I know some of you are going to bash me

[r1derbike]

when I took my ccw I was against it because I felt that it was against the 2nd adm.

This is where I quit reading the post. Any relevance or thoughtful commentary I missed.

 

[wolf_fire]

I will only ignore a "gun-free zone" if it does not hold the weight of law. If for some reason the owners of the establishment should find out about it (they shouldn't if you I'm carrying correctly) then I will leave when asked. They can do no more than that.

However, in a "gun-free zone" that is illegal, such as federal buildings, court houses, etc., I will not carry. I don't like that, but I am also a law-abiding gun carrier. When we decide to ignore the law, we are no better than the criminals that we profess to protect ourselves from.

 

[Bikenut]

Your wrong totally. The owner has no "right" to tell me or make me do anything other then the right to tell me to get off his property if he doesn't like something I am doing, period. If the owner does not respect my 2nd adm rights then I could give a crap about what his "wants are". By carrying a concealed hand gun in his business I am operating within the law and not breaking any laws period. I think that is what you don't seem to understand. The law of this land has the power over the property owners right to Prevent me from carrying a concealed weapon on his property period!

The part of your post I put in bold tells me you do understand that the property owner has the right to ban guns because if he doesn't like what you are doing, you know... like carrying guns on his property, he can TELL you to leave... not ask but TELL... as in REQUIRE. Failure to obey his requirement for you to leave because you are doing something he doesn't like, you know... like carrying a gun, then the law will stand behind the property owner's right to... require you to leave because you are doing something he doesn't like.

After all.... if the property owner has the right to kick you out because you are doing something he doesn't like then he has the right to.... tell you not to do what he doesn't like. And if he doesn't like people to carry guns on/in his property he has the right to make that rule .. and enlist the aid of the law to enforce his right to make that rule.

Criminals knowingly try to get away with doing things that are illegal because they have no respect for the law and the only thing that stops them from doing it is getting caught... while sneaking a concealed gun into a business/property that bans guns itself might not specifically be illegal the person knowingly doing the sneaking has no respect for the right of the property owner and is trying to get away with disrespecting the owner's rights and justifying it by saying it's Ok as long as they don't........ get caught.

Again...

It's easy to be honorable when everyone is watching but the truly honorable person still does the honorable thing even when no one but himself is watching.

Let me rewrite that a little...

It's easy to be honorable when everyone is watching or when doing something dishonorable is against the law but the truly honorable person still does the honorable thing even when there aren't any laws that require it and, perhaps especially, when he knows no one else is watching except himself.

How can a person expect the anti gun factions to take them seriously when they demand their right to bear arms be respected while disrespecting another person's property right to make rules that ban the bearing of arms on/in the property?

 

[Firefighterchen]

Why doesn't a private property owner have the right to search anyone coming into their property? I know: Airports do. Schools do. Grocery stores do.

I have the right to search anyone I want on my property because the 4th amendment tells the government what they can not do, not what I can do. If they refuse the search they must leave, gun or not.

Gun ranges can make rules not allowing certain calibers, suppressors, or fully automatic firearms...but isn't that infringing the 2a? Nope, not unless it's a public range ran by the government.

What about the first amendment? Do you have the right to go into any private property and say whatever you want? Can I go into a Christian church and start making jokes about Jesus, and they can't do anything because of the 1st amendment?

The constitution tells the government what they can not do, not what people can do. It doesn't say I can carry a firearm, it says the government can't stop me from doing so without due process.

 

[Bikenut]

About that search thing.... many stadiums reserve the right to search in order to make sure people aren't sneaking in any drinks/eats during a game in order to maximize the amount of sales of eats/drinks that the stadium sells...

 

[Pitbull11]

I will only ignore a "gun-free zone" if it does not hold the weight of law. If for some reason the owners of the establishment should find out about it (they shouldn't if you I'm carrying correctly) then I will leave when asked. They can do no more than that.

However, in a "gun-free zone" that is illegal, such as federal buildings, court houses, etc., I will not carry. I don't like that, but I am also a law-abiding gun carrier. When we decide to ignore the law, we are no better than the criminals that we profess to protect ourselves from.

Could not say it any better.

 

[UATKP]

Edited to add:
Help me understand the part I put in bold. Are you saying that you might think those who put action to their beliefs and actually live their beliefs "may be stupid"... but you aren't "stupid"?

And when all the gun owners who support businesses that ban guns discover those business owners used their profits to open even more businesses that ban guns............ who was "stupid"?

Like I said before....

It appears you want to pick a fight, by reading into, instead of out of, what others have said. I said that If you drive all that distance for a taco, that I might believe that to be stupid (meaning it is a hell of a waste of gas, but then I don't know how much you value a taco... that's why I said, "might".)... and I added that if I drove 110 miles one way to get a set screw for a woodturning tool that I would be stupid. And then I said, "And I'm not stupid." Meaning that I don't waste 220 miles worth of fuel to get 29 cent set screw, when I can buy it 3 blocks from my shop.

Now. Go try to pick a fight somewhere else... and try to sell your "holier than thou" drivel somewhere else, also. I'm not buying. If you had just said in your first post, something like, "I believe that the honorable thing to do is to respect the property owner's right to ban firearms on his property..." and let it go at that, I might have bought into it. But you try to pick apart everything that another says, just to posture your "holier than thou" attitude, like you want us to praise you for your "honorable" ways...
Pee on you. Pick a fight somewhere else. I'm not buying your "honor".

 

[Pitbull11]

Why doesn't a private property owner have the right to search anyone coming into their property? I know: Airports do. Schools do. Grocery stores do.

I have the right to search anyone I want on my property because the 4th amendment tells the government what they can not do, not what I can do. If they refuse the search they must .

I like that . The store won't have any customers and you won't have any guests. Plus you can't search anyone without their permission, if you did you/ they would be sued for every $$ you/have.

 

[Pitbull11]

The part of your post I put in bold tells me you do understand that the property owner has the right to ban guns because if he doesn't like what you are doing, you know... like carrying guns on his property, he can TELL you to leave... not ask but TELL... as in REQUIRE. Failure to obey his requirement for you to leave because you are doing something he doesn't like, you know... like carrying a gun, then the law will stand behind the property owner's right to... require you to leave because you are doing something he doesn't like.

After all.... if the property owner has the right to kick you out because you are doing something he doesn't like then he has the right to.... tell you not to do what he doesn't like. And if he doesn't like people to carry guns on/in his property he has the right to make that rule .. and enlist the aid of the law to enforce his right to make that rule.

Criminals knowingly try to get away with doing things that are illegal because they have no respect for the law and the only thing that stops them from doing it is getting caught... while sneaking a concealed gun into a business/property that bans guns itself might not specifically be illegal the person knowingly doing the sneaking has no respect for the right of the property owner and is trying to get away with disrespecting the owner's rights and justifying it by saying it's Ok as long as they don't........ get caught.

Again...



Let me rewrite that a little...

It's easy to be honorable when everyone is watching or when doing something dishonorable is against the law but the truly honorable person still does the honorable thing even when there aren't any laws that require it and, perhaps especially, when he knows no one else is watching except himself.

Lets get real world. The store owner knows that he does not have the weight of the law behind him to stop a legal concealed carry customer from coming into his store and I am sure he does not care about that person carrying concealed in his store. But to make other customers at ease the sign will deter open carry that might alarm some customers. Most business is in business to make money, helps to have customers in the store buying stuff. I can't remember who posted about being kicked out of a Taco Bell for carrying and now they drive forever to eat that crap that will stop their heart. If that person knew how to carry concealed never would of been a issue and he could still be eating that $hit at the local Taco Bell. You also keep trying to make yourself sound like you are the honorable person, which is fine you are following your own ideals. But it does not make someone that disagrees with you any less honorable when they follow their ideals.

 

[Bikenut]

It appears you want to pick a fight, by reading into, instead of out of, what others have said. I said that If you drive all that distance for a taco, that I might believe that to be stupid (meaning it is a hell of a waste of gas, but then I don't know how much you value a taco... that's why I said, "might".)... and I added that if I drove 110 miles one way to get a set screw for a woodturning tool that I would be stupid. And then I said, "And I'm not stupid." Meaning that I don't waste 220 miles worth of fuel to get 29 cent set screw, when I can buy it 3 blocks from my shop.

Now. Go try to pick a fight somewhere else... and try to sell your "holier than thou" drivel somewhere else, also. I'm not buying. If you had just said in your first post, something like, "I believe that the honorable thing to do is to respect the property owner's right to ban firearms on his property..." and let it go at that, I might have bought into it. But you try to pick apart everything that another says, just to posture your "holier than thou" attitude, like you want us to praise you for your "honorable" ways...
Pee on you. Pick a fight somewhere else. I'm not buying your "honor".

And who is picking apart what another says right now? Pot.. meet kettle.

And I'm not buying your excuse that convenience justifies not doing the honorable thing.

And if you don't want to discuss the concept of not supporting a business that works against the things you believe in then all that is necessary is to... stop answering my posts.

Oh... and as far as buying my "honor".... once again...

Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
-snip-
Y'all do what you want because it isn't me you have to face in the mirror every morning... it is YOU you have to live with.

Have a nice day.

 

[Bikenut]

Lets get real world. The store owner knows that he does not have the weight of the law behind him to stop a legal concealed carry customer from coming into his store and I am sure he does not care about that person carrying concealed in his store. But to make other customers at ease the sign will deter open carry that might alarm some customers. Most business is in business to make money, helps to have customers in the store buying stuff. I can't remember who posted about being kicked out of a Taco Bell for carrying and now they drive forever to eat that crap that will stop their heart. If that person knew how to carry concealed never would of been a issue and he could still be eating that $hit at the local Taco Bell. You also keep trying to make yourself sound like you are the honorable person, which is fine you are following your own ideals. But it does not make someone that disagrees with you any less honorable when they follow their ideals.

I posted that I was told my legally carried sidearm was not wanted in a local Taco Bell and because I won't patronize a business that doesn't allow me to carry my gun in/on the property I drive much further to have a taco.

But nice try using the leftist Saul Alinsky tactic of demeaning my being willing to stand up for my beliefs with an attempt to use ridicule ....

I can't remember who posted about being kicked out of a Taco Bell for carrying and now they drive forever to eat that crap that will stop their heart. If that person knew how to carry concealed never would of been a issue and he could still be eating that $hit at the local Taco Bell.

You do know who Saul Alinsky is and what his teachings are?

Saul Alinsky's Rules for Radicals

Rules for Radicals

By Saul Alinsky - 1971

-snip-
7. Tactics
-snip-
5. "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon. It is almost impossible to counteract ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, which then reacts to your advantage."

Now about that bit you said...

If that person knew how to carry concealed never would of been a issue and he could still be eating that $hit at the local Taco Bell.

Are you implying that if I had just been willing to sneak my gun in concealed and that if no one knew I could just get away with it? If the property owner didn't have the weight of law behind his right to ban guns why would I have to sneak it in?

You also keep trying to make yourself sound like you are the honorable person, which is fine you are following your own ideals. But it does not make someone that disagrees with you any less honorable when they follow their ideals.

I'm not trying to make myself sound like an honorable person but I appreciate you thinking I might be because I'm willing to stand up for my beliefs and drive the extra miles to eat tacos. But in regards to someone disagreeing with my standards ..... what part of this little tidbit I posted long ago do you not understand????

Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
-snip-
Y'all do what you want because it isn't me you have to face in the mirror every morning... it is YOU you have to live with.

Perhaps your argument concerning the honorable thing isn't with me but is with that guy you look at in the mirror.

 

[Firefighterchen]

Why doesn't a private property owner have the right to search anyone coming into their property? I know: Airports do. Schools do. Grocery stores do.

I have the right to search anyone I want on my property because the 4th amendment tells the government what they can not do, not what I can do. If they refuse the search they must .

I like that . The store won't have any customers and you won't have any guests. Plus you can't search anyone without their permission, if you did you/ they would be sued for every $$ you/have.

Well I can tell you I have worked at the grocery store, and I have searched people. Never been sued and the grocery store is planning on opening 150 New stores by 2020. So while you may have your opinion, it's wrong.

Just like your assumption on how many guests I have, wrong again.

I do have a question for you though, a person can be honorable if they are following their ideals? So do you feel Islamic suicide bombing terrorists or Nazis are honorable? What about a guy who feels the population is out of control, and decided it's best if elementary school children die, so he follows his ideals, he is honorable?

 

[Bikenut]

-snip-
Now. Go try to pick a fight somewhere else... and try to sell your "holier than thou" drivel somewhere else, also. I'm not buying. If you had just said in your first post, something like, "I believe that the honorable thing to do is to respect the property owner's right to ban firearms on his property..." and let it go at that, I might have bought into it. But you try to pick apart everything that another says, just to posture your "holier than thou" attitude, like you want us to praise you for your "honorable" ways...
Pee on you. Pick a fight somewhere else. I'm not buying your "honor".

Hmmm... well... if...

It's easy to be honorable when everyone is watching or when doing something dishonorable is against the law but the truly honorable person still does the honorable thing even when there aren't any laws that require it and, perhaps especially, when he knows no one else is watching except himself.

seems "holier than thou" and offends you then so be it.

Editied for clarity.

 

[Pitbull11]

Well I can tell you I have worked at the grocery store, and I have searched people. Never been sued and the grocery store is planning on opening 150 New stores by 2020. So while you may have your opinion, it's wrong.

Just like your assumption on how many guests I have, wrong again.

I do have a question for you though, a person can be honorable if they are following their ideals? So do you feel Islamic suicide bombing terrorists or Nazis are honorable? What about a guy who feels the population is out of control, and decided it's best if elementary school children die, so he follows his ideals, he is honorable?

You and bike nut are way out there. I was a LEO, as a employee in a grocery store you have no right to search anyone period!! Matter of fact if I was walking around your grocery store and you walked up to me and tried to search me, that would be considered a physical assault and I would knock you the "F" out and then call the police and have you arrested. I would then sue your employer and I would win in court. How if you as an employee of the store see someone steal something you could have your security officer detain them and call the police. When the police arrived they could then search them. But if when the police arrive and their is no evidence of thief you again will get your butt sued. You talk about Islamics and blowing themselves and others up as not being honorable, where do you come up with this $hit?? Of course they think they are doing the honorable thing or they would not kill themselves for their beliefs. You really don't get that? Yes it is wrong minded but that is what right wing and left wing nut cases do. They can't see any grey areas just black and white and what they believe is right and honorable and what someone else might think that is different then them is wrong and dishonorable. (Like wow, how can you look yourself in the mirror when you follow the law but don't think like me)

 

[Beau]

so go ahead,when I took my ccw I was against it because I felt that it was against the 2nd adm.,but I went ahead and took it,my instructer was a very strict and very serous about his job and was very GOOD,in my opp.you could not find a better instuctor.He spent a lot of time on law,shooting,handling and other stuff of importance.We went over on the time by an hour or so,no problem he was very intersing,very pacient with people that had little to no exp.with guns,the one thing that he did stress that I have always belived in is that it is up to you to protect yourself and yours.NOW REMEMBER he taugh us where it is illegel to carry,BUT he also liked to make it clear that was why it is called CONCEALED CARRY!so when someone wants to know if it is ok to take a gun here or there I say that is why they call it conceal carry!!!NOW if you go by that as with the rest of your actions in life you have to be RESPONSABLE FOR YOUR ACTIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!now thats all I got to say about that

Edited for reading comp fail.

 

[Firefighterchen]

Well I can tell you I have worked at the grocery store, and I have searched people. Never been sued and the grocery store is planning on opening 150 New stores by 2020. So while you may have your opinion, it's wrong.

Just like your assumption on how many guests I have, wrong again.

I do have a question for you though, a person can be honorable if they are following their ideals? So do you feel Islamic suicide bombing terrorists or Nazis are honorable? What about a guy who feels the population is out of control, and decided it's best if elementary school children die, so he follows his ideals, he is honorable?

You and bike nut are way out there. I was a LEO, as a employee in a grocery store you have no right to search anyone period!! Matter of fact if I was walking around your grocery store and you walked up to me and tried to search me, that would be considered a physical assault and I would knock you the "F" out and then call the police and have you arrested. I would then sue your employer and I would win in court. How if you as an employee of the store see someone steal something you could have your security officer detain them and call the police. When the police arrived they could then search them. But if when the police arrive and their is no evidence of thief you again will get your butt sued. You talk about Islamics and blowing themselves and others up as not being honorable, where do you come up with this $hit?? Of course they think they are doing the honorable thing or they would not kill themselves for their beliefs. You really don't get that? Yes it is wrong minded but that is what right wing and left wing nut cases do. They can't see any grey areas just black and white and what they believe is right and honorable and what someone else might think that is different then them is wrong and dishonorable. (Like wow, how can you look yourself in the mirror when you follow the law but don't think like me)

Wrong again. What you just said, searches being "illegal, physical assault, suing, what not," happens every day in the grocery store. Guess what? They have not been sued or charged with physical assault, so where you get that idea I have no idea because it couldn't be personal experience.

Nice online threat, it was pretty intimidating I must say. Makes me wonder why you "were" an officer...is your last name Harless?

Yes Islamic's blowing themselves up trying to kill as many women and children as possible holds absolutely no honor despite any sick and twisted way of defending it that you wish to try. Honor goes beyond ideals.

 

[Pitbull11]

Wrong again. What you just said, searches being "illegal, physical assault, suing, what not," happens every day in the grocery store. Guess what? They have not been sued or charged with physical assault, so where you get that idea I have no idea because it couldn't be personal experience.

Nice online threat, it was pretty intimidating I must say. Makes me wonder why you "were" an officer...is your last name Harless?

Yes Islamic's blowing themselves up trying to kill as many women and children as possible holds absolutely no honor despite any sick and twisted way of defending it that you wish to try. Honor goes beyond ideals.

Very strange response, maybe you live in Russia, where the laws are different?

 

[Firefighterchen]

Very strange response, maybe you live in Russia, where the laws are different?

Link Removed

Nope. Wrong again. Wanna try again?

 

[itsb]

Why would anyone bash you for taking a class and liking it? I think everyone should seek additional training. We can always learn something new along the way. I just don't think there should be any required training for ownership and carry.

???? not talking about taking a class and liking it!!!!!!

 

[Beau]

???? not talking about taking a class and liking it!!!!!!

Reading comp fail on my part.