Open carry confrontations

[NavyLCDR]

Well, you know what they say about opinions.

The real difference here is when, after the court of public opinion convicts OC'ers being guilty of brandishing their rights holstered on their hip like an ersatz phallus to the affront of society and we all lose the right to carry any way at all.

You mean like in Oklahoma? Oh, wait, the court of public opinion legalized open carry there...

 

[Bikenut]

It's not trespass unless I am caught carrying, he asks me to leave and I refuse. Just by carrying into his business with a sign does not mean I'm breaking the law. It's the refusal to leave after asked. So I can legally carry into a business with signs. That's my RIGHT, not opinion to carry within said business. It is my opinion that I have no respect for those who do not honor my rights.
Bit of a difference there.

So are you saying that it is perfectly Ok for you to not honor someone else's rights as long as you don't get caught?

C'mon Dude... you aren't fooling anyone with your mental masturbatory attempts to justify your own selfish desire to do exactly as you damn well please regardless of the rights of others.

What I find amazingly hypocritical is for anyone to demand their right to bear arms be respected while disrespecting the private property rights of others.

Originally Posted by fullyarmedcitizen View Post
If you don't feel it is your duty to bear arms at all times except when forbidden by the law, then why do you carry a weapon? I'm not out there or here to disrespect anyone. Simply stated, if there is no law behind a business owner telling me I cannot bear arms in his place of business, then I don't feel my duty as a citizen should be up for debate at the wishes of a person who wishes to deprive me of my duty. I have no respect for anyone who does not respect the rights of theirs countries citizens. My opinion.

So you have the opinion that you have no respect for others who do not respect your rights? Correct? Well... let me ask... is it equally valid for the property owner to have no respect for you because you do not respect his rights?

Oh... and since you have absolutely NO RIGHT to be on/in the private property of others exactly how is it you think you have the right to carry a gun there? Unless you are the owner or his designated representative you don't even have a right to be there in the first place.

And... No... you do NOT have a right to shop at a store/frequent a business.. what you have is the owner's permission to conduct business with him on/in his property contingent upon your obeying any rules set forth as a condition of having that permission. Disobey the rules and the permission is revoked.. and your disrespectful gun carrying person is required, and while that requirement might be expressed as a polite request it is still... under force of trespass law... a REQUIREMENT to leave.

By the way... in some States a sign does have the force of law...

Link Removed

Texas Penal Code - Section 30.06. Trespass By Holder Of License To Carry Concealed Handgun

§ 30.06. TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY CONCEALED
HANDGUN.
(a) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder:
(1) carries a handgun under the authority of
Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another
without effective consent; and
(2) received notice that:
(A) entry on the property by a license holder
with a concealed handgun was forbidden;
-snip-
3) "Written communication" means:
-snip-
(B) a sign posted on the property that:
(i) includes the language described by
Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish;
(ii) appears in contrasting colors with
block letters at least one inch in height; and
(iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner
clearly visible to the public.
-snip-
Texas' law can be read in it's entirety here:

Link Removed

 

[Bikenut]

Well, you know what they say about opinions.

The real difference here is when, after the court of public opinion convicts OC'ers being guilty of brandishing their rights holstered on their hip like an ersatz phallus to the affront of society and we all lose the right to carry any way at all.

By golly... I am affronted by your "brandishing" your right to free speech like an ersatz phallus by posting on this forum.

Perhaps if you would simply "conceal" your right to free speech then no one would be affronted and there wouldn't be any danger of losing it in the court of public opinion?

end sarcasm

 

[kwimby]

By golly... I am affronted by your "brandishing" your right to free speech like an ersatz phallus by posting on this forum.

Perhaps if you would simply "conceal" your right to free speech then no one would be affronted and there wouldn't be any danger of losing it in the court of public opinion?

end sarcasm

Lame analogy, but nice try. Maybe if you typed strapped it'll come across a little manlier. :sarcastic:

(that's the sarcasm smilie, BTW)

 

[Firefighterchen]

Most people are smart enough to use smilies and just click the "like" button.

LOL is soooo 90's, dude. As are your viewpoints on open carry and other troglodyte mannerisms.

LOL ROFLMAOZEDONG GG

No need to say anything further as it seems I have a nice group of members here defending me I must of done something right...considering how much everyone dislikes you, and how fast everyone disliked fullyarmed. Good times.

Bikenut, I'm enjoying how much your plowing FullyArmed into the ground. Keep up the good work.

And in case kwimby didn't notice, I did "like" some posts, so now many he can go masturbate in peace in his lonely basement.

 

[kwimby]

Wow, the asian dude knows how to use fonts! Impressive!

Looks like the Napoleon complex is still alive and well. :no:

 

[Bikenut]

Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
By golly... I am affronted by your "brandishing" your right to free speech like an ersatz phallus by posting on this forum.

Perhaps if you would simply "conceal" your right to free speech then no one would be affronted and there wouldn't be any danger of losing it in the court of public opinion?

end sarcasm

Lame analogy, but nice try. Maybe if you typed strapped it'll come across a little manlier. :sarcastic:

(that's the sarcasm smilie, BTW)

What is lame is using Saul Alinsky's old tired tactic of using insults instead of intelligent discourse hoping to "win" by annoying folks... and that silly stuff is so pre Obama as to be irrelevant because just about everyone now knows about it.

And just in case someone reading this doesn't know about it.

Rules for Radicals

By Saul Alinsky - 1971

-snip-
"Obama learned his lesson well. I am proud to see that my father's model for organizing is being applied successfully beyond local community organizing to affect the Democratic campaign in 2008. It is a fine tribute to Saul Alinsky as we approach his 100th birthday." --Letter from L. DAVID ALINSKY, son of Neo-Marxist Saul Alinsky
-snip-

7. Tactics
-snip-
5. "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon. It is almost impossible to counteract ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, which then reacts to your advantage."
-snip-

Entire article can.. and certainly should.. be read here:

Saul Alinsky's Rules for Radicals

So maybe you would like to try again?

 

[Bikenut]

Maybe you should jerk him off a little more so he can like you more. We all know everyone here has walked into a business with a sign that says no guns. I'm just not going to lie about it. And maybe the way I'm justifying it isn't coming through the way I want it. Maybe it is selfish. Maybe it is disrespectful and maybe I don't have any right. But in the end, I'm just too lazy to get back in my car and go somewhere else to shop. Or go back to my car and disarm. And I'm attempting to come up with a means or something to protect myself so I don't look or seem like an *******. I guess it's not working.

Nope.. it's not working.

And it is folks who are too lazy and just too busy to not only respect everyone's rights but also who just sail along living their self centered lives not caring about anything other than their own convenience who not only do nothing to support and fight for rights .. but .. by their own inaction actually help the anti right folks (anti gunners love to see people too lazy to exercise any integrity) take away rights one little bite at a time.

Having said that I will say that you have gained a small measure of respect from me just by manning up and admitting what your real reasons are for disrespecting the rights of others. Now maybe that doesn't mean much to you... and it really shouldn't... but when you look in the mirror knowing the guy looking back was honest with himself ... now THAT should mean a whole lot.

 

[Bikenut]

I pretend I'm praying when others around me pray, I let people in when traffic is heavy, I say please/thank you, yes sir/ma'am, I never kill anything I don't eat, I hold doors for people, I give the nod to strangers I pass by on the street, when someone lets me into traffic I wave thank you. Hell, I even clean the litter box for my wife's cats. I'm not selfish or self centered. In one case, I may be a bit lazy. And that is the not wanting to fight traffic to go to another store just because they have a sign up. I'm no saint. And none of us are. We all have our negative aspects. I tend to hate traffic and wasting time. So I save it by not having to shop elsewhere when everything I need is 10 feet from where I parked.

Ummm... a person who stood firm in his personal beliefs would not feel the need to pretend to pray when other people are praying in order to... "blend in".

Actually, even if you are a helpful and polite person, what you just said could easily be the very definition of being self centered... you know... putting your wants and desires ahead of anything else... like other people's rights.

I am not perfect either but I don't try to BS myself... or anyone else... into believing what I might do is somehow justified just because I want to do it for my own selfish reasons.

 

[Warbirds]

Wow, the asian dude knows how to use fonts! Impressive!

Looks like the Napoleon complex is still alive and well. :no:

Way to bring meaningful information to the conversation.

Pot (you)
Kettle (me)

You're BLACK.....




Homework time you tweener. Then brush your teeth and go to bed.

Your parents aren't managing your behavior so i guess we will have to.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Bikenut]

Pretending to pray to be courteous is self centered how? It's not about standing firm in my beliefs. It's about being courteous. One has to pick when and where to fight. And within a group of people praying, that is to the time or place.

Perhaps I should have been more specific...

Pretending to pray is putting on a front.... but a person who is firm in their own beliefs that did not include praying wouldn't put on a show hoping to blend in and avoid any negative attention. They would have the courage and the integrity to simply stand on their beliefs and not pretend to pray regardless of the opinions of others.

I have to ask... if you don't want to pray but will pretend to pray... what selfish reason (what do you stand to gain or what are you afraid of losing) do you have that makes it advantageous for you to be in a place and time where it is necessary for you to pretend to pray?

But how convenient of you to focus on the praying part while ignoring that you said...

Originally Posted by fullyarmedcitizen View Post
I pretend I'm praying when others around me pray, I let people in when traffic is heavy, I say please/thank you, yes sir/ma'am, I never kill anything I don't eat, I hold doors for people, I give the nod to strangers I pass by on the street, when someone lets me into traffic I wave thank you. Hell, I even clean the litter box for my wife's cats. I'm not selfish or self centered. In one case, I may be a bit lazy. And that is the not wanting to fight traffic to go to another store just because they have a sign up. I'm no saint. And none of us are. We all have our negative aspects. I tend to hate traffic and wasting time. So I save it by not having to shop elsewhere when everything I need is 10 feet from where I parked.

And disrespecting the private property rights of others just so you won't be inconvenienced by traffic.. or have to "waste time"... if you did respect those rights IS selfish and self centered.

You know... self centered in that you will do what is easiest for you in the way YOU want to do it because your rights and your time and your effort are much more important than extending respect for the rights of others.

And trying to convince yourself that being "lazy" excuses being selfishly self centered about not wanting to be "inconvenienced" by other people's rights might work on you but ...

That BS is not working on me.

 

[NYMike]

If you walk into a room with 100 people concealed carrying a gun on your hip, YOU AND ONLY YOU know you're doing everything legally but how are those 100 people supposed to know you're carrying legally or if you're another nut job like that movie theater guy??

Yeah, and?? Maybe we should have "ccw check points" where they randomly stop everyone to check if they are carrying a weapon and if they have a permission slip with them. That's the ticket.

As for your other scenario, please, do tell, who will be chosen first? Please, post some links to stories of said scary bad guys killing all of us open carriers. I'll see you in a few decades when you can muster up all the "evidence" that presently is missing.

Check out these two links

Open Carrier Shot And Killed When Gun Taken By Thug - New Jersey Gun Forums


YouTube

 

[Firefighterchen]

Wow, the asian dude knows how to use fonts! Impressive!

Looks like the Napoleon complex is still alive and well. :no:

LOL Napoleon complex? Do you even know what that is? I don't think you do, good thing there is google for you

Maybe you should jerk him off a little more so he can like you more. We all know everyone here has walked into a business with a sign that says no guns. I'm just not going to lie about it. And maybe the way I'm justifying it isn't coming through the way I want it. Maybe it is selfish. Maybe it is disrespectful and maybe I don't have any right. But in the end, I'm just too lazy to get back in my car and go somewhere else to shop. Or go back to my car and disarm. And I'm attempting to come up with a means or something to protect myself so I don't look or seem like an *******. I guess it's not working.

If you wanna think about men jerking off other men, be my guest...

I have not walked into a business that has a no gun sign up with my firearm on. So, you can be a lazy selfish disrespectful *******. I could tell that right quick, and I have no intention of changing who you want to be.

 

[Firefighterchen]

Check out these two links

Open Carrier Shot And Killed When Gun Taken By Thug - New Jersey Gun Forums


YouTube

First link is the most recent story of a gun grab I have heard, and it is legitimately a civilian open carrying and having his firearm taken. What gets me, is how Tyler failed situational awareness so horribly and is it even legal to open carry in New Jersey?... but so be it. The next questions would be, why didn't he run after he lost possession of the firearm? Why did he chase the person with a firearm? Then there is the big what if, what if he wasn't open carrying? Smith shot and killed another man who was not open carrying as well. Was it the fact he was open carrying that made him a target? Or was Smith and his accomplice just out to cause terror that night?

As for the 2nd video, there is a lot of people who think it was not only staged, but didn't even happen. It has been discussed multiple times on here, but if you want to argue it's validity, we can drag it back from the dead.

But, say these 2 videos are real, 100% truth. Are you saying, it's worse to open carry because 2 out of thousands and thousands of open carriers over the past decade were targeted, and it's better to concealed carry when hundreds of concealed carriers have to defend themselves EVERY DAY because they look unarmed?

 

[eagleks]

America has never been based upon what most people think .... it's been about personal liberty and rights in spite of what anyone else thinks.
>
If the 2a is going to apply to carrying guns, then it applies. It doesn't matter what others think of it, anymore than what they think of someone who walks into their store wearing a burka.
>
I grew up when NO_ONE thought anything about someone open carrying a gun. So, I"ve seen this sway from one end to the other, and now being pushed back the other way again. I think it should be.
>
Whether YOU would do it , or not do it , to me is totally moot ..... the point really is, if someone wants to do it, shouldn't they be able to.
>
Personally, there are situations where I would rather open carry than conceal carry, because of what I'm wearing and what I'm doing. Having worn a gun , both open and concealed, in my job. It always surprised me when people said "you carry a gun" .... as they never noticed it, even though I was around them a lot and was open carrying.
>
If you don't see a reason for it, don't think it's best for you.... great... but who cares ... it's not all about YOU.

 

[Bikenut]

Let me bow down to your perfection. The object of what every man should desire to attain. I'm sure you're not selfish in any way, at any time. And we all know what happens when people do stand firm on their beliefs right? Just look at the post about the woman who simply flicked the bird and opened her mouth at a sign. I don't feel like being crucified every day.

I never said I was perfect... what I've been talking about is personal integrity. If a person disrespects the rights of others because they are lazy, selfish, and self centered is one thing but to attempt to justify that laziness, selfishness, and self centeredness is a valid reason to disrespect the rights of others is quite another.

And yes... we do know what happens when people stand firm on their beliefs... back in the 1700's some folks stood firm and created an entirely new nation where people have the freedom to BS themselves that laziness, selfishness, and self centeredness is a valid reason for disrespecting the rights of others. And yes... they suffered and endured many hardships, including the ultimate sacrifice of giving their life because of their beliefs yet you, and I, now enjoy our freedoms because of their sacrifice.

And those beneath the grass in Arlington, along with their family members, also suffered so that lady? could be disrespectful to their sacrifice for others.

I bear you no ill will fullyarmedcitizen... I suspect if we were to sit down over a cuppa coffee our discussions would result in more agreements than disagreements but I cannot stand silent because I understand how precious rights are... ALL of our rights... and how quickly we are losing the ability to exercise them because people are too lazy to expend any effort and too selfish to respect the rights of others... and what bothers me the most... too self centered to even care.

Now I must ask....

It's amazing they don't say a word about open carry in the academy. I've been the through two, about to go through a third. Air Force police academy, Detroit police academy and soon to be a city of Louisiana police academy. Both the Air Force and Detroit said nothing about open carriers. I had to find out for myself.

Are you in law enforcement? Because, to me, it is disturbing to think that someone who considers it Ok to be too lazy to expend any effort to respect the rights of others has the authority and wields the power of a member of LE.

And please do not fall back on the idea that there isn't any law against disrespecting a property owner's right to have a no guns rule when the trespass laws are the very laws that enforce the right of the property owner to have a no gun rule. And a property owner has just as much right to have a no gun rule as he has to have a "no shoes, no shirt, no service" rule and the trespass laws enforce both.

 

[Farmhood]

Originally Posted by Bikenut
WRONG! You said it.. you stand behind what you said.
I asked...

You said it... You do the research.. you find the links... YOU substantiate your statements with facts.

Failure to do so relegates your statements to unsubstantiated opinion... and... deserving no more credibility than any other opinion... and you do know what is often said about opinions... correct?

I surely hope you do not hide behind the childish tactic of making a statement and then expecting others to do your work for you..... I really do hope you

man up and provide cites and/or links.

But I strongly suspect I'll be listening to the deafening sound of ...

crickets.

I'm not here to prove anything to you. If you are interested, look it up yourself. Maybe if more people practiced reading and researching, they would see I am right. I really don't care what you think of my opinions or weather you think they are fact or not. Were not in a court room here. You can judge me all day. But at the end of the day, I will walk into any business I want, sign or not, armed at all times. Why? Because I can. Because that is my choice to disregard the shop owners wishes. And from his point of view I am not armed. So what's the difference? Like I said from the get go, what they see won't hurt them. If that makes me a disrespectful *******, I say so be it and thank you for your judgement. But again, I really don't care what you think of me so it doesn't matter. Crickets......

No accountability...No respect...No honor
Time to bust a can of spray!

 

[Treo]

Thanks... for a long time we have had a need for a teenage girl to instruct us on current internet forum behavior.

Do your parents know you are on the internet taking to adults?

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

Are you being a smart ass or do you really not get that you're dealing with Shoobee 2.0 ?

 

[Treo]

I’ve posted this before but I don’t open carry much and when I do I'd prefer you just mind your own business. I don’t enjoy having random strangers approach me and I especially don’t care for it when the reason for their approach is to start some discussion about my gun. Matter of fact, if someone approaches me about my OCing; I go from yellow to orange, just a word to the wise.

 

[Treo]

It's interesting to me that a troll can walk in here and derail the entire disscussion and no one seems to notice what's happening