Asked to leave Kohl's for OC.

[NavyLCDR]

Beau, S&WM&P40,

Although I agree with you, I think we should give Gordon a break. He thanked us for our opinion and consideration. He stated why he chooses not to open carry. In this post he didn't claim the we should not open carry. He is free to choose if/how he wants to carry for whatever reason he wants to. We've both presented our sides and reasons for choosing to carry the way we do.

In response to his last post, I think we just need to say thanks to Gordon for supporting us even though he chooses to carry a different way than we do.

Now, if he had said that I shouldn't open carry... then....:angry:

:biggrin:

 

[S&WM&P40]

Beau, S&WM&P40,

Although I agree with you, I think we should give Gordon a break. He thanked us for our opinion and consideration. He stated why he chooses not to open carry. In this post he didn't claim the we should not open carry. He is free to choose if/how he wants to carry for whatever reason he wants to. We've both presented our sides and reasons for choosing to carry the way we do.

In response to his last post, I think we just need to say thanks to Gordon for supporting us even though he chooses to carry a different way than we do.

Now, if he had said that I shouldn't open carry... then....:angry:

:biggrin:

I'm in noway saying I do not respect his point of view, as I do. I was more or less pointing to something that is said over and over again. If you OC a firearm the Bad guy/guy's and or Girls(LOL, cant leave them out.) Will see it and jump you for it. Another "fact" that has been pulled out of thin air and made to be so. Not saying it does not happen because it may/does. But it does not happen as much as people like to claim.

While I myself do not choose to open carry a firearm all the time. I FULLY support the right of those who so choose to do so!

 

[rebelbiker987]

You know it's just like asking Coke or Pepsi, Chevy or Ford, Harley or Honda. Opinions are like a**holes...everyone has one...and everyone else's stinks!!! Just kidding on that but it has been some interesting conversation for both sides and as a recent recipient of my CCW permit I like hearing why everyone carries the way they do. I look forward to OK becoming OC just like one poster said, so I can have the option and don't have to worry about printing or accidentally showing my concealed weapon. Have a great April Fools day!

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Thank you gentlemen and ladies.

I will say again. I have been doing this 30+ years.
IMO
OK, if I am carrying concealed, and find that I am in a situation to open carry (if the law allows), what says that I cannot just pull up my shirt and hook it over the butt of my exposed weapon and walk on?

Walking into a home improvement store at 2pm in white mid-America, and walking down a chity street in Miami or Chitcago at 11 pm are certainly two different situations.

I have been in 3 situations, and I still feel that concealed is more appropriate for ME. NO details available.

The 4th= 1991 Luby's Cafeteria Massacre, Killeen, TX. I was there before the incident. Concealed. Good or bad timing?

 

[Gordon Shumway]

To all Who bit! Happy April Fools, You bought my story hook line and sinker, Gulliabilty. LMAO :sarcastic:

Someday it could be someone's reality.

This nation is facing an inevitable financial and social collapse.

It won't be long before we all might be facing situations that haven't even been shown in movies.

Carrington Event?

 

[Beau]

Thank you gentlemen and ladies.


The 4th= 1991 Luby's Cafeteria Massacre, Killeen, TX. I was there before the incident. Concealed. Good or bad timing?

Depends on how you look at it. On one hand you avoided being part of that slaughter.

On the other maybe you would have been in a position to stop it before it even got started.

I don't care if you were carrying CC, OC or on a chain around you neck. At least someone may have been able to return fire.

 

[Unfettered Might]

The 4th= 1991 Luby's Cafeteria Massacre, Killeen, TX. I was there before the incident. Concealed. Good or bad timing?

On one hand, Dr Suzanna Hupp became one of the greatest champions for CC.

On the other, I'm sure she would have rather had her parents.

That had to be a hard one for you though. I wouldn't lose a wink over killing a BG like that, but I would probably have had a few sleepless nights over thinking what I could have done if I had still been there.

Just how it is sometimes.

 

[usmarine01]

Right On Carry On

 

[Gordon Shumway]

On one hand, Dr Suzanna Hupp became one of the greatest champions for CC.

On the other, I'm sure she would have rather had her parents.

That had to be a hard one for you though. I wouldn't lose a wink over killing a BG like that, but I would probably have had a few sleepless nights over thinking what I could have done if I had still been there.

Just how it is sometimes.

1 more or 21 less........Just didn't have the opportunity.

A Combat Commander might have made a difference.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Without going back and checking......

If I said the BG WILL take your gun away, I apologize.

I think I said the BG MIGHT take your gun away.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Did you see the article about the young guy Mark Fiorino from Lancaster PA, who was arrested in Philadelphia for legal 'open carry'?

Google

Seems that he was "cowboying", deliberately cruising for a confrontation while carrying his recorder turned on, and the LEOs gave him a good trouncing for legally carrying.
In fact, he nearly got DEAD.

It is not clear if he was trolling for BGs or LEOs.
Listen to the audio and see what a problem people like this are.

Nobody ever claimed that handguns came with built-in "good common sense".

IMO, I prefer to carry concealed
and NOT initiate any confrontations with LEOs or BGs.

Here's the USCarry link
http://www.usacarry.com/philadelphia-open-carrier-harassed-by-police-with-audio/

 

[Beau]

Seems that he was "cowboying", deliberately cruising for a confrontation while carrying his recorder turned on, and the LEOs gave him a good trouncing for legally carrying.
In fact, he nearly got DEAD.

It is not clear if he was trolling for BGs or LEOs.
Listen to the audio and see what a problem people like this are.

Nobody ever claimed that handguns came with built-in "good common sense".

IMO, I prefer to carry concealed
and NOT initiate any confrontations with LEOs or BGs.

ARE YOU SERIOUS!????
You don't see the problem being that he was stopped, nope, or unlawfully detained, nope not the problem either, or the fact that he had a gun pointed at him and his life threatened, nope nothing wrong with that.

Your problem is with the free citizen who was conducting himself in a lawful and peaceful manner. We can't have that now can we.

It doesn't matter why he was doing it. I don't care why he was doing it and you shouldn't either. What you should care about is the fact that he was doing nothing wrong and HAD HIS LIFE THREATENED BY A THUG WITH A BADGE!!!!

I OC around 90% of the time. My reasons for doing so don't matter. You have your reasons for CC, I have mine for OC. What we should both be able to agree on is that neither of us should be treated like a criminal, have our posessions taken away and stripped of our rights on the whims of a thug with a badge.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

ARE YOU SERIOUS!????

Your problem is with the free citizen who was conducting himself in a lawful and peaceful manner. We can't have that now can we.

It doesn't matter why he was doing it.

I OC around 90% of the time. My reasons for doing so don't matter.

.

Please allow me to clarify my personal opinion for everyone.

Mr. Mark Fiorino exercised extremely poor judgement in that circumstance. PERIOD.

If he were DEAD now,
would that be better?

 

[Beau]

Update

I just spoke with Amy who is in charge of H.R. for my regional district. She has already spoken with Brian, the guy who asked me to leave, and she is now waiting to hear back from Kohl's legal department.

This is taking forever but at least I'm getting somewhere. I can't even count the number of emails I've sent and people I've talked to regarding this matter.

 

[Beau]

2nd update

I just spoke with Amy again.

Her answer was a non answer. Kohl's does not prohibit carry in their stores. Nor do they allow it.

Apparently Kohl's policy is to take matters regarding firearms on a case by case basis. In my case two customers and a sales associate complained about my carrying a firearm. So the store decided I should leave.

When I asked if I could have this policy in writing I was told that would not be possible.

I asked to speak with someone higher. She told me she would have the regional manager call me.

 

[PHATSPEED7X]

I just spoke with Amy again.

Her answer was a non answer. Kohl's does not prohibit carry in their stores. Nor do they allow it.

Apparently Kohl's policy is to take matters regarding firearms on a case by case basis. In my case two customers and a sales associate complained about my carrying a firearm. So the store decided I should leave.

When I asked if I could have this policy in writing I was told that would not be possible.

I asked to speak with someone higher. She told me she would have the regional manager call me.

Sounds like they don't wanna get caught up in the issue. But again it doesn't make any sense...

They have to take a side. Either they ban guns, or they allow them. This is where a group of Open carry supporters, and the local media might help. Get the issue out in the open.

 

[S&WM&P40]

I just spoke with Amy again.

Her answer was a non answer. Kohl's does not prohibit carry in their stores. Nor do they allow it.

Apparently Kohl's policy is to take matters regarding firearms on a case by case basis. In my case two customers and a sales associate complained about my carrying a firearm. So the store decided I should leave.

When I asked if I could have this policy in writing I was told that would not be possible.

I asked to speak with someone higher. She told me she would have the regional manager call me.

Sounds like you will need to take it up a notch. Call the press(TV news,news paper's etc...) get them to come out and interview you in front of the store. Get together a group of people to open carry into the store all at once and have them film it. Turn the flim over to the new agencies . Have a protest in front of the store(or in front of it on the PUBLIC sidewalks). Print out flyers about how anti this store is and attach to the back of it peoples rights under state law to OC.

Everyone says "Do it the nice way, call and talk with them." When that fails sometimes you have to take a page out of the union's play book.

Don't back down!

 

[Beau]

Sounds like you will need to take it up a notch. Call the press(TV news,news paper's etc...) get them to come out and interview you in front of the store. Get together a group of people to open carry into the store all at once and have them film it. Turn the flim over to the new agencies . Have a protest in front of the store(or in front of it on the PUBLIC sidewalks). Print out flyers about how anti this store is and attach to the back of it peoples rights under state law to OC.

Everyone says "Do it the nice way, call and talk with them." When that fails sometimes you have to take a page out of the union's play book.

Don't back down!

Meh. I'll be happy with a confirmed policy. If they will adopt a solid policy one way or the other I'm good. I'll definately let them know that I'll be posting my experience on various forums and that the outcome could affect their $'s.

 

[S&WM&P40]

Meh. I'll be happy with a confirmed policy. If they will adopt a solid policy one way or the other I'm good. I'll definately let them know that I'll be posting my experience on various forums and that the outcome could affect their $'s.

They will never give you a copy of the policy unless you sue them for it. Or have a friend on the inside. They will also never adopt a straight forward policy stating they allow carry/disallow it. That's how they can hide in the gray area and claim to both sides of the issue they don't take sides.

Person who pays for it is the law abiding citizen who carries into their stores,after being told it's not disallowed.

 

[Punch]

Sounds like you will need to take it up a notch. Call the press(TV news,news paper's etc...) get them to come out and interview you in front of the store. Get together a group of people to open carry into the store all at once and have them film it. Turn the flim over to the new agencies . Have a protest in front of the store(or in front of it on the PUBLIC sidewalks). Print out flyers about how anti this store is and attach to the back of it peoples rights under state law to OC.

Everyone says "Do it the nice way, call and talk with them." When that fails sometimes you have to take a page out of the union's play book.

Don't back down!

Not a good idea. And, I am a Union official. This works when you have a sympathetic customer base. My guess is that most of the public would rather shop without having Mr. Cowboy wannabe walking around with his gun than the other way around. I don't agree with them, but then again I understand the Second Amendment. I have stated my opinion on "rights" before on this forum, and I appreciate the views by those that think they have them. However, getting a hostile public involved in an issue like this will do absolutely nothing to further your cause. When I say "hostile public", I am speaking from my location. Nebraska is a pretty pro-gun State, but Kohls is not a store a lot of men frequent here (unless they are dickless yuppies). So, if the store's customer base is women and men with fusia shirts and sandles (has to do with the location of our Kohls), having a bunch of good ol' boys with guns on TV is not going to gain any sympathy. It is liable to strengthn Kohls case since the rabbit people will be happy that Kohls keeps the "nuts with guns" out of their store. That is why nobody knows that I carry a pistol with me when I am out and about.