paused to reload, and the next shot was the attempted mass murderer killing himself. (Meli aimed, but didn’t shoot, because there were bystanders behind the shooter.)

In a nonsense “study” going around the Internet right now, Mother Jones magazine claims to have produced its own study of all public shootings in the last 30 years and concludes: “In not a single case was the killing stopped by a civilian using a gun.”

This will come as a shock to people who know something about the subject.

The magazine reaches its conclusion by simply excluding all cases where an armed civilian stopped the shooter: They looked only at public shootings where four or more people were killed, i.e., the ones where the shooter wasn’t stopped.

If we care about reducing the number of people killed in mass shootings, shouldn’t we pay particular attention to the cases where the aspiring mass murderer was prevented from getting off more than a couple rounds?

It would be like testing the effectiveness of weed killers, but refusing to consider any cases where the weeds died.

In addition to the Portland mall case, here are a few more examples excluded by the Mother Jones methodology:

– Mayan Palace Theater, San Antonio, Texas, this week: Jesus Manuel Garcia shoots at a movie theater, a police car and bystanders from the nearby China Garden restaurant; as he enters the movie theater, guns blazing, an armed off-duty cop shoots Garcia four times, stopping the attack. Total dead: Zero.

– Winnemucca, Nev., 2008: Ernesto Villagomez opens fire in a crowded restaurant; concealed-carry permit-holder shoots him dead. Total dead: Two. (I’m excluding the shooters’ deaths in these examples.)

– Appalachian School of Law, 2002: Crazed immigrant shoots the dean and a professor, then begins shooting students; as he goes for more ammunition, two armed students point their guns at him, allowing a third to tackle him. Total dead: Three.

– Santee, Calif., 2001: Student begins shooting his classmates — as well as the “trained campus supervisor”; an off-duty cop who happened to be bringing his daughter to school that day points his gun at the shooter, holding him until more police arrive. Total dead: Two.

– Pearl High School, Mississippi, 1997: After shooting several people at his high school, student heads for the junior high school; assistant principal Joel Myrick retrieves a .45 pistol from his car and points it at the gunman’s head, ending the murder spree. Total dead: Two.

– Edinboro, Pa., 1998: A student shoots up a junior high school dance being held at a restaurant; restaurant owner pulls out his shotgun and stops the gunman. Total dead: One.

By contrast, the shootings in gun-free zones invariably result in far higher casualty figures — Sikh temple, Oak Creek, Wis. (six dead); Virginia Tech, Blacksburg, Va. (32 dead); Columbine High School, Columbine, Colo. (12 dead); Amish school, Lancaster County, Pa. (five little girls killed); public school, Craighead County, Ark. (five killed, including four little girls).

All these took place in gun-free zones, resulting in lots of people getting killed — and thereby warranting inclusion in the Mother Jones study.

If what we care about is saving the lives of innocent human beings by reducing the number of mass public shootings and the deaths they cause, only one policy has ever been shown to work: concealed-carry laws. On the other hand, if what we care about is self-indulgent grandstanding, and to hell with dozens of innocent children being murdered in cold blood, try the other policies.

Ann Coulter is an author and political commentator.
 
I'm not sure I understand exactly what your trying to say, but yes in my state I did have to have training before getting a carry permit, sadly some states don't. I am definatly pro 2nd, but it would be stupid to give a teacher, male or female a handgun with no training. as I said in a previous post its not a perfect solution, but nether is trying to put more gun laws on the books, which we know will do little or nothing to curb gun crime

There's no need to hire more police. I'd be willing to bet that 99% of schools in this country have teachers/staff who are gun enthusiasts and already own firearms and are familiar with their use. These people should be allowed to carry on school property and I'm sure they'd gladly do it. As long as these folks can pass a firearm safety course then they should come to work packing. School districts should also designate and handfull of teachers/staff at each school as "paid carriers" (as opposed to volunteers) and give them an extra $100 a month to cover the costs of going to the range on a regular basis. A small price to pay.....
 
Ohio requires training, but it's on compliance with the laws and such. It's not training on the tactical use of firearms. There's no firearms training at all, beyond how not to shoot yourself or the guy standing next to you at the range. Same with my Utah class. Even less in fact. There were no firearms at all in that class.
Oregon's training is mostly designed to scare off the "casual" carriers. It can pretty well be summed up in one sentence: "If you have to shoot someone, even if there's no doubt it's a righteous shoot, prepare to have life, as you know it, end."

It did have a lot of useful info on the legal end of things, though, and I don't begrudge the 8 hours at all.
 
They should also be given protection from civil prosecution in a good shoot.

In Indiana, we are provided that protection....

IC 35-41-3-2
Use of force to protect person or property
Sec. 2. (a) In enacting this section, the general assembly finds and declares that it is the policy of this state to recognize the unique character of a citizen's home and to ensure that a citizen feels secure in his or her own home against unlawful intrusion by another individual or a public servant. By reaffirming the long standing right of a citizen to protect his or her home against unlawful intrusion, however, the general assembly does not intend to diminish in any way the other robust self defense rights that citizens of this state have always enjoyed. Accordingly, the general assembly also finds and declares that it is the policy of this state that people have a right to defend themselves and third parties from physical harm and crime. The purpose of this section is to provide the citizens of this state with a lawful means of carrying out this policy.
(b) As used in this section, "public servant" means a person described in IC 35-41-1-17, IC 35-31.5-2-129, or IC 35-31.5-2-185.
(c) A person is justified in using reasonable force against any other person to protect the person or a third person from what the person reasonably believes to be the imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person:
(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person or the commission of a forcible felony. No person in this state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting the person or a third person by reasonable means necessary.

(d) A person:
(1) is justified in using reasonable force, including deadly force, against any other person; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent or terminate the other person's unlawful entry of or attack on the person's dwelling, curtilage, or occupied motor vehicle.
(e) With respect to property other than a dwelling, curtilage, or an occupied motor vehicle, a person is justified in using reasonable force against any other person if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to immediately prevent or terminate the other person's trespass on or criminal interference with property lawfully
in the person's possession, lawfully in possession of a member of the person's immediate family, or belonging to a person whose property the person has authority to protect. However, a person:
(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
only if that force is justified under subsection (c).
 
Yes we should allow guns in schools, concealed carrying staff members and/or armed guards. The only thing that will stop a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun. Most importantly switch the 'no guns allowed' signs to 'be extra safe with your guns around kids'
 
The difference in the equation is what I could find worrisome. Due to their mandatory service requirements, Israelis are very familiar with all aspects of firearms. That includes the mental aspects of having to defend yourself and others. I am in agreement with arming some teachers, ones that are VERY familiar and comfortable with firearms, and with the mindset to be able to actually have to use one. And I don't mean just a little weekend course of some kind. Shooting in defense is not something most minds are programed to do if you aren't somewhat comfortable in that situation. Freezing, hesitating and letting yourself question taking the necessary action, getting it taken away from you, or just not being alert, could lead to some terrible consequences.
As I stated, I'm all for giving teachers the right and the means to protect themselves and our children....but just please be careful with who it is that would be given this responsibility.

In my school years, the 60s and early 70s, I cannot think of a single one of my teachers that I wouldn't have trusted completely with their finger on the trigger of a nuke. But, these are different times, unfortunately.
 
So you were required to take that training before you could carry? I find it interesting that some people who cringe at conditions being attached to the exercising of their own 2nd amendment rights, don't seem to have any problem attaching conditions to the same rights when exercised by others. I'm used to seeing stuff like that from people like Bloomberg, the Hollywood elite and powerful liberals, but not from pro-2nd amendment advocates. It's an eye opener to say the least.
Don't get your undies all bunched up Rhino! I did expect more of you.
You, me and the rest of LTC crowd are only to carry primarily for 1) Self defense and defense of loved ones. Yes there are other extenuating circumstances.
A volunteer teacher or admin whose purpose is primarily the protection of a number of innocent children during an active shooter situation or being able to detect with certainty and stop a potential mass shooter is a bit different. Wouldn't you agree?
Now looking at it that way don't you think with such a tremendous responsibility that everyone involved, especially the volunteer would welcome some intense situational training. Do you think it is something that because you and others can carry without such training it shouldn't be expected of such a volunteer. If that is your attitude then I am sure with that outlook during your interview as a possible volunteer I am positive it would show and you would be rejected outright.
Think about it. Un-bunch your undies and aim first and then shoot. I mean think first then type! To take your assertion to the extreme one would have to say that just having your LTC makes you a great shot and a tactical genius.
Don't even try to argue this point because you are wrong. Rocketgeezer you are right! Not as if you(Rocketgeezer) said now that you have your LTC you want others getting applying for an LTC should have special training so they will be safer and therefore you will be safer. Apples and Oranges!
 
I'm not sure I understand exactly what your trying to say, but yes in my state I did have to have training before getting a carry permit, sadly some states don't.

I'm sitting right now about 20 minutes from your state line, and our respective states have a reciprocity agreement. There is no training requirement whatsoever here in Bama in order to get a permit. Does it "sadden" you that I can carry in your state too?

In another life long, long ago, I lived in WA State and got a permit with nothing more than a background check. No training required there either, and lots and lots of people carry in both WA and Bama, as well as the few states that allow constitutional carry (no permit, no training, no state-level government between the individual and his/her 2nd Amendment rights), yet crime is not inflated in these states over states with more restrictive training requirements, nor are accidental shootings or crimes of negligence/recklessness. Maybe most people in these states are getting their training the same way many/most of us did - from our parents, youth competition organizations, maybe even just from better-trained friends. And a lot of shooters like that probably augment their training on their own just like I did and several people I know in this area have done. Just because it's a wise thing to do doesn't make it the government's business to force on people.

I am definatly pro 2nd, but it would be stupid to give a teacher, male or female a handgun with no training.

I think it's much more stupid to give government more authority than the Constitution's authors and signers contemplated by writing that phrase, "...shall NOT be infringed" into the 2nd Amendment. Requirements that prevents one from exercising a right until they abide by them, whether they can afford those requirements or not, seems a rather obvious infringement to me.

We've thought seriously about moving to TN because land is pretty cheap in the southern part of the state, the country is gorgeous, no income tax, and it would be close enough that we could keep our same jobs in and near Huntsville, AL. One of the reasons we haven't made that move is because of the exorbitant expense of getting permitted up there. It costs each of us $15 bucks a year here. That's it. It's well over $250 up there counting the training course that neither of us needs. It's true that the $50 renewal every four years works out to a little cheaper than our $60 bucks every four years, but $500 or more just for both of us to get legal to begin with isn't real attractive.

Anyway, it kinda struck me weird to read that you think it's sad that some states don't require training. Unless you have some stats that suggest that causes more gun deaths and/or gun crime, all you're really sad about is that people in states like Alabama don't have more government in their lives. I'm here to tell you that that's one of the more important reasons I'm happy to be a Bama transplant!

Blues
 
I have no doubt that before long there will be people armed in schools. Either teachers or guards or both. If not we will lose more kids because you know there will be copycats of the Newtown shooting.

:triniti:
 
[Sarcasm]Yeah, the blood runs in the streets here in Washington because we don't have training required for a CPL.[/Sarcasm] So, you can provide us examples of problems that exist in states like Washington that don't require training? We'll wait. Why regulate something that isn't broken?

There are some states that do not requier any training or class instruction whatsoever, go to the Sherrif, pass a backround ck, pay your money and get your CCW permit...................that is BS in anyones book, being your so good with your computer looking up laws rules and regulations, you really should have known this, in my state we had to take 8hrs of classroom and firearms training to get our CCW certificate, and my wife and I have also take additional courses in home pertection and defence, I was not advocating that some need training and some don't, I have always said that any private citizen, non military, non police, who carrys a gun no matter who they are, needs to be trained, and this would go double for teachers, just because its your 2nd amendment right don't meen some should do it. I geuss in your veiw it was that kid in Newtown's 2nd ad right to carry guns, just because he was a american, and now we are seeing what that got us...........if someone dissagrees with this thats your choice.............
 

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