Asked to leave Kohl's for OC.

[Beau]

Well it finally happened. After years of OC with no negative interactions I was asked to disarm and told not to carry in their store.

Location: Havana and Mississippi in Aurora.

Time: Approximately 1500

Place: Kohl's

Today I went into Kohl's to exchange a couple online purchases. I walked to the rear of the store to the customer counter. Stood in line for about 10 minutes. Spoke with service desk lady and went to find the item I wanted. Walked around store for about 15 minutes. When I returned to the customer counter there was a man there talking on the phone. He approached me and introduced himself. He then asked if I was law enforcement and when I said no he asked the reason for my carry. He then informed me that they don't allow that there and I would need to exit the store and disarm.

I left the store, placed my firearm inside my vehicle and went back in to further speak with this person. I won't type everything that was said. The conversation did go quite well. He is an ex cop and is now in charge of loss prevention. He explained that the policy was from corporate and not the store. He did seem quite surprised when I informed him that this was the first time I had been asked to leave a business because of my OC.

Anyway, I will be sending a letter to corporate. I will post their response if I get one.

 

[concealdcarrier]

No Way

As an ex-cop he actually thought it was appropriate to ask you to do this. I actually semi-don't buy that he WAS an ex cop. I'm typing from my phone or I would look up any statute in your area. Let us know their response, I can mark Kohl's off my list of places I buy crap I don't need.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I'm typing from my phone or I would look up any statute in your area.

Why? You will not find any statute that says a private property owner/agent of owner is required to allow firearms on their private property.

 

[[email protected]]

He explained that the policy was from corporate and not the store. He did seem quite surprised when I informed him that this was the first time I had been asked to leave a business because of my OC.

Anyway, I will be sending a letter to corporate. I will post their response if I get one.

I believe he is a big fat liar. Kohl's has always been a 'we follow state laws' place.

 

[Area Man]

Navy LT is right, I'm pretty sure there are no statutes anywhere that would require a private business to allow you to open carry. And ex-cop or not, the guy is following the rules laid down by corporate, and whether he agrees with them or not, he's paid to enforce them.

I look forward to seeing your response from the Kohl's corporate office.

 

[HootmonSccy]

I believe he is a big fat liar. Kohl's has always been a 'we follow state laws' place.

If the above is true.. Then I hope you include the gentleman's name in your letter.. Maybe HE will be the next person asked to go outside the store..

 

[S&WM&P40]

Well it finally happened. After years of OC with no negative interactions I was asked to disarm and told not to carry in their store.

Location: Havana and Mississippi in Aurora.

Time: Approximately 1500

Place: Kohl's

Today I went into Kohl's to exchange a couple online purchases. I walked to the rear of the store to the customer counter. Stood in line for about 10 minutes. Spoke with service desk lady and went to find the item I wanted. Walked around store for about 15 minutes. When I returned to the customer counter there was a man there talking on the phone. He approached me and introduced himself. He then asked if I was law enforcement and when I said no he asked the reason for my carry. He then informed me that they don't allow that there and I would need to exit the store and disarm.

I left the store, placed my firearm inside my vehicle and went back in to further speak with this person. I won't type everything that was said. The conversation did go quite well. He is an ex cop and is now in charge of loss prevention. He explained that the policy was from corporate and not the store. He did seem quite surprised when I informed him that this was the first time I had been asked to leave a business because of my OC.

Anyway, I will be sending a letter to corporate. I will post their response if I get one.

Why e-mail when you can call. I'm on the phone with them now. We shall see if they need to be added to the anti list, or if this was a one time thing.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Why e-mail when you can call. I'm on the phone with them now. We shall see if they need to be added to the anti list, or if this was a one time thing.

That's been an awful long phone call! :biggrin:

 

[S&WM&P40]

That's been an awful long phone call! :biggrin:

They gave me the same old line. Our corp policy is a follow all local/state and federal laws pertaining to firearm usage/ownership.

They gave me a e-mail address and a phone number if I wanted to press the issue.

I asked them to start enforcing their own policy's at a store level. Stop discriminating against customers who are FOLLOWING your corp policy and as such they are following all state/local/federal laws.

I said by allowing stores to disregard company policy's by asking customers to leave the stores on the grounds they are in violation of company policy.
Can open you up to lawsuit's and or a class action suit.

At that point the lady was lost and told me to call the number.

If your going to open carry a firearm. Carry copies of that stores corp policy in your car. You can find the blanket e-mails all over the web, just remove the name at the bottom and add in your own. Or just remove the name all together and keep the e-mail stating policy. Before entering the store grab the letter for the said store.

 

[NavyLCDR]

They gave me the same old line. Our corp policy is a follow all local/state and federal laws pertaining to firearm usage/ownership.

The problem with that statement is that local/state and federal laws pertaining to firearm usage/ownership say that the owner/agent can prohibit firearms on their private property. When a corporation makes that statement, all they are really saying is we will do whatever the heck we want to do. That statement is no guarantee of the ability to possess firearms on their property.

 

[nogods]

I said by allowing stores to disregard company policy's by asking customers to leave the stores on the grounds they are in violation of company policy.
Can open you up to lawsuit's and or a class action suit.

That's where you probably lose all credibility with them. Unless you have a state law requiring a private property owner to allow customers to possess firearms on their property, I doubt any such threat is taken seriously.

I see three possible ways of approaching the issue with a store, and only one of them seems to me it would be likely to have any success:

1. It's a second amendment issue.

2. I don't feel safe shopping in your store and need a weapon to protect myself

3. It's just a matter a convenience. I am allowed by law to carry my weapon and it is a major inconvenience for customers like me to have to dis-arm before entering your store to do business.

1 and 2 will get you no where. 3 might have some impact.

Open carry is much more a problem. Does a store want people to have the perception that its customers need to be armed while on their premises because they are at risk of being threatened with deadly force?

While a store may be willing to allow its customers to conceal carry, or maybe even open carry, it certainly doesn't want to broadcast the fact as part of its corporate image, just as it doesn't put up big signs saying "made in China" even though in fact most of the items in the store are made in China.

 

[unevrno]

I am not sure what the laws in your state are like, but in Nebraska, I believe, if a business other than ones already restricted in the law itself (bars, courthouses, etc.) wishes to enforce a 'No Firearms' rule, they can, but they must have a sign, visible from the outside of the business, saying so.

 

[ccwaz]

carry on private property

I don't think any State has a law that says the owner or manager (or their representative) of any private property has no right to ask you to disarm. The key is that a store or a shopping center is private property, even if the public is allowed to be there (which makes it a "public place", but still private property).

If you carry concealed, and there is no sign posted, no problem. But if you insist on open carry, you will occasionally run into people who are afraid of guns, including some customers who may complain to management. If management thinks that they may lose customers over the issue, they will eventually post signs prohibiting even concealed carry. These are commercial enterprises, and if you are frightening off their customers, you are a problem.

Just as we want other people to respect our right to carry, we have to respect other people's rights to control their own property. If you get belligerent and get in people's face about this, we are likely to lose the ground we have gained. Please play nice, or we'll all get kicked out of the sandbox.

 

[IWLAFART]

By open carrying and an issue came up with your right to carry. Now the store will probably post a sign and that will hinder concealed carry if you obey the sign.

 

[Bondhead88]

Kohls

I find this unusual for Kohls. I travel extensively and I shop at Kohls because of their return policy.

I carry and usually by dress it is under a suit coat but while I am trying on pants it is very visible.

I have had associates help me in many different states from WV, IN, UT, MI, KY MS TX, AZ and other places. I even tell them that the pants need to work with my holster. (many times dress pants have belt loops to close for my pancake holster)

Two weeks ago I returned a pair of pants in Frankfort, KY for this exact reason and told them why. They even asked to help me find a replacement pair that would work for my holster. I was there an hour and nobody including the store manager questioned the reason.

I think it was your particular store and I don't accept that it is Kohls policy. I believe you and what happened to you is true I just don't believe they were telling you the truth.

I have seen the nicest people in the world smile and tell me HUGE whoppers of a lie.

 

[S&WM&P40]

That's where you probably lose all credibility with them. Unless you have a state law requiring a private property owner to allow customers to possess firearms on their property, I doubt any such threat is taken seriously.

I see three possible ways of approaching the issue with a store, and only one of them seems to me it would be likely to have any success:

1. It's a second amendment issue.

2. I don't feel safe shopping in your store and need a weapon to protect myself

3. It's just a matter a convenience. I am allowed by law to carry my weapon and it is a major inconvenience for customers like me to have to dis-arm before entering your store to do business.

1 and 2 will get you no where. 3 might have some impact.

Open carry is much more a problem. Does a store want people to have the perception that its customers need to be armed while on their premises because they are at risk of being threatened with deadly force?

While a store may be willing to allow its customers to conceal carry, or maybe even open carry, it certainly doesn't want to broadcast the fact as part of its corporate image, just as it doesn't put up big signs saying "made in China" even though in fact most of the items in the store are made in China.

Please people have sued for less and won. If some dumb ass does not understand that coffee is hot and burns them self's. Then turns around and sues the company and wins.

A person or group of people would have no problem suing a company for discrimination, emotional hardship, etc..

In the age of youtube and live streaming media services you can play the got you game. Film the store employee over stepping their authority and or running his/her mouth about their personal opinion. Then plaster that all over the net. Big companies start to get the point when your effecting their wallets.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Why not just carry concealed? I really don't understand all this hoopla about wanting your weapon exposed. IMO open carry has a number of serious negatives about criminals and "the public" seeing your weapon. If nobody knows I have a weapon then there is NO negatives for the situation.
30+ years of CC.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Why not just carry concealed? I really don't understand all this hoopla about wanting your weapon exposed. IMO open carry has a number of serious negatives about criminals and "the public" seeing your weapon. If nobody knows I have a weapon then there is NO negatives for the situation.
30+ years of CC.

1. Deterrence. 60% of felons interviewed said they would not attack a person they KNEW was armed. How are they going to know you are armed if they can't see it?

2. Education. The negative reactions are never going to lessen if we don't show the public the image of normal Americans doing normal activities who just happen to value their self-protection enough to carry a firearm.

The negative reactions are never going to lessen if the only image the public sees of guns is the image provided to them by the anti-gun crowd and the anti-gun media.

The negative reactions are never going to lessen if gun owner's themselves act like the gun is some evil object that must be hidden away.

The negative reactions are never going to lessen if we don't change the laws that imply that a gun itself is an evil object that must be under government control.

3. Ease of access. Drawing an openly carried gun is quicker than having to move the concealing garment first. Also there is less movement involved to indicate to the perpetrator that you are drawing your gun.

BTW, I don't understand all the hoopla over open carrying either. Seems like most of the hoopla is coming from the concealed carry only crowd. We don't care if you carry your gun concealed, so why are you so concerned with us carrying our guns openly?

 

[Beau]

Why not just carry concealed? I really don't understand all this hoopla about wanting your weapon exposed. IMO open carry has a number of serious negatives about criminals and "the public" seeing your weapon. If nobody knows I have a weapon then there is NO negatives for the situation.
30+ years of CC.

You say that OC has a number of serious negatives yet you didn't list any of them. Please provide them. If your going to use the argument that a crook will try and steal your gun back it up with verifiable accounts. Otherwise it is nothing more than your uninformed opinion.

In the 5 or so years I've been carrying OC this is the first negative I've encountered.

Read the post by Navy LT. The only things I will add to it are.

1) OC is a lot more comfortable way to carry. I carry a Glock 21 and two additional mags. Not the easiest weapon to deep conceal.

2) Colorado is an OC state. No permit is required to carry a firearm so long as the firearm is carried in plain view.

 

[HootmonSccy]

In the age of youtube and live streaming media services you can play the got you game. Film the store employee over stepping their authority and or running his/her mouth about their personal opinion. Then plaster that all over the net. Big companies start to get the point when your effecting their wallets.

IF I were going to take this approach, I would NOT post the video. I would contact the store and Tell them I have the video or provide them with a copy of the video.. I then would give them an opportunity to make the situation right..
If they resist, then threaten them that you will post the video..
If they still resist, THEN post the video..

I believe in giving people and companies the chance to do the right thing.. Many times they will.. Especially if they understand the possible negative consequences of doing the right thing..