Allow guns in school?

[jg1967]

I agree allow guns in school. People forget what CCW holders have to go through in order to get a permit. Background checks and everything. How come criminals who dont have CCW's get to bring guns to schools and the rest of us cannot?

Because we make laws that focus on an object rather than the action with it. And we continue to do so.

 

[BluesStringer]

Now just a minuit, knowing what you do now as to the kids mental health, you would still advocate letting him have a firearm, just because of 2nd rights?

Lanza was 20 years old. If I recall correctly, he could have bought the rifle and shotgun legally at 18 (? - unless laws that I haven't needed to keep up with for 40 years have changed). He could not have bought the handguns however, but anyone willing to kill his own mother to steal them from her quite obviously wouldn't follow any law preventing him from having them, now would he? No one "let" the CT murderer "have a firearm" at all. He murdered and stole for them.

...........and as to arming teachers would you also advocate give a teacher a weapon that may have never even held a gun before and tell them here use this to defend the kids?

You are asking the wrong question. No one here wants to *give* a teacher or anyone else a firearm and then *tell* them what they are supposed to do with it. The question is, would you deny that same teacher their God-given right to make an adult choice to keep and bear in defense of self and others, just because they didn't pass some safety course that meets with your approval? How much of the eight hours of instruction you had to take to get your permit was spent at the range actually handling a loaded firearm? How many rounds did you fire in that course? Are you really saying that a state-certified, basic, beginner's safety course would make you feel comfortable with armed teachers, but receiving training from friends or a source of one's own choosing would be unacceptable to you? And do you really think that a teacher (or administrator/janitor/lunch-counter-worker/teacher's aid/whomever) who has "never even held a gun before" would be likely to make that choice if it was their choice to make? Chances are, just like all the new shooters that are busy buying out every gun store in America right now because of the fear of coming draconian gun control, any school employee that wanted to carry in school would want to be trained a helluva lot better than the state of TN (or any other state) requires just to get permitted. I mean, if we're going to discuss the pros and cons of arming school employees, can't we at least try to stick to some semblance of reality?

.............I am as pro 2nd as anyone

You could not prove that from your posts in this thread. Really.

...but some common sense is needed...

As in "common sense gun control for teachers only?"

...no every teacher should not have a gun...

Who here has even hinted that *every* teacher should have a gun? Again, let's stick to reality and quit giving answers to arguments that were never made.

...just as some LEOs should not, (as some I know could not hit the barn if they were in it)

If that's true, and if you really care about your community, including the kids in it, you should report those cops (plural? "some I know?") that aren't competent to carry a weapon to their Sheriff, Chief of Police, the Mayor, Letters to the Editor of your local newspaper, and get them the heck off the force before someone gets killed! That is an amazing statement you made there. Why, it's dang near unbelievable!

....but no way would I ever just openly condone giveing someone the job of teaching our children, and give them a gun to use for protecting them with no training whatsoever...

Stick to reality. No one wants to give anyone a gun, with or without training. We want children of this country to have the same chance of being protected by legal carriers in school as they enjoy out of school. That's it. We want people who are inclined to exercise their constitutional rights to be legally protected in so doing. Just like is true on the street, the overwhelming majority of school employees will choose not to exercise that right, but it's their choice to make, not mine, not yours and not government's.

...and just for the record I think the states that give permission for a carry permit with nothing more than simple backround ck is stupid...

Can you cite one single statistic, or even just an anecdotal real event that shows where the lack of an eight hour basic pistol class with maybe 10 or 20 rounds fired at a range is included, led to someone getting hurt, killed, an accidental discharge or something that you can hang your hat on in forming the above conclusion?

as far as a weapon to keep in your home thats a little differant, this opinion did not just come out of the air, years ago at our carry permit class one dude and a older lady hit about everything there but ther own target, the deputys tryed to help them, but in the end they did not get there certificates, just as maybe some teachers should not

Again, again, and again, stick to reality. If a school employee wants a permit to carry, then they will have to go through whatever processes are mandated in their jurisdiction. Maybe the "one dude" or the "older lady" in the above anecdote were teachers, and they didn't get their permit to carry, so presumably, assuming they were/are law-abiding citizens, don't carry in school or anywhere else. All we're talking about is allowing school employees the same right of self defense as every other American. We're not trying to "give" them guns, or to *mandate* that any school employee be armed. We're just saying that if they're ready, willing and capable, allow them to carry.

I have no idea why that's so hard to understand, or why, just because they're involved with working around kids, that they should be forced by their own government to be completely defenseless. And I really don't get why anyone who claims to support the 2nd Amendment as much "as anyone" would support their own government in denying them their rights. It's completely baffling, and...well...just for the record, stupid!

Blues

 

[K7lvo]

Actually, I have a minor in constitutional studies and am a thesis away from my masters. I also am a SCoTUS wonk, and follow the court decisions fairly closely...even the ones that have nothing to do the 2nd Amendment. My question is, do you understand that no amount of hand wringing about how the 2nd amendment doesn't say "_insert_gripe_here," you have regulations that restrict those rights... and that the Court has affirmed this multiple times over the last 200 years? Including in Heller? "Shall not be infringed" runs right up against "well regulated" in Court precedent.

What I'd like to know is, do you realize that any right can be infringed if that infringement is for public safety? The courts hold that your rights end right at point that they infringe upon someone Else's right to life. You have the right to free speech, but not to use it to incite to riot. You have the right to travel between the states, but not if you do so drunk, etc. If the legislation deems it a public hazard, and if it survives court scrutiny, the government can limit the right...including the 2nd amendment.

I don't care what weapon someone choose to exercise the right to Keep arms in their home, what kind of blithering idiot they may be, how little training they might have, or what laws they understand...as long as it is in their house. I figure anyone who enters their house without permission deserves whatever they're going to get.

However...the second they walk out the door with their firearm to exercise their right to bear arms, that right to do so comes up against my right to public safety. If they don't understand when they can draw their weapon, or how their weapon functions, or how to hit something if they use their weapon, then they put my life and that of my family's in danger. So when the government proposes that you have at least a basic safety class that includes instruction on what the laws for use of force are, I don't have a problem with it...in fact I invite it.

Sorry...I don't think a person has a right to be a menace to society, which is exactly what an untrained individual is outside of his home walking around with a loaded firearm.

The "public safety" argument doesn't hold water. They'd have to ban cars, swimming pools, and a bunch of other things first.

And, while training is a good thing, most of the AD's/ND's affect only the person with the gun or someone in their family. (Although, I admit that the NYPD shootings we've been hearing about make one wonder... Oh, wait! The police have LOTS of training! Hmmmm....)

 

[Rocketgeezer]

Hey Blues you only forgot one thing, its where I was accused of spinning things to support only my opinion

 

[HaroldB]

I agree to the arming of Teachers

Any trained, responsible, adult should carry and the BGs will maybe think twice before acting or it could be their last mistake.

 

[95and05]

I understand what your saying also I beleive GA doe's not have any training requierment, and who knows what others may not, Alaska, Vermont,.........but you are a little off on the permit cost's class's run anywhere from $40 to $85. and the state gets $115, and then the $50 every four years

While Alaska does not require a permit for CC in state they do offer permits for those of us willing to take the training and go through the BG check.

The question is should guns be allowed in school, the answer is YES. How they get their is immaterial, that should be left up to the school. States need to alter their laws to allow the presence of legal guns in schools by authorized carries, PERIOD.

From Link Removed

AS 11.61.195. Misconduct involving weapons in the second degree.
(a) A person commits the crime of misconduct involving weapons in the second degree if the person
knowingly
(1) possesses a firearm during the commission of an offense under AS 11.71.010*‐*11.71.040;
(2) violates AS 11.61.200(a)(1) and is within the grounds of or on a parking lot immediately adjacent
to
(A) a public or private preschool, elementary, junior high, or secondary school without the
permission of the chief administrative officer of the school or district or the designee of the chief
administrative officer; or...

This make a provision for some CC in schools but it is based on the opinion of one or two individuals (at least in AK).

 

[BluesStringer]

Hey Blues you only forgot one thing, its where I was accused of spinning things to support only my opinion

Whatever that means. I answered and directly addressed what you did say. That was frustrating enough. No need to make up stuff you didn't say and then respond to that.

I have no idea what the above post even means. Working on increasing your post-count maybe? That's the only way this makes any sense.

Blues

 

[cluznar]

Well right now we have two states, Utah and Ohio giving teachers Free CCW classes. I'm willing to bet there will be more also.

:dirol: