AA Alcoholics Anonymous) participation - disqualify CCW

[S&W645]

I know several attorneys that attend meetings. They would love this challenge.

Many would do it just for fun of making the DA look bad. And then there would be the reaming that the judge might give too. And it does happen. Sometimes even in front of the jury. :biggrin: Many DAs who are young and trying to prove a name for themselves would try to bring up the AA. Older DAs are normally wiser and know better, unless on a vendetta.

 

[antietam]

I know several attorneys that attend meetings. They would love this challenge.

If opportunity permits please encourage any of your attorney friends to ponder and expound on the points of this thread. Professional opinions are needed and welcome. Thanks

 

[diannabill]

So is this a purely hypothetical thread? Have you applied yet? I'm actually looking forward to finding out that you successfully got a CCL despite attending A.A. I personally think that it's not going to be an issue. But hey - that's my opinion. I'm ready for some facts!

 

[antietam]

So is this a purely hypothetical thread? Have you applied yet? I'm actually looking forward to finding out that you successfully got a CCL despite attending A.A. I personally think that it's not going to be an issue. But hey - that's my opinion. I'm ready for some facts!

Yes, purely hypothetical, thanks.

 

[RJT CCW]

This is an excellent reference regarding compelled AA attendance to meet parole requirements and the courts' view of that mandate and AA. Thanks.
I'm interested however, in AA atendance by a CCW holder or applicant and how or if that participation with its implications can be used [by a DA or other government agency] as supplemental evidence or reason to suspend or revoke a CCW license [or deny a CCW applicant] if the person is under investigation for a crime where carrying would or could endanger the public.

If a CCW holder was under the investigation of a crime they would probably have had their CCW pulled by the sheriff already. I understand where the OP is coming from, not wanting anything that can be used against you in a court of law. But reality is, if a PA wants to put you behind bars they will dig up every little bit of dirt on you they can (did he kick his dog, spit onthe sidewalk, swear at his mother, etc.)

As for attending AA and being able to apply for a CCW, that would depend on which state the applicant resides in and what their states laws read. Here in Missouri, if a person shows a pattern of behavior, that in the opinion of the sheriff poses a threat to themselves or others, they can be denied a CCW permit. So the question then is, did the person have a pattern of behavior prior to application that would lead the local sheriff to believe that granting a CCW permit would not be in their best interest? Going to AA indicates a prior problem with alcohol consumption, was this documented as public record? If so, then receiving a CCW may be an issue (at least in my state). How about yours? What does your law say?

 

[antietam]

If a CCW holder was under the investigation of a crime they would probably have had their CCW pulled by the sheriff already. I understand where the OP is coming from, not wanting anything that can be used against you in a court of law. But reality is, if a PA wants to put you behind bars they will dig up every little bit of dirt on you they can (did he kick his dog, spit onthe sidewalk, swear at his mother, etc.)

As for attending AA and being able to apply for a CCW, that would depend on which state the applicant resides in and what their states laws read. Here in Missouri, if a person shows a pattern of behavior, that in the opinion of the sheriff poses a threat to themselves or others, they can be denied a CCW permit. So the question then is, did the person have a pattern of behavior prior to application that would lead the local sheriff to believe that granting a CCW permit would not be in their best interest? Going to AA indicates a prior problem with alcohol consumption, was this documented as public record? If so, then receiving a CCW may be an issue (at least in my state). How about yours? What does your law say?

RJT CCW:
You excellently covered every aspect of the thread question. Your, "not wanting anything that can be used against you in a court of law. But reality is, if a PA wants to put you behind bars they will dig up every little bit of dirt on you they can (did he kick his dog, spit onthe sidewalk, swear at his mother, etc.)" is key to the point of this thread.
diannabill's question to the hypothetical scenario is important but we have to realize that the scenario exists - has to, somewhere. Thanks for not assuming that the title, "Anonymous," means anything at all if the right tax-funded infinitely-resourced-employee wants to know.

 

[tommy62]

As the courts can get in trouble for even forcing one to go to AA/NA, it really shouldn't matter. Courts can only order treatment. Where depends on what the person wants. IMHO, it really should be nobody's business but the person attending. Even moreso if you go on your own.

Case law is at http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2007/09/07/0615474.pdf Person objected on religious grounds.

I love it. A devout Budhist that bangs methamphetamine has an objection to a spiritual not religious program.

 

[tommy62]

If opportunity permits please encourage any of your attorney friends to ponder and expound on the points of this thread. Professional opinions are needed and welcome. Thanks

I forgot to mention that they are also CCWers.

 

[kelcarry]

Leaving aside state law and not having read all the replies, when I saw the question my first thought was a great big "WHY?". The argument for alcohol, being drunk and being CC are obvious--what membership in AA has to do with CC is, IMO, ridiculous. I understand where this argument is coming from but to stretch it into the assumption that because you are in AA that makes you a living breathing 24/7 out of control drunk is just stupid.

 

[antietam]

Leaving aside state law and not having read all the replies, when I saw the question my first thought was a great big "WHY?". The argument for alcohol, being drunk and being CC are obvious--what membership in AA has to do with CC is, IMO, ridiculous. I understand where this argument is coming from but to stretch it into the assumption that because you are in AA that makes you a living breathing 24/7 out of control drunk is just stupid.

Why did you waste so many words on a thread you're not interested in and obviously didn't read enough to grasp. Move on and growl somewhere else.

 

[antietam]

The same poster previously stated that I was "obviously hostile" toward SC LEO's for explaining that caneguns are considered "Any Other Weapon" under the National Firearms Act rules. I can't follow most of his logic. Of course the same poster also growled at NavyLT for OC'ing at Applebees.

Roger that. Some folks just have to walk in others' rooms, yell or whine and then search for a new one to do it over again.

 

[Treo]

If anything it shows that the individual is being responsable.

Or it shows the individual knows there are some damn freaky women in A.A. and was lookin' to get laid.

Just sayin' :biggrin:

 

[antietam]

Or it shows the individual knows there are some damn freaky women in A.A. and was lookin' to get laid.

Just sayin' :biggrin:

Treo, humorous as usual and we need it - but Seeya got it right - an important issue to someone finding AA a necessity and coincidently connected with a 2nd Amendment right.

 

[kelcarry]

My oh my antietam aren't we a bit miffed? I'll make a deal with you---I will continue to write and say what I want and you can just ignore my comments; that way you do not have to have a "hissy fit" over them. Last I looked you were not the moderator nor the owner of this forum--your personal comments demean you. God Bless and Peace Brother.

 

[antietam]

My oh my antietam aren't we a bit miffed? I'll make a deal with you---I will continue to write and say what I want and you can just ignore my comments; that way you do not have to have a "hissy fit" over them. Last I looked you were not the moderator nor the owner of this forum--your personal comments demean you. God Bless and Peace Brother.

What a hoot! Why don't you actually read the thread; you admitted you had not. See the civility in which folks responded until you showed up. The question was, why do you respond to a thread which disinterests you? Please move on and be a bayunco somewhere else - and we're not brothers.

 

[antietam]

CCW holders and applicants share life’s problems like any demographic group, including AA (Alcoholics Anonymous). Few civil folks challenge the importance and success of AA and its founders, Bill Wilson and Dr. Bob Smith – widely hailed and endorsed by many legal and social agencies since 1935.

This thread poses an AA hypothetical question – with scenarios related to a God-given right to carry firearms, the impeding state and federal hoops permitting God to authorize the hoops, and the CCW AA member! The entire purpose of AA is to assist, befriend and support those who finally realize and become willing to admit that they have a mountain to overcome – and WANT to overcome it! This mountain cannot be reduced to legal definitions and pharisaical hype. The mountain is mainly contained and climbed within AA’s membership – secret to them but thoroughly exposed to any government agency bent on knowing – “knowing” for the purpose of charging, accusing or pursuing a suspect, not necessarily a convicted person – but mere suspect.

AA participants are largely USA citizens. Is it assumed that they should not be legal gun owners, much less concealed gun owners? Is it possible that USA Carry has never addressed this issue? Is this thread the first serious discussion on AA USA Carry?

The dirty reality is that a significant percentage of CCWs would benefit from AA, Alcoholics Anonymous, based upon the known overall population dealing with alcohol and drug abuse. It’s reasonable to see that vitriol against this thread rings a bell that his (her) arguement is against the mirror.

 

[lukem]

Leaving aside state law and not having read all the replies, when I saw the question my first thought was a great big "WHY?". The argument for alcohol, being drunk and being CC are obvious--what membership in AA has to do with CC is, IMO, ridiculous. I understand where this argument is coming from but to stretch it into the assumption that because you are in AA that makes you a living breathing 24/7 out of control drunk is just stupid.

I don't see anything wrong with asking the question the OP asked. And why do you have to jump all over his case? I don't see anything ridiculous about it. If he wants to know if being in AA will affect getting a permit, what's wrong with that?

You can just stay out of it if you are just going to start pissing matches with people. First warning.

 

[antietam]

I don't see anything wrong with asking the question the OP asked. And why do you have to jump all over his case? I don't see anything ridiculous about it. If he wants to know if being in AA will affect getting a permit, what's wrong w ith that?

You can just stay out of it if you are just going to start pissing matches with people. First warning.

You're as uncivil as kelcarry and didn't address the civility of the thread before kelcarry chimed in with insult and nothing to contribute. He admitted that he had not read the bulk of thread. You just delivered a general lazy warning - no work or effort to make this admin decision. Make it the final warning and shut me out of this good 'ol boys club.

 

[lukem]

No problem. That's a first time anyone has asked to be banned. Glad I could help you with that.

 

[Treo]

CCW holders and applicants share life’s problems like any demographic group, including AA (Alcoholics Anonymous). Few civil folks challenge the importance and success of AA and its founders, Bill Wilson and Dr. Bob Smith – widely hailed and endorsed by many legal and social agencies since 1935.

The dirty reality is that a significant percentage of CCWs would benefit from AA, Alcoholics Anonymous, based upon the known overall population dealing with alcohol and drug abuse. It’s reasonable to see that vitriol against this thread rings a bell that his (her) arguement is against the mirror.

I don't want to go too far off track but A.A.s sucess rate ( around 5%) is pretty dismal. I did A.A. for 14 years and left because I got tired of personalities before principle ( yes that was a dog wistle). I find that I do better apart from A.A. than a part of A.A.

The dirty reality id that Bill died drunk