America is a Christian Nation

Science can explain it, yet some choose to just file it all under "god magic". I really don't understand why christians are so in denial of science, at least until they have a serious illness, when they demand that 'science' save them..... yet after all of medical save them (or a loved one), god gets the credit.

Save your money, no need to spend $100,000's when god dunnit. Right?

I just read an article that said, "Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." There is some merit to that. However, Carl Sagan said, "The notion that science and spirituality are somehow mutually exclusive does a disservice to both." I happen to believe in both, therefore, I have no heartburn. A woman by the name of S. Kelley Harrell said, "I don't argue things being spiritual vs. scientific, because I've never met anyone who knows enough about either to be convincing--including myself. I take her statement to be very truthful and one that we should all take to heart. But the one statement that stands out the most for me was by Henry J. Eyring, "There isn't anything to worry about between science and religion, because the contradictions are just in your own mind. Of course they are there, but they are not in the Lord's mind because He made the whole thing, so there is a way, if we are smart enough to understand them so that we will not have any contradictions."

In other words, science can not explain everything, we do need a little "God Magic." XD, we do not all deny science, neither do we deny religion. That seems to be a difficult concept for you to understand or except. There is no "mutual exclusivity."
 
In other words, science can not explain everything, we do need a little "God Magic." XD, we do not all deny science, neither do we deny religion. That seems to be a difficult concept for you to understand or except. There is no "mutual exclusivity."

No, science cannot explain everything, yet, or perhaps never, but to fill the gaps in knowledge with "goddunnit" and stop seeking knowledge is to surrender to the ignorance.

Science knows that there are gaps in knowledge that why they continue to seek knowledge. Religion merely says 'goddunnit' and stick their head back in the sand.

Earlier you seem to be defending the tall tale of Noah and the big boat. Really? I questioned that as a child as beyond absurd.... and you are how old? And you tried to 'justify' it with "we don't know how many species existed then".... are you that desperate?

Your god is an ever shrinking pocket of scientific ignorance.
 
Who has said to stop seeking knowledge? Not me. There are people smarter than both of us who can not agree on science and religion yet I don't consider any of them ignorant. Ignorance is defined as lacking education or knowledge. I have education and knowledge; you have education and knowledge. Neither of us are ignorant, we just don't see eye to eye. Science evolves everyday and I do not deny it in any way. I do not deny religion. I believe in religion, you don't, yet I don't consider you ignorant. Do I believe "God dunnit?"
In some cases, absolutely. I will never say that God didn't intervene in something because I don't know. By the same token, I won't say He did because, there again, I don't know. I firmly believe in the possibility however.

The Bible mentions the flood and Noah's ark. As I have said before, I don't get bent out of shape over something I can't possibly answer. The Bible said it so I take it at face value. What about the parting of the Red Sea by Moses? Do you believe that? The Bible says it so I accept it without doubt. Not only did the Red Sea part but the Israelites crossed on dry ground through the midst of the sea. After the Israelites crossed, the Egyptians followed and were drowned when the sea closed back. Tall tale? Could be but I believe it just as I believe the rest of the Bible. XD, I have no need to justify anything in the Bible. Either you believe it or you don't. I choose to believe and no one will ever convince me otherwise. Can I explain every question that comes up about the Bible? No. Can you prove the Bible is wrong? No, you have only your own personal opinion. Neither of us is stupid.

To quote Albert Einstein, "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing it is stupid." I think we both know how to climb a tree.
 
For all those who like to claim America is a christian nation, will you own up to this:

native_american_genocide
 
For all those who like to claim America is a christian nation, will you own up to this:

native_american_genocide
Nice try, but there weren't 100 million people in America at that time. According to pre-census government records the estimate is 306,000 to 330,000 Indians lived in America between 1860 and 1890. In 1880 there were about 50 million people in total. The photo/poster is another attempt at playing with the facts.

Source: National Archives and Records Administration

What's interesting about the photo is the Indian has light or blue eyes????
 
Who has said to stop seeking knowledge?
Contradict yourself much?
The Bible mentions the flood and Noah's ark. As I have said before, I don't get bent out of shape over something I can't possibly answer. The Bible said it so I take it at face value.
When you fail to routinely question your beliefs you have placed large parts of your mythology into a "holy", "sacred", "unquestionable" or "god-given" category, where a large space is created for more extreme beliefs to take hold in the same categories, and lead the community down some potentially dangerous paths. The way to end all this is to put an end to the idea that religious beliefs should not be routinely questioned.

How a grown man, that probably saw a lot of the world in the service can look himself in the mirror and say "I believe all the species in the world spent a year on a 450' long boat" is beyond me.
 
Nice try, but there weren't 100 million people in America at that time. According to pre-census government records the estimate is 306,000 to 330,000 Indians lived in America between 1860 and 1890. In 1880 there were about 50 million people in total. The photo/poster is another attempt at playing with the facts.

Source: National Archives and Records Administration

What's interesting about the photo is the Indian has light or blue eyes????

I guess your background causes to haggle about numbers, so tell us what percentage of that 300,000 were killed by the christian settlers and would that not qualify for genocide?

Blue/light eyed Indian? You don't suppose that these christian settlers might have also raped the women? Naw, christians would never do anything like that :wink:
 
Contradict yourself much?

When you fail to routinely question your beliefs you have placed large parts of your mythology into a "holy", "sacred", "unquestionable" or "god-given" category, where a large space is created for more extreme beliefs to take hold in the same categories, and lead the community down some potentially dangerous paths. The way to end all this is to put an end to the idea that religious beliefs should not be routinely questioned.

How a grown man, that probably saw a lot of the world in the service can look himself in the mirror and say "I believe all the species in the world spent a year on a 450' long boat" is beyond me.

XD; You are using circular arguments in an attempt to prove your point, a point you can't prove anymore than I can unequivocally say how many animals were placed on Noah's ark. Yours is not an argument of fact, only your particular thoughts on the subject. You have nothing to base your ideas on other than speculation by yourself and others. Even the science you want to reference can not give us a definitive answer to all things, only educated guesses. There is none alive who can emphatically say that what the Bible says is true. It is only by faith that we accept it. Then, there are many, many passages in the Bible to verify that our faith is true. Prophecies past, present and projected future events are validating our faith every day. Do we seek knowledge? Absolutely. Knowledge of the secular world as well as religion. There is no contradiction there, only your perceived ideas. Being religious does not make one stupid and out of tune with the rest of the world. Religion and science do validate each other. History validates both theories. If one chooses to go off on another tangent, so be it. That is a personal choice but, by making that choice, doesn't negate the choices or validity of others. So, in the long run, all we have here is a difference of opinions.

Religion has had a bloody history trough out the ages. There is no denying that and it continues today. If you will be totally honest with yourself, you can see how the fight against Christianity is increasing and is in tune with the Bible. Try as you may, you can not dispute that fact and can see how our country is running away from God and His precepts. The laws our country has have been founded on Biblical principles. One can not deny the religious prohibitions of marriage or inter-marriage because science has proven the disastrous results of such unions. Other laws were followed and societies developed rather than being lawless and chaos reigning.Yes science has verified Biblical rules. Many laws of today are based on those same principles and have been followed for thousands of years. It is only when we started going against those rules that our nation started to fail and I don't doubt that that can be proved scientifically.

Our arguments/discussions can go on ad infinitum but neither of us will be satisfied with the other''s take. I prefer God and can never be persuaded that He does not exist. You prefer to take a secular stand and obviously can not change either. As I have said before, you and I are at an impasse. So, "Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?"

By the way, doesn't no gods realize that his ancestors probably participated in the eradication of the Indians?
 
God is a God of miracles. He can do things unimagined by man. So if the Bible says he did it, He did it. Period. Who cares what anybody thinks today?
It is done.
 
God is a God of miracles. He can do things unimagined by man. So if the Bible says he did it, He did it. Period. Who cares what anybody thinks today?
It is done.

Well, the bibles' god (the one that calls itself "I am, I am" to distinguish itself from the other two dozen or so gods named in the bibles) siad it had already determined the moment you will die, and you won't die a moment before or a moment after.

So tell me - why are you carrying a self-defense weapon? Do you think you can override your god's determination for you?
 
XD; You are using circular arguments in an attempt to prove your point, a point you can't prove anymore than I can unequivocally say how many animals were placed on Noah's ark.
Neither can you, but you choose to debate any estimated number. Where did all of the millions of species alive today come from? The ark or that other inconvenient fact, called evolution. I have this habit that annoys some people, I think, I reason, I question, and I form conclusions based on facts, and I find the willful ignorance of "the bible says so" to the ultimate practice of self-deprivation.

Yours is not an argument of fact, only your particular thoughts on the subject. You have nothing to base your ideas on other than speculation by yourself and others. Even the science you want to reference can not give us a definitive answer to all things, only educated guesses.
Whoa... fact is the basis for my points of view. All the species cannot fit on any single boat, nor would it be possible to even gather every species in one place at one time. I would have taken a year or better to travel to and back Australia and collect animals, yet they all showed up when it started raining.
The very last thing you have offered is fact, and the deeper you dig into the delusions of your bible, the further from fact you go. No argument science does not have all the answers, and may never, yet the science continues to fill in the gaps in knowledge everyday, religion merely says "I don't know, so goddunnit" and stubbornly remains stupid.

There is none alive who can emphatically say that what the Bible says is true.
You and several others here seem to have no problem saying that the entire bible is true... in fact you did recently in a post. Yet only about 30% of christians take it literally, and 10% of christians see it as a book of fables.

Religion has had a bloody history trough out the ages. There is no denying that and it continues today. If you will be totally honest with yourself, you can see how the fight against Christianity is increasing and is in tune with the Bible. Try as you may, you can not dispute that fact and can see how our country is running away from God and His precepts.
You say that like it was a bad thing. How great it would be if people actually discarded all the hate they use religion and the bible to justify. Where does the visceral hatred toward gays come from, religion. Where does racist hate come from, gender equality, hate for other religions, hate for those that don't believe.... yep, religion.

The laws our country has have been founded on Biblical principles. One can not deny the religious prohibitions of marriage or inter-marriage because science has proven the disastrous results of such unions. Other laws were followed and societies developed rather than being lawless and chaos reigning.Yes science has verified Biblical rules. Many laws of today are based on those same principles and have been followed for thousands of years. It is only when we started going against those rules that our nation started to fail and I don't doubt that that can be proved scientifically.
First, our founding document is counter to the biblical principles. "All men are created equal" is clearly not a biblical principle.
But as you point many laws have been enacted on biblical principles, by men who think like you do, only to be struck down because they are counter to the document that founded this country, the Constitution.
Exactly what are these disastrous results of unions, what unions, and exactly what is this "inter-marriage" you referenced. Did you mean interracial-marriage or what?

Our arguments/discussions can go on ad infinitum but neither of us will be satisfied with the other''s take. I prefer God and can never be persuaded that He does not exist. You prefer to take a secular stand and obviously can not change either. As I have said before, you and I are at an impasse. So, "Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?"

By the way, doesn't no gods realize that his ancestors probably participated in the eradication of the Indians?
Whether nogods does or not has no bearing on him, or this discussion. Nor do I buy into the bull **** that I was born with sin just because I was born. How effing stupid.... yet one of the teaching of christianity to manipulate people.
 
Sorry XD, I have no more time for your BS. You seem to have a difficult time in accepting the fact that people will not acquiesce to your assertions of always being correct. I had no idea you considered yourself so omniscient. The rest of us are plagued with only having finite wisdom so, obviously, there is no reason for us to even attempt to tell you how we think and believe. You don't seem to have the capacity to understand those of us on a lower plane but we will strive to make our way in our small world. Hope the air isn't too thin up there on your lofty throne.
 
Sorry XD, I have no more time for your BS. You seem to have a difficult time in accepting the fact that people will not acquiesce to your assertions of always being correct. I had no idea you considered yourself so omniscient. The rest of us are plagued with only having finite wisdom so, obviously, there is no reason for us to even attempt to tell you how we think and believe. You don't seem to have the capacity to understand those of us on a lower plane but we will strive to make our way in our small world. Hope the air isn't too thin up there on your lofty throne.

My feet are on the ground, but more importantly my head is not filled with the delusions of gods, heaven, sugar plumb fairies and no telling what else, and that is why I stick with my views, and no I don't know everything, but I can sure figure out absurd bull ****, especially when shoveled in the quantities coming from fantasy world. You pound on one rather small book and declare "it's all in here". You sir are your own worst enemy.

But it is funny, is a sad way, the adult that believes in all the nonsense of the big boat, a minority amongst believers, calling someone else's views BS. You offer no reason to support that view either, why is that? How did Noah gather, feed and care for and clean up after 10's of thousands of animals that wanted to eat each other. There must be a rational hypothesis, right?

You shall learn the truth one day, you just won't know it.

Adios
 
Yet again when you have nothing to offer but irrational fear, play the Pascal's Wager card......
Hebrews 9:27
"And as it is appointed unto men once to DIE, but after this the JUDGMENT"

You shall learn the truth too, one second after you're dead. That truth is HELL, and you will know it...FOREVER.​
 
Hebrews 9:27
"And as it is appointed unto men once to DIE, but after this the JUDGMENT"

You shall learn the truth too, one second after you're dead. That truth is HELL, and you will know it...FOREVER.​

Yet again when you have nothing to offer but irrational fear, play the Pascal's Wager card...... and quotes from a book of fairy tales..... :wink:
 
Yet again when you have nothing to offer but irrational fear, play the Pascal's Wager card...... and quotes from a book of fairy tales..... :wink:

XD's only hope is that there is no AFTERLIFE, his greatest FEAR is that there IS. :wink:
 
XD's only hope is that there is no AFTERLIFE, his greatest FEAR is that there IS. :wink:

Silly boy, fairy tales are for children, or those with child like minds.... for these are the only ones that fairy tales scare.....

But again with Pascal's Wager and red uppercase font.... how silly.
 
Silly boy, fairy tales are for children, or those with child like minds.... for these are the only ones that fairy tales scare.....

But again with Pascal's Wager and red uppercase font.... how silly.
XD's only hope is that there is no AFTERLIFE, his greatest fear is that there IS. :wink:
 

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