AA Alcoholics Anonymous) participation - disqualify CCW

[antietam]

Will participation in Alcoholics Anonymous disqualify a CCW applicant or jeopardize an existing CCW holder's license, if CCW licensing officials in a given state obtain knowledge of the participation?

 

[bob16066]

I'm never sure about PA Firearms laws as they are so vague. But on the Application for a Pennsylvania License to Carry Firearms they do have two alcohol related questions:

1. Are you a habitual drunkard?

2. Have you had five or more DUIs?

So I'm assuming that if you attend AA you may or may not be considered an "Habitual Drunkard." And denied a Permit.

 

[Treo]

I ignore the question I haven't had a drink in 28 years as far as I'm concerned it's irrelevant

 

[S&W645]

Will participation in Alcoholics Anonymous disqualify a CCW applicant or jeopardize an existing CCW holder's license, if CCW licensing officials in a given state obtain knowledge of the participation?

Question best asked is that AA requirement a part of a probation requirement? Any probation in Florida is grounds for having a gun owner charged with violating FS 948.03(1)(l) unless the owner gets approval from the judge and probation officer to have guns. That includes persons on Community Control. A DUI probation is included.

(l) Be prohibited from possessing, carrying, or owning any firearm unless authorized by the court and consented to by the probation officer.

 

[S&W645]

I ignore the question I haven't had a drink in 28 years as far as I'm concerned it's irrelevant

Same here as I don't drink or abuse medications.

 

[antietam]

Question best asked is that AA requirement a part of a probation requirement? Any probation in Florida is grounds for having a gun owner charged with violating FS 948.03(1)(l) unless the owner gets approval from the judge and probation officer to have guns. That includes persons on Community Control. A DUI probation is included.

Thanks for the info - it is good to know this but the question is not:

1. an invitation for those who don't drink or haven't in many years, to declare so
2. related to DUIs - DUI ramifications are obvious

Simply, will attendance and participation in AA alone, without any medical determination or crime factors, affect a CCW applicant or an existing CCW holder? I'm interested in variance, state by state on this.

bob16066: interesting about PA, I'm thinking that most states vaguely word this issue so it can swing any way, thanks.

 

[JohnL]

My answer is no, albeit unqualified.

In dealing with four states over the years I have found a general vagueness. I consider that the State is using the everyday pedestrian meaning of words and conditions rather than a clinical, recovery, or dogmatic intent.

A person with twenty years continuous sobriety is an alcoholic and is still addicted to alcohol as far as the recovery community is concerned. The same person "used to be an alcoholic" to his cousin's wife.

The only specificity I have seen is in regards to inpatient or outpatient treatment and a period of years since.

 

[Treo]

In Colorado (FWIW) if you can prove 3 years of sobriety the question doesn't apply to you.

In my case all my records concerning alcohol were juvie and they were sealed the day iturned 18. Officially, I am not an alcoholic ( personally I don't really care if I am or not I haven't drank in over half my life and see no point in starting now)

Bottom line (IMO) if you've been clean for over 5 years I wouldn't worry about it

 

[Seeya]

It is a personal choice to go to AA meetings. It has no legal status unless it is court ordered. It is your personal business. I have gone to understand people that have come into my life and to support said people. I believe it is protected in much the same way attendance to a religious organization is, it could be a discrimination issue and a violation of privacy laws.

 

[billwot]

Remember that AA stands for alcoholics anonymous. How would any governmental agency have knowledge of your participation?

Different states have different rules regarding an applicants history of drug and alcohol use. Here in NC, the only relevant question is "have you been convicted of DUI in the past 3 years?"

 

[antietam]

Remember that AA stands for alcoholics anonymous. How would any governmental agency have knowledge of your participation?

Different states have different rules regarding an applicants history of drug and alcohol use. Here in NC, the only relevant question is "have you been convicted of DUI in the past 3 years?"

Good point but I stopped assuming that the government won't collect any information on anybody, anytime - (since the Patriot Act - just mentioning it, not stirring another topic) It's not like they couldn't get this anonymous info if they wanted it. I can see a DA retrieve the so-called anonymous information to pursue and compound a legal issue upon a CCW not directly related to AA.

 

[diannabill]

IMHO, assuming you don't have any of the legal issues that may surround someone with an alcohol problem, I can't see how simply attending AA would have any bearing on getting a license.

First of all, how would they even know?

 

[antietam]

It is a personal choice to go to AA meetings. It has no legal status unless it is court ordered. It is your personal business. I have gone to understand people that have come into my life and to support said people. I believe it is protected in much the same way attendance to a religious organization is, it could be a discrimination issue and a violation of privacy laws.

Good stuff - I don't attend AA but know a couple friends who swear by it and its integrity. One is a CCW but I've never felt that her "problem" an issue with carrying because I've no knowledge that she carries drunk - certain, according to her sister, that she has a clean criminal background.

 

[antietam]

IMHO, assuming you don't have any of the legal issues that may surround someone with an alcohol problem, I can't see how simply attending AA would have any bearing on getting a license.

First of all, how would they even know?

Read the current replies and your question should be answered. "First of all, how would they even know?" Amazing assumption.

 

[diannabill]

Read the current replies and your question should be answered. "First of all, how would they even know?" Amazing assumption.

I guess I'm confused then. Even assuming they manage to find out a person is attending AA, what requirement to get a CCL would be violated by the fact that they attend?

 

[antietam]

IMHO, assuming you don't have any of the legal issues that may surround someone with an alcohol problem, I can't see how simply attending AA would have any bearing on getting a license.

First of all, how would they even know?

I should have communicated early on that AA folks become friends and bond like any social group and the anonymity fades away. Certainly, the "institution" of AA keeps members and participants anonymous, except against a court ordered subpoena. It is in this light that I ask the question - "would mere participation in AA weigh against the CCW if a DA pursued legal action against a CCW relating to an separate issue, and in the name of "public safety?"

 

[antietam]

I guess I'm confused then. Even assuming they manage to find out a person is attending AA, what requirement to get a CCL would be violated by the fact that they attend?

My bad - I failed to communicate very well at all on this.
Example: A person is under DA scrutiny for a legal issue, not charged at this time. At this point it's often public information already. The person is either a CCW applicant or already a CCW holder. In the name of "public safety," could the DA request and acquire a restraint on the application or revocation of the CCW license under the assumption that the person's "drinking or drug problem," as implicated by AA attendance and statements made (discovered by interrogating fellow AA members), is a threat to public safety?

 

[Seeya]

My bad - I failed to communicate very well at all on this.
Example: A person is under DA scrutiny for a legal issue, not charged at this time. At this point it's often public information already. The person is either a CCW applicant or already a CCW holder. In the name of "public safety," could the DA request and acquire a restraint on the application or revocation of the CCW license under the assumption that the person's "drinking or drug problem," as implicated by AA attendance and statements made (discovered by interrogating fellow AA members), is a threat to public safety?

Scrutinize the DA!

here are some SCOTUS opinions that might help.

Supreme Law School : E-mail : Box 036 : Msg 03678

more helpful sites:

Link Removed

UNDERSTANDING JURISDICTION

 

[Seeya]

I'm never sure about PA Firearms laws as they are so vague. But on the Application for a Pennsylvania License to Carry Firearms they do have two alcohol related questions:

1. Are you a habitual drunkard?

2. Have you had five or more DUIs?

So I'm assuming that if you attend AA you may or may not be considered an "Habitual Drunkard." And denied a Permit.

Habitual Drunkard is a subjective term. Legislative jargon. Not defined legaly and if, can be challenged to validity.

5 or more DUI's: are bartenders licensed? I ask because I have become intoxicated at bars more often then anywhere else by a greedy bartender who's tip is based on the amount of my tab and my mood when I pay my bill. Tip's = Commision. Car Saleman are Licensed, any commercial activity can be licensed. which brings me to this.

License = permission of authority

Right = no permission needed

Before Prohibition 18th amendment repealed by the 21st amendment elected officials left the private people/citizen's alone so long as he did not do harm to another and no license was required to carry a weapon. Yes there were local laws that were found to violate the Consitution of the Republic of the United States of America.

 

[BC1]

If your participation is purely voluntary I don't believe ther is any proof of attendane. AA means anonymous. There is no registration or sign-in sheet.