ATF Valentine's Day Massacre - Say Goodbye to M855 Ammo (and others too)

bofh said:
FYI: Link Removed

M855 is not “constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium”.

Also, M855 isn’t “designed or intended for use in a handgun”, its jacket is “less than 25% of the weight of the projectile”, and it’s debatable whether .223 can be called “larger than .22 caliber.”

M855 simply does not meet the legal standard to be classified as armor piercing ammunition. The BAFTE certainly knows that and either counts on not being legally challenged on a ban, or aims at driving up ammo prices by proposing a ban.
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"Not intended for use"? It is intended for use in any gun that can safely chamber it. Here is an example of one that can.
We have a similar one in the shop. It is a pistol that is intended to chamber all common 5.56/.223 rounds. Do not get me wrong, I think they are out of bounds but for other reasons. They point to the .30-06 M2AP rounds as not being affected but if someone comes out with a handgun that holds more than one round at a time, it too will come up for review again. I'm really surprised that they haven't done the same to the 7.62x39 rounds.
 
They may lack the authority. But they don't lack the ability to turn this into a legal circus that will last for months, if not many expensive YEARS for anyone who chooses to fight it. Obama has pulled this type of crap through his entire Presidency.
 
billt said:
They may lack the authority. But they don't lack the ability to turn this into a legal circus that will last for months, if not many expensive YEARS for anyone who chooses to fight it. Obama has pulled this type of crap through his entire Presidency.
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Problem is, they can get away with it until a court finally rules against them. And as you say, it will be a circus with 0bozo being the head clown.
 
Look at the whole amnesty deal. Now you've got a judge in Texas ruling against Obama's Executive Order. That will be challenged all the way to the Supreme Court. This will be no different. (Assuming some pro gun organization takes on the fight). He's simply gaming the system in order to gum up the whole works.
 
S&W645 said:
"Not intended for use"? It is intended for use in any gun that can safely chamber it. Here is an example of one that can.
We have a similar one in the shop. It is a pistol that is intended to chamber all common 5.56/.223 rounds. Do not get me wrong, I think they are out of bounds but for other reasons. They point to the .30-06 M2AP rounds as not being affected but if someone comes out with a handgun that holds more than one round at a time, it too will come up for review again. I'm really surprised that they haven't done the same to the 7.62x39 rounds.
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... That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works. ...

The law (18 U.S.C. 921(a)(17)(B)(ii)) spells out that the ammunition needs to be "designed or intended for use in a handgun" to be able to be classified as armor piercing. It doesn't matter how the ammunition eventually is being used.

18 U.S.C. 921(a)(17)(B):

(B) The term “armor piercing ammunition” means—

(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper or depleted uranium; or

(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.
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Note that M855 does not meet the 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(17)(B)(i) or 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(17)(B)(ii) criteria. Also note the silliness of the difference between an AR (short-barreled) rifle and an AR pistol: a buttstock, or a vertical foregrip, or an arm brace that is being shouldered.
 
bofh said:
... That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works. ...

The law (18 U.S.C. 921(a)(17)(B)(ii)) spells out that the ammunition needs to be "designed or intended for use in a handgun" to be able to be classified as armor piercing. It doesn't matter how the ammunition eventually is being used.



Note that M855 does not meet the 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(17)(B)(i) or 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(17)(B)(ii) criteria. Also note the silliness of the difference between an AR (short-barreled) rifle and an AR pistol: a buttstock, or a vertical foregrip, or an arm brace that is being shouldered.
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I never said I agree with their thinking, I've only given you the way that they see it. 0bozo doesn't meet the requirements for what he does but until a court or Congress stops him, you will see more of this. And with how they changed their ruling on the arm brace, watch for more changes for the worse. Remember the 5.7 round brouhaha?
 
By the way, some M855/SS109 ammo is completely steel core. The front part is one type of steel while the second part of the core is another form of steel. The stuff that AIM Surplus had up for $339.50/1000 for example.
 
Forget the ban. All the publicity this has received in the last couple of weeks alone, has driven up the price on this stuff, to the point of total unaffordability for a great number of middle income and retired shooters on fixed incomes. These people represent a large demographic of the shooting public, and AR-15 owners in general. That is every bit as effective as a outright "ban". Don't think both Hussein, as well as the ATF didn't know this when they started out on this freedom robbing venture in the first place. He and his administration are operating on past experience. They all know what they did to AR-15 market and ammunition prices in general when he did nothing more than get elected..... Twice. He's good with ANY method of damaging the ability of citizens to exercise their Second Amendment rights.
 
longslide10 said:
Has it all been just propaganda for profit then? Maybe that has been the plan all along.
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Regardless of the "plan", that is what it's going to amount to. Especially now with a GOP controlled House and Senate. The more they fight, the less that gets written into law. And I'm just fine and dandy with that. We have all but legislated ourselves to death in this country. Look at California if you need proof of that. You can't blow a fart in that state without 3 permits, 4 licenses, and 2 inspections. All courtesy of their liberal, communist government. Their quality of life has decreased, while the cost of it has gone through the roof. The communist mantra for the haves is always less for more. So the have not's can have more for less to nothing.
 
Either way, they why does not matter really, it is going on and if you did not see this coming I do not know why. Ever since Bubba Klinton and Brady been buying 2 for 1. Load/shoot one, buy two. Food is next, bug in now folks. On the bright side my Armalite AR might be worth $2,500.00 and with that I can buy two more Kimber CDP IIs or maybe an Eclipse.
 
S&W645 said:
Ammo salesman of the decade, BH0. Most online sales sites are out of it.
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I don't think he's as much of a "salesman" as everyone gives him credit for. More accurately we, (gun owners) have become a bunch of panic driven sheep, who can't wait to stand in line and overpay for something that's been available for as long as dirt. ($319.00 a case for 2 cases. Before all the idiots stampeded.)

.





 
The Next Ammo-Run May Have Begun...

Without turning this into a CTD hate thread, I noticed this today on their homepage:

"Due to a high volume of orders, please allow 5 to 7 days for your order to be processed."

Also, within just a few days since I last checked the site, .223 is GONE.

Check it out: Cheaper Than Dirt! - .223 Remington and 5.56 NATO

Let the games begin.
 
gunnerbob said:
Without turning this into a CTD hate thread......................
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I don't hate CTD. In fact no one should. They are performing as pure capitalists. We, (along with the government), create this market, they're taking advantage of it, not us. No one gets taken advantage of in a market, unless they want to be taken advantage of. CTD doesn't put a gun to anyone's head. People spend what they want to get what they want. The ones who b!tch and moan about CTD usually are the ones without ammunition when things like this happen.

.

Where the hell were they when this stuff was everywhere? Were they buying? Hell no. They were either sitting around complaining about something else, or spending somewhere else. The result is always the same with these type of people. They are always the ones who get left out in the cold. They always come to the party a minute late, and a dollar short...... Usually complaining all the way. If they were as good with a buck as they are at b!tching, they'd all be millionaires. CTD isn't taking advantage of it's customers any more than the people who moved in after the housing debacle with cash, and bought from the over mortgaged idiots who were losing everything in foreclosure. CTD is doing the opposite. Why would you sell ammunition for $350.00 a case, when they're lining up to pay $700.00? That's why it is called a "free market".
 
billt said:
I don't hate CTD. In fact no one should. They are performing as pure capitalists. We, (along with the government), create this market, they're taking advantage of it, not us. No one gets taken advantage of in a market, unless they want to be taken advantage of. CTD doesn't put a gun to anyone's head. People spend what they want to get what they want. The ones who b!tch and moan about CTD usually are the ones without ammunition when things like this happen.

.

Where the hell were they when this stuff was everywhere? Were they buying? Hell no. They were either sitting around complaining about something else, or spending somewhere else. The result is always the same with these type of people. They are always the ones who get left out in the cold. They always come to the party a minute late, and a dollar short...... Usually complaining all the way. If they were as good with a buck as they are at b!tching, they'd all be millionaires. CTD isn't taking advantage of it's customers any more than the people who moved in after the housing debacle with cash, and bought from the over mortgaged idiots who were losing everything in foreclosure. CTD is doing the opposite. Why would you sell ammunition for $350.00 a case, when they're lining up to pay $700.00? That's why it is called a "free market".
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Preaching to the choir, Bill. I started storing ammo in 2011 and haven't stopped since. CTD is operating as a business should, taking advantage of supply/demand capitalism.
 
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