ATF Rules Against SIG SAUER MPX

longslide10

New member
While filming last season's studio segments for "Guns & Gear" TV, SIG SAUER brought several of their new guns to the studio as highlights of their 2014 products. One caught the eye of everyone -including production crew members who normally had no interest. It was, even to a "gun person" a strange-looking thing.

The "thing" was SIG's new MPX carbine. OK, a 9mm carbine isn't all that big a deal, but this one had a major difference: a muzzlebrake that was actually longer (9.5 inches) than the barrel itself (6.5 inches). Actually, the two weren't separable. And, being welded in place, they gave the compact carbine an overall barrel length of sixteen inches. Without the integral muzzlebrake, the short barrel itself would classify the gun as an SBR - a Short Barreled Rifle in ATF terminology. It would then be subject to all the legal constraints and registration requirements of fully-automatic guns and suppressors.

In August, the BATFE responded-negatively- to the muzzlebrake. The ATF's contention was that the brake actually wasn't a brake, classifying it instead as an interior part of suppressors known as a "monolithic baffle stack". The official denial said "welding it to a barrel does not change its design characteristics or function" and because of that, they were classifying the MPX as a Class 3 weapon.

In September SIG disagreed, and asked the ATF to reconsider.

The company stuck by its contention that the MPX's integral muzzlebrake did nothing to reduce the sound signature. As evidence, SIG submitted sound meter tests that demonstrated that the brake in fact increased the sound levels.

If you've fired a rifle with a muzzlebreak, you know what they're saying.

That same submitted testing demonstrated that the MPX's unique muzzlebreak did, however, significantly reduce both recoil and muzzle climb-its sole intended purpose.

In February, the ATF responded, telling SIG it was sticking with its original finding.

In response, SIG filed a civil suit against the ATF, claiming the ATF's incorrect ruling was causing the company significant economic injury.

"There is no market for a non-silencing silencer" SIG claims, while there is a "significant market for a muzzlebrake that decreases muzzle rise and recoil."

The ATF's classification of the MPX's integral brake a silencer, despite the fact it doesn't "silence, muffle, or diminish the report of a firearm" simply attaches "burdensome requirements set forth above as if it really is a silencer," Sig says in the suit.

If this is beginning to sound somewhat familiar, it's because we have reported on another ATF ruling recently (Judge Rules ATF "Jumped the Gun" | Shooting Wire) that was overturned by a Federal Circuit Court. In that case, the ATF classified a muzzle brake from Innovator Enterprises a suppressor. The company countered with a lawsuit saying, essentially, that the ATF went purely on cosmetic appearance rather than demonstrable performance characteristics.

On appeal, the ruling was overturned.

But U. S. District Judge John Bates disagreed, saying the ATF clearly "jumped the gun" and overturned their finding. Bates then went on to castigate the ATF for its slipshod methods, citing as examples a lack of clearly enumerated standards and their subsequently selecting "dubious standards" that served only to fit the decision they wanted to give.

In fact, Bates wrote, the finding letter "contains hardly any reasoning, and makes no reference to prior agency regulations or interpretations that support its conclusion." Instead, Judge Bates called the ATF letter a brief and informal document and "a non-binding statement of the agency's position on whether the Stabilizer Brake is a silencer."

Bate's ruling went on to remind the ATF that having "a tail, grey skin and four legs" didn't make an animal an "elephant" or a child's bicycle a motorcycle because it had "three characteristics of motorcycles: two rubber tires, handlebars and a leather seat."

He didn't stop there. He went on to point out that a Bud Light is not a Single-Malt Scotch because it is "frequently served in a glass container, contains alcohol and is served in a tavern" any more than a hockey puck is a "rubber bullet" because it has "rounded sides, is made of vulcanized rubber, and is capable of causing injury when launched at high speeds."

"Learning that one object has three characteristics in common with some category," he wrote, "may not be very helpful in determining whether the object in question belongs in that category."

With this latest example of companies pushing back against ATF rulings, it would seem that several possibilities are emerging.

The first, and most frequently offered by industry executives, is that the ATF is making a significant push to make firearms more difficult to manufacture and sell.

A complimentary observation, however, may be that the industry, seeing the BATFE continually found lacking in its methods of investigation and self-policing, sees an opportunity to push back against what have historically been decisions that were difficult to question, much less reverse.

As the industry lawsuits challenging the agency's methods mount and Congressional pressure again ramping up over disastrous ATF operations like Operations Wide Receiver and Fast & Furious, mounting evidence of capricious rulings and slapdash operations may be adding credence to claims in Congress that the BATFE has become an "out-of-control - and unnecessary agency."


- See more at: ATF Rules Against SIG SAUER MPX | Buckeye Firearms Association
 
Its about time that people / company`s start pushing back against these out of control government agencies. It seems that most of them make up the rules as they go to suite there needs. Im also glad to see the courts putting them (ATF) in there place and not falling for there bullschit either
 
"Your honor, we ask that you find the defendant guilty of prostitution for the following reasons, all of which are characteristics that have been found in common with prostitutes before:
she has a vagina and is therefore equipped for the position, she was standing on a street corner, and she was accepting money from strangers."

"Mr Prosecutor, you're aware she was ringing a bell and asking for donations to the Salvation Army?"

"The state feels that is immaterial, your honor, what she was doing had at least three characteristics in common with prostitution and therefore we are certain that the charge is warranted."
 
Isn't the MPX full auto? I didn't think civilians could own one...or is Sig selling them to civilians?

Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app
 
Its about time that people / company`s start pushing back against these out of control government agencies. It seems that most of them make up the rules as they go to suite there needs. Im also glad to see the courts putting them (ATF) in there place and not falling for there bullschit either

The whole country needs to come together to spank that fat cake eating spoiled rotten bastard of a child we call govt.....with extreme prejudice.
 
I think what many states, corporations and individuals need to do is start ignoring the govt and their BS laws, mandates, codes, statutes and what have you. STOP sending them funds collected by way of taxes--keep it in state. Will any states have the cajones to do it? I see a possible couple, AZ and MO. What do we really need the fed govt for other than border security and intercontinental commerce? They have become a self serving out of control entity will malicious intent.
 
Isn't the MPX full auto? I didn't think civilians could own one...or is Sig selling them to civilians?

Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app

Why trust one another? Go to the source. I looked on Sig Sauer's page. This is the only model of the MPX that is semi-auto: Link Removed

All the others are LE/Gov't Only submachine guns.
 
Its about time that people / company`s start pushing back against these out of control government agencies. It seems that most of them make up the rules as they go to suite there needs. Im also glad to see the courts putting them (ATF) in there place and not falling for there bullschit either

This is what government agencies have been doing for years, especially the BATFE or, as I refer to them, the American Gestapo.
 
Howdy,

Neat looking but since it has a 8" barrel it would be considered a SBR with a $200.00 tax stamp. I have an old Marlin 9mm Camp carbine that I paid $145.00 for it and it will do anything the Sig will do for $2100.00 less.

I also have a Vector MP-5/.40S&W that cost $800.00 that is much better than the Sig for $1,500.00 less than the Sig.


The ATF "claimed" it has a "monolithic baffle stack" and anyone that knows anything about silencer/suppressors knows that the easiest way for someone with limited machine shop skills and or equipment to build a silencer is by using a monolithic baffle.

The "muzzlebreak" on the Sig "could" easily be made into a silencer with a couple of beer cans, hose clamps and duct tape.

Pretty simple.

Go to this link, it has numerous pics of monocore baffled silencers:

SilencerTalk ? View topic - Supressor Baffle Pics!

Paul
 
Howdy Blues,

It is refreshing to see when you include a little bit of truth in your posts.

Blues

I ALWAYS put the truth in my post. Just because it isn't what you want to hear doesn't mean it's not the truth.

Actually you should be very leary of someone that ALWAYS tells you exactly what you want to hear because they are up to something.

Paul
 
I ALWAYS put the truth in my post.

Yeah, I don't think so Mr. "40yo SWM without children that lives with their mom and have a "Command Post" in the basement." That's a lie that you have told on this forum in probably at least half the posts you've spewed here.

Go back home, because Media Matters, Demturd Underground, HuffPo, Move On et al are missing their village idiot.
 

New Threads

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
49,531
Messages
610,692
Members
75,032
Latest member
BLACKROCK6
Back
Top