nontechguy
New member
It's not illegal to carry in a bank in VA, unless it's posted.
I know some of you are going to bash me
- Thread starter itsb
- Start date
It's not illegal to carry in a bank in VA, unless it's posted.
bob steadman
New member
ccw
Valid point made!
Valid point made!
Generally, the gun buster signs at businesses don't carry much weight here. If they ask you to leave due to carrying a gun and you don't, then is when the trouble starts. There are places that it is illegal under the current laws, those places I do not carry. The other places depends if I am open or concealed carrying, as you have ready many times in here, concealed is concealed. Now, don't start bashing me about "business rights, respect of the business owner, etc etc etc". I have that respect. BUT.....I have more respect for my and my family's safety. I do try to avoid stores with gun buster signs when possible, but sometimes I don't have the choice.
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Bikenut
Guest
Someone is twisting your arm and forcing you and/or your family to be in a place that has the private property right to ban guns?
Or are you trying to convince yourself that shopping elsewhere is so inconvenient that you just "don't have a choice"?
So what was that you said about having respect for the private property rights of the property owner? Did it have something to do with "concealed means concealed and that really means if no one knows then I can get away with it using the excuse that I'm protecting my family to soothe my conscience"? But then... you and your personal ethics know.............
Sorry... I'm not buying it. But then.. I guess if you can look yourself in the eye in the mirror in the morning.....................
Here's a thought... how about having an intelligent conversation using actual crime facts and statistics with the store owner(s) in an effort to change their minds? Ahhh but... just sneaking the "concealed means concealed" gun in is soooo much easier.
Y'all do know that the anti gunners just love to see us gun owners/gun carriers demanding the right to bear arms be respected while hypocritically talking about "concealed means concealed" justifies disrespecting the private property owner's right to ban guns.
I live in a small town. If I need a part to repair or replace something that I use daily in my life, I have to get it. Today. If the owner of the hardware store bans guns in his store, I still have no other alternative than to purchase from him.... or drive 110 miles to a larger city.
To carry or not to carry... either way I have to get the part, so I have to deal with the dummy.
I don't carry in there, but I sure don't go there unless I have to.
What size city do you live in Bikenut?
Edit: The reason for this post is to put the point across that sometimes a guy's gotta do what he doesn't like to do.
To carry or not to carry... either way I have to get the part, so I have to deal with the dummy.
I don't carry in there, but I sure don't go there unless I have to.
What size city do you live in Bikenut?
Edit: The reason for this post is to put the point across that sometimes a guy's gotta do what he doesn't like to do.
Warrior1256
New member
Same here in Kentucky so I just ignore the signs too.
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Bikenut
Guest
Yep.. a guy's gotta do what he has gotta do... so I don't carry where it is illegal to do so... but I don't gotta disrespect the private property business owner by sneaking in a gun just because his business is convenient either.
I was told my gun was not welcome at a local Taco Bell more than 3 years ago. That Taco Bell is 10 miles from my home. Now I love Taco Bell food and eat at Taco Bell 2 or more times a week but for 3 years I have been driving 20 miles one way to the next nearest Taco Bell.
So how does 20 extra miles (an extra 10 miles each way) twice a week for 3 years compare to 110 miles once in a while for a part?
I don't expect everyone to live their lives according to my standards and folks can do what they will... but by golly... I get so damn tired of hearing folks try to soothe their conscience by spouting that "concealed means concealed" crap to justify their actions.
And I am sick of seeing it spouted on the internet because it only proves to the anti's that many gun owners who demand their right to bear arms be respected are hypocrites when it comes to the rights, private property rights in this case, of other people.
People please... if you are going to disrespect the property rights of others by sneaking in a gun where it isn't wanted... at least don't hand the anti's more ammo by spouting that "concealed means concealed so if no one knows I'm sneaking in a gun where it is convenient for me to shop I can get away with it because I care more about my, and my families, safety" hogwash.
Y'all do what you want because it isn't me you have to face in the mirror every morning... it is YOU you have to live with.
Are You Prepared
New member
Personally, again I say: PERSONALLY, I don't give a **** if a sign says: "No Firearms Allowed". The business owners can't, won't and aren't going to protect me, my family, and loved ones from a wacko that comes to commit a mass destruction/murder, so I will.
It is called "concealed" carry, that means hidden from view. So, if it's hidden from view, then what is the worry? Just because it says you can't bring a weapon in, isn't going to deter me from doing so, especially in the wake of the public atrocities that have been happening at an increasing and alarming rate!
Public domains, like movie theaters, restaurants, etc. only exist because "we" (the public) support and patronize such establishments. If the whining owners of "gun free safe zone" establishments find that we are carrying concealed and want us to leave, then they will lose my business and the business within my circle forever.
The RIGHT of the PEOPLE to KEEP (own) and BEAR (carry) ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED
I WILL NOT BE DEFENSELESS NO MATTER WHAT AND NO MATTER WHERE. . .PERIOD!!!
It is called "concealed" carry, that means hidden from view. So, if it's hidden from view, then what is the worry? Just because it says you can't bring a weapon in, isn't going to deter me from doing so, especially in the wake of the public atrocities that have been happening at an increasing and alarming rate!
Public domains, like movie theaters, restaurants, etc. only exist because "we" (the public) support and patronize such establishments. If the whining owners of "gun free safe zone" establishments find that we are carrying concealed and want us to leave, then they will lose my business and the business within my circle forever.
The RIGHT of the PEOPLE to KEEP (own) and BEAR (carry) ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED
I WILL NOT BE DEFENSELESS NO MATTER WHAT AND NO MATTER WHERE. . .PERIOD!!!
Firefighterchen
OC for Tactical Advantage
Anti freedom ... that's all I'm seeing here. The worst part about being a true constitutionalist, a true fighter for freedom, is that we do not try and control others, even if others try to control us. We do not try and disrespect each other, even if others disrespect us. Those that feel private property owners rights mean nothing, have no foundation to say their 2A means anything. Take one, take them all.
Every time you disrespect a private property owners rights, you disrespect all rights, including the 2A.
Every time you disrespect a private property owners rights, you disrespect all rights, including the 2A.
Depends on the state law if the sign carries any weight. In my state the sign has to meet the letter of the law requirements and if they find you are carrying concealed all they have the right to do is ask you to leave. Nothing to do with private property rights. If a business is open to the public they must follow the law. The law gives them the right to post a sign that meets legal requirements stating they don't allow guns on their property. If the sign does not meet the requirements it means nothing. Now if I want to carry a concealed weapon on my person I have that right even if they have a sign that is legal. If they think I have a concealed weapon the only right they have is to ask me to leave. Same as shirt and shoes signs, they ask you to leave if you don't then you are trespassing, just like with the concealed weapon. Has nothing to do with anyone's constitional property rights. I know some of you try to live life like everything is black and white but it ain't.
@ Bikenut: (Quote)Yep.. a guy's gotta do what he has gotta do... so I don't carry where it is illegal to do so... but I don't gotta disrespect the private property business owner by sneaking in a gun just because his business is convenient either.
I was told my gun was not welcome at a local Taco Bell more than 3 years ago. That Taco Bell is 10 miles from my home. Now I love Taco Bell food and eat at Taco Bell 2 or more times a week but for 3 years I have been driving 20 miles one way to the next nearest Taco Bell.
So how does 20 extra miles (an extra 10 miles each way) twice a week for 3 years compare to 110 miles once in a while for a part? Y'all do what you want because it isn't me you have to face in the mirror every morning... it is YOU you have to live with. (Quote)
First thing, you should understand what I wrote... I wrote, "I don't carry there..." So that means that I don't disrespect his rights either.
Second thing, as far as you spending that much on gas for a taco... I may think that's stupid... but for me to spend that much gas to pick up a set screw to keep my wood-turning tools in working order would truly be stupid... and I'm not stupid.
Third thing... The only thing that bothers me when I look at myself in the mirror in the morning is the fact that I might have to use my shaky hands to trim my beard again soon, because it costs too much to get a barber to do it.
I was told my gun was not welcome at a local Taco Bell more than 3 years ago. That Taco Bell is 10 miles from my home. Now I love Taco Bell food and eat at Taco Bell 2 or more times a week but for 3 years I have been driving 20 miles one way to the next nearest Taco Bell.
So how does 20 extra miles (an extra 10 miles each way) twice a week for 3 years compare to 110 miles once in a while for a part? Y'all do what you want because it isn't me you have to face in the mirror every morning... it is YOU you have to live with. (Quote)
First thing, you should understand what I wrote... I wrote, "I don't carry there..." So that means that I don't disrespect his rights either.
Second thing, as far as you spending that much on gas for a taco... I may think that's stupid... but for me to spend that much gas to pick up a set screw to keep my wood-turning tools in working order would truly be stupid... and I'm not stupid.
Third thing... The only thing that bothers me when I look at myself in the mirror in the morning is the fact that I might have to use my shaky hands to trim my beard again soon, because it costs too much to get a barber to do it.
What right is more important? A property owners right? Or my individual right to carry a weapon concealed that is approved by the federal and state laws? If a property owners property is open to the public his rights no longer take precedence over my second adm. Rights. Just like a store owner can't decide not to let a black person come into their store.
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Bikenut
Guest
Edited to add:
Help me understand the part I put in bold. Are you saying that you might think those who put action to their beliefs and actually live their beliefs "may be stupid"... but you aren't "stupid"?
And when all the gun owners who support businesses that ban guns discover those business owners used their profits to open even more businesses that ban guns............ who was "stupid"?
Like I said before....
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Bikenut
Guest
Incorrect... there are laws that infringe upon the private property owner's right to refuse entry to anyone that makes it illegal to refuse entry to a black person. You know.. just like there are laws that infringe upon the right to bear arms.
And if a property owners property being open to the public means his rights no longer take precedence over the right to bear arms............ why is it when the property owner has a "no guns" policy the property owner, or his representative (like a manager), can throw someone out if they bring in a gun?
Bottom line... opening a privately owned property to the public does NOT mean the public has some kind of right to be there! Opening a private property to the public is nothing more than inviting people in (just like a homeowner invites people in except for a business it is a blanket invitation to the public at large) and... just like any property owner, including a homeowner, that invitation can be revoked at any time for anyone who disobeys the owner's rules.
Here is the rub, I have the right to carry a concealed weapon, you as the property owner don't have the right to search me if I come on your property with a concealed weapon on my person. I am not breaking any laws carrying my concealed weapon on your property. Yes you can ask me to leave your property and I then must leave or I am then breaking the law by trespassing on your property. But since you don't know I am carrying a concealed weapon you won't know to ask me to leave. If you "think" that by you carrying concealed on some business property that puts up a sign that has no legal force then don't go there but don't try and pump yourself up as being all about property rights because that's BS. JMHO
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Bikenut
Guest
There is a flaw in that reasoning....
YOU know the property owner has the right to ban guns on his property. And while the property owner may not know you are sneaking a gun into/onto his property against his rightful wishes... YOU know you are sneaking the gun in.
Now don't go telling me that just because no one knows then it is Ok because someone does know.... YOU KNOW you are disrespecting someone else's rights using the excuse that your rights trump his rights as long as no one knows you are disrespecting his rights.
Now if you are Ok with demanding your right to bear arms be respected while actively disrespecting the right of the property owner to ban the bearing of arms on/in his property ... well...
I'll say it again....
Edited to add:
How can a person expect the anti gun factions to take them seriously when they demand their right to bear arms be respected while disrespecting another person's property right to make rules that ban the bearing of arms on/in the property?
I think your reasoning is way off the mark. The property owner does not have the right to ban you from carrying a concealed weapon on their property!! Based on your logic if they put up a sign requiring everyone to wear under wear and you did not even though they did not know it, some how you are going against private property rights? You do know it is also not agains't the law to not wear under wear under your clothing right! Just like in my state it is not against the law to carry a concealed weapon on private property, like a store with a sign stating no weapons allowed.
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Bikenut
Guest
Hmmm... I'm talking about having the integrity to respect the rights of others.
Since a property owner can ban folks who don't wear shoes or shirts (no shoes, no shirt, no service) I'm quite sure he could also ban not wearing underwear too... but it would be problematical proving who isn't wearing underwear. Just as it is problematical to prove who is sneaking a concealed gun into a business with a no guns rule. But even if it is difficult for the store owner to prove it is happening he still has the right to have a "no underwear, no service" rule.
But then even if the store owner can't prove it... the person without underwear, just like the person sneaking in a gun, still knows they are disrespecting the property owner's right to make the rule.
Like it or not... the private property owner has the right to make any rule or policy he wishes (unless there is a law restricting (infringing) what rules/policies he can legally make)... he can decree that the 2nd Amendment right to bear arms is null and void on/in his property because the 2nd Amendment only binds the government... not the private citizen who has the right to make whatever rules he wants on/in his own property so the private property owner most certainly DOES have the right to ban carrying a gun, concealed or not, on and/or in his property. The ban is his right... the trespass laws put the penalty of law behind his right to ban.
Now kindly tell me... if the property owner does not have the right to ban concealed carry on/in his property exactly what would happen if a person were to carry a concealed gun into a store that had a "no guns" rule and the person told the property owner/manager he is carrying and the property owner/manager does not have the right to stop them from carrying a concealed gun in the store? After all... if, as you say, the property owner cannot ban carrying a concealed gun in his store then you have every right to do it and the property owner cannot throw you out for carrying a concealed gun.... right?
The thing that I think you may be missing is that as far as private property rights are concerned there isn't any difference between your own house and a business about making rules as conditions for allowing people on/in a property... ... with the exception that businesses do have a few laws concerning what are called "protected classes" of people that cannot be discriminated against.. but concealed carriers ARE NOT one of those "protected classes".
Oh... and "open to the public" does NOT mean "public property". "Open to the public" means the public is invited (allowed) into/onto private property and that the invitation is contingent upon the public abiding by the rules of the property owner. Disobey the rules and the property owner has the right to revoke that invitation (disallow) and throw that person out of/off of the property. It is when the person refuses to leave that the law gets involved and the trespass laws merely put legal teeth into......... the private property right to throw out anyone who disobeys the private property owner's rules.
And the thing you might be missing is that I'm talking about having the personal integrity to respect the property owner's right to ban guns and not sneak one in just because "concealed means concealed so if no one knows I'm sneaking in a gun and disrespecting the rights of others is OK because no one knows". But then... YOU know you are sneaking in a gun.
It's easy to be honorable when everyone is watching but the truly honorable person still does the honorable thing even when no one but himself is watching.
Your wrong totally. The owner has no "right" to tell me or make me do anything other then the right to tell me to get off his property if he doesn't like something I am doing, period. If the owner does not respect my 2nd adm rights then I could give a crap about what his "wants are". By carrying a concealed hand gun in his business I am operating within the law and not breaking any laws period. I think that is what you don't seem to understand. The law of this land has the power over the property owners right to Prevent me from carrying a concealed weapon on his property period!
