WTF is going on???school shooting.

[BC1]

Good lord ... what the heck is happening to this planet ... cannot imagine what the parents of these children are going through.
But I can imagine this -
I can imagine being asked to represent my most dearly held beliefs about gun rights and self-defense before a gathering of the parents of these kindergartners, all of us sitting in a room festooned with photos of their lost four and five year-olds. I can imagine them looking me dead in the eyes, having no preconceived notions about what I might say, just politely waiting to hear me pontificate about how the Second Amendment protects my right to own my M4 and a couple thousand rounds of ammunition.
I imagine leaving without uttering a word.

It's not fair, in fact it's an unspeakable shame - 80 million of us didn't do this. But WTF are we supposed to say to these people, and millions of like-minded others all over the country?
The sicko murdering cowards like this perp today are destroying us. We are sinking into the ocean, even while legislation in some parts of the country (Illinois, for one) seems to suggest we're making progress.

I can multitask - I can feel anguish and pray for these children and parents, while feeling real despair about our own diminishing liberties. I'm almost out of gas, out of hope.

A very astute, well thought out post. Hits this issue right on the head.
.
Back in June my closest neighbor, a good friend to my wife and disabled female LEO, took her own life. I heard the "pop" while working out by the barn. My wife walked up the road to see why the police were there. She called me yelling "get up here now." This was a 47 year-old beautiful girl. A great neighbor who cooked for me when I had heart surgery and spent countless time in our home over the past 15 years. She had severe spinal injuries and surgery and was in constant pain. Back in May she asked if I had a box of .38's she could have as her ammo was old. I gave her a box of Speer Gold Dot HP. She used one of those rounds to end her life. What could I say to her husband? I was broken up by it. I haven't taught any gun classes since. Don't know if I'll ever teach another one. Her husband actually comforted me... he understood the gun wasn't the problem. He told me not to feel bad as I was just being a good neighbor at the time. But what do you say to these family members?

 

[K7lvo]

Good lord ... what the heck is happening to this planet ... cannot imagine what the parents of these children are going through.
But I can imagine this -
I can imagine being asked to represent my most dearly held beliefs about gun rights and self-defense before a gathering of the parents of these kindergartners, all of us sitting in a room festooned with photos of their lost four and five year-olds. I can imagine them looking me dead in the eyes, having no preconceived notions about what I might say, just politely waiting to hear me pontificate about how the Second Amendment protects my right to own my M4 and a couple thousand rounds of ammunition.
I imagine leaving without uttering a word.

It's not fair, in fact it's an unspeakable shame - 80 million of us didn't do this. But WTF are we supposed to say to these people, and millions of like-minded others all over the country?
The sicko murdering cowards like this perp today are destroying us. We are sinking into the ocean, even while legislation in some parts of the country (Illinois, for one) seems to suggest we're making progress.

I can multitask - I can feel anguish and pray for these children and parents, while feeling real despair about our own diminishing liberties. I'm almost out of gas, out of hope.

I hear you. If my child or grandchild was one of the 20... Even after my life got back to whatever the new "normal" would be, every time I looked at a gun, it would remind me... But, would I also be reminded every time I looked at a 20-ish year old male???

I would have to ask myself: How did our ancestors in Revolutionary and Civil War times get through atrocities they suffered? Did THEY stop fighting?

 

[tattedupboy]

Arming teachers would a liability nightmare and it will never happen. For liability reasons alone, security should be left to professionals, and not teachers.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[2Awarrior]

I would have to ask myself: How did our ancestors in Revolutionary and Civil War times get through atrocities they suffered? Did THEY stop fighting?

Excellent. Very excellent. We forge ahead, stay the course.
And frankly, we all know guns fall into the wrong hands, as they did today - all the more reason for the righteous and free to bear them.
In conversation once with one of our "gentler brethren", I told him "Look, if we believe the Bible, your destiny is to inherit the Earth. My destiny is to make sure you get there in one piece. Pray to be delivered from Evil, and let Evil pray to be delivered from me." I don't know if I got through or not, but I hope he at least understood that many of us take very seriously our instinct to maintain ourselves in a reasonable state of preparedness. I think that's why it hurts us so much when an incident like this happens - we're all left in anguish, muttering to ourselves, "god, if I had been there, I might have made a difference..."

 

[K7lvo]

Arming teachers would a liability nightmare and it will never happen. For liability reasons alone, security should be left to professionals, and not teachers.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Lemme see now... Liability... Save lives... Liability... Save lives... What to do, what to do? Decisions, decisions...

 

[tattedupboy]

Lemme see now... Liability... Save lives... Liability... Save lives... What to do, what to do? Decisions, decisions...

Well unfortunately, in this lawsuit-happy society of ours, liability is something that has to be considered. If a teacher has a mishap with a gun they carry, the school district would be liable. But if security duties are handled by the police or a private security company, the school district isn't liable. Not saying I like it, but that's the reality, my friend.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[tricolordad]

Man! YOu just come up with this off the top of your head? Imaginative!

I had inspiration...my dad. he taught english for 42 years. Extremely anti 2a. Unless youre talking about his guns...

We are estranged, obviously.

 

[K7lvo]

What about the ex school board member that set off three bombs in a school in 1927?

From what I've read, it seems that they were more interested in the bomber than the bomb back then. They found that he had an uncontrolled temper and was mean and cruel to his livestock. His wife had fought cancer, or something like that, and left them deep in debt. He beat her to death, then burned the farm that was about to be foreclosed on before blowing up the school, and then himself, along with some more people.

Current reports state that today's murderer was somewhat autistic, and apparently had a blowup with her over some (almost certainly trivial) thing before murdering her, and then setting out to destroy everything she loved, before punching his own ticket.

See any PATTERN here???

 

[K7lvo]

Well unfortunately, in this lawsuit-happy society of ours, liability is something that has to be considered. If a teacher has a mishap with a gun they carry, the school district would be liable. But if security duties are handled by the police or a private security company, the school district isn't liable. Not saying I like it, but that's the reality, my friend.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

So, as long as we let the relatives of idiots and criminals use said idiots and criminals for gravy trains, we are hamstrung.

Wait a minute. Isn't Obama(care) their gravy train now?

 

[Ringo]

Let me make this very clear, it's a terrible happening when any child is murdered. Sadly the most sickening part about it today is that it all depends on who does the murdering, how they are murdered, why they are being murdered, and if it's legal, in our Godless Socialist Amerika. Talk about depraved individuals shooting school children, how about the depraved mothers & doctors that murder 4,000 babies everyday in our abortion mills (55 million & counting), and they casually call this kind of murder a women's right to choose. It's A-OKAY for a scumbag doctor in his "right mind" to drill a hole in the head of a baby being born and suck it's brains out for the sake of convenience, but it's an atrocity when some nut job "not in his right mind" murders children with bullets while in a school. We educate our children to believe that they are a product of evolution, FREAKS OF NATURE, and as children or an adult when they commit acts like only FREAKS OF NATURE commit, morons ask, what is going on? Still the most dangerous place to live in Amerika is in the mothers womb. However pathetic, this is realty.

 

[S&W645]

The government and anti-gun movement has no motive to murder our children. Only a mentally unstable person does such a thing.

Then you say in the next post.

The sad part is that Eric Holder's botched fast-n-furious resulted in ten times the number of casualties in Mexico. He was protected by a B.S. executive order.

You just proved that there are some in the gov't that are anti gun enough to break laws and that result in deaths. In many cases, the end justifies the means for the anti people in things like ELF, PETA, etc. So why shouldn't the gov't be looked at the same way?

 

[jg1967]

Another massacre in a Gun Free Zone. A tragedy for sure. I am in no way unsympathetic with the victims!

But while it should open the public's eye to the futility of creating these illusional safe zones it is already used as an argument that more gun laws are needed.

Nevermind that 60 million or so legally gun owning Americans DIDN'T shoot anybody today and the sheer statistical absurdity of ignoring that fact is mind boggling.

Nevermind the fact that even if we somehow managed to make the millions of legally owned guns in America dissapear overnight we'd still have the illegally owned ones which certainly will not be turned in voluntarily.

Nevermind the cold hard fact that we are getting all the illegal drugs we can swallow across a porous land border from Mexico making the Narco cartels filthy rich. So tomorrow it would be guns and dope.

Nevermind the simple fact that killing people is already illegal 7 ways under the sun and seems to have done nothing to prevent this tragedy.

Nevermind any logic at all!

I am indeed mad. Mad first at all at the crazy loon that did this, mad at the press for milking it for every bit it's worth because since it bleeds it leads, mad at the anti gunners which use it for their agenda and mad at any lawmakers suggesting feel good laws to "prevent" such things in future.

The only logical way to "prevent" this 100% is to completely disarm the entire country, create a police force that is millions strong and indeed at every corner and monitor everybody's intentions 100% of the time. What comes to mind is "Minority Report" and "1984". Anything less can not be 100% and thus not be certain to work. Who wants that?

 

[Rocketgeezer]

Arming teachers would a liability nightmare and it will never happen. For liability reasons alone, security should be left to professionals, and not teachers.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

I agree, but would you want to pay the extra surcharge or tax's to have 8 or 10 school resorce officers in the school? and even at that it no garrenty somebody would not get something in, its very clear gun laws are not the answer, if a individual wants to harm others they will, and use whatever meens possable, I have several friends that are LEOs and I was speaking to one last night and the suggestion was brought up about the deputys doing the schools instead of side jobs, and he said the school system don't want to pay nothing, not even what janitors get, and besides that, he honestly wasn't sure if he would rather patrol the school or bust hookers and drug dealers, as they were both dangerous, I had to agree

 

[Rocketgeezer]

After a moment of thought let me add, on the subject of arming teachers, it would have to be a program that would be completly voluntary on the part of the teacher, and would most like have to provide there own weapon, and training, it would not be a simple CCW permit course it would have to be something closer to what the average LEO does, and its not just guns, last year a teacher here was trying to break up a fight, and the combatants turned on him, hurt him bad, now he a vegetable for the rest of his life, and the offending boys got expelled and 5 years probation can you believe that S***......personaly that instince would not have called for a gun but a nice Tazer would have done a good job

 

[jg1967]

I agree, but would you want to pay the extra surcharge or tax's to have 8 or 10 school resorce officers in the school? and even at that it no garrenty somebody would not get something in, its very clear gun laws are not the answer, if a individual wants to harm others they will, and use whatever meens possable, I have several friends that are LEOs and I was speaking to one last night and the suggestion was brought up about the deputys doing the schools instead of side jobs, and he said the school system don't want to pay nothing, not even what janitors get, and besides that, he honestly wasn't sure if he would rather patrol the school or bust hookers and drug dealers, as they were both dangerous, I had to agree

Actually arming the teachers WOULD be a logical and effective approach. It's absurd that this will indeed not happen because of fears what they MIGHT do instead of considering what the shooters in all of this gun free zones massacres factually CAN do because nobody is able to intervene. I'd be willing to bet the farm there would have been far less than 28 people dead if one of the teachers would have been able to shoot back. We're not talking about a gun battle in Vietnam with limited visibility and hundreds of people engaging one another. We're talking about somebody strolling down a school hallway being the only one shooting. That's somebody that can be located and engaged.

 

[BC1]

Excellent. Very excellent. We forge ahead, stay the course.
And frankly, we all know guns fall into the wrong hands, as they did today - all the more reason for the righteous and free to bear them.
In conversation once with one of our "gentler brethren", I told him "Look, if we believe the Bible, your destiny is to inherit the Earth. My destiny is to make sure you get there in one piece. Pray to be delivered from Evil, and let Evil pray to be delivered from me." I don't know if I got through or not, but I hope he at least understood that many of us take very seriously our instinct to maintain ourselves in a reasonable state of preparedness. I think that's why it hurts us so much when an incident like this happens - we're all left in anguish, muttering to ourselves, "god, if I had been there, I might have made a difference..."

The parents and families will forever wonder if they could have done something to prevent it. My wife always says "why didn't I check on him? Why did I let him out alone? Why wasn't I there for him?" She was merely cooking dinner when he was grabbed from the yard and dragged into the woods. You don't expect such a thing to happen to an eight-year-old playing on his own property in a quiet farming community. The fact is she did nothing wrong. It was a completely normal Friday afternoon on a warm September day. But that doubt will always be there.

 

[BC1]

Then you say in the next post. You just proved that there are some in the gov't that are anti gun enough to break laws and that result in deaths. In many cases, the end justifies the means for the anti people in things like ELF, PETA, etc. So why shouldn't the gov't be looked at the same way?

Because f-n-f was a poorly conceived plan by persons motivated by an anti-gun administration to achieve their agenda. It wasn't conceived with the intent to murder Brian Terry or anyone else. It wasn't malfeasance, it was misfesance. It was a bad program because they lost track of the guns, run by guys who can't find their ass with both hands. It has highly negligent of them and thus is criminal.
.
The government is not actively seeking to murder 20 elementary school children. Neither the VPC, Brady, PETA or anyone other than a very disturbed person would accept this as collaterol damage in the war on guns. No, I don't think even these zealots would say the end justified the means. Although it helps their cause, I doubt anyone is gloating over this.

 

[BC1]

Actually arming the teachers WOULD be a logical and effective approach. It's absurd that this will indeed not happen because of fears what they MIGHT do instead of considering what the shooters in all of this gun free zones massacres factually CAN do because nobody is able to intervene. I'd be willing to bet the farm there would have been far less than 28 people dead if one of the teachers would have been able to shoot back. We're not talking about a gun battle in Vietnam with limited visibility and hundreds of people engaging one another. We're talking about somebody strolling down a school hallway being the only one shooting. That's somebody that can be located and engaged.

I agree that an armed presence would have ended this sooner. But I think incidents like this push many parents farther away from guns., thus they will be highly vocal against it. Perhaps the answer is a new form of LEO... school police. Trained specifically in active shooter situations. Although an armd teacher would have helped he's not a professional. He may get himself killed. Time to put professionals in the schools and end this "soft target" environment.

 

[BC1]

Another massacre in a Gun Free Zone. A tragedy for sure. I am in no way unsympathetic with the victims!

But while it should open the public's eye to the futility of creating these illusional safe zones it is already used as an argument that more gun laws are needed.

Nevermind that 60 million or so legally gun owning Americans DIDN'T shoot anybody today and the sheer statistical absurdity of ignoring that fact is mind boggling.

Nevermind the fact that even if we somehow managed to make the millions of legally owned guns in America dissapear overnight we'd still have the illegally owned ones which certainly will not be turned in voluntarily.

Nevermind the cold hard fact that we are getting all the illegal drugs we can swallow across a porous land border from Mexico making the Narco cartels filthy rich. So tomorrow it would be guns and dope.

Nevermind the simple fact that killing people is already illegal 7 ways under the sun and seems to have done nothing to prevent this tragedy.

Nevermind any logic at all!

I am indeed mad. Mad first at all at the crazy loon that did this, mad at the press for milking it for every bit it's worth because since it bleeds it leads, mad at the anti gunners which use it for their agenda and mad at any lawmakers suggesting feel good laws to "prevent" such things in future.

The only logical way to "prevent" this 100% is to completely disarm the entire country, create a police force that is millions strong and indeed at every corner and monitor everybody's intentions 100% of the time. What comes to mind is "Minority Report" and "1984". Anything less can not be 100% and thus not be certain to work. Who wants that?

Another great post. I've always maintained we can't stop crazy people from doing insane things. Crime will always find a way. And that element will always be arrmed. There is no way to disarm an entire country like America where there are no records of who owns a gun. We can merely take steps to minimize the impact such people can have. Longer prison sentences for violent criminals. Very long sentences for possession of a firearm by the mentally defective and those who have committed violent crimes. Better protection in soft target areas. But no, our elected officials will try to enact more restrictive laws against 100 million gun owners who would never harm anyone.

 

[gejoslin]

The parents and families will forever wonder if they could have done something to prevent it. My wife always says "why didn't I check on him? Why did I let him out alone? Why wasn't I there for him?" She was merely cooking dinner when he was grabbed from the yard and dragged into the woods. You don't expect such a thing to happen to an eight-year-old playing on his own property in a quiet farming community. The fact is she did nothing wrong. It was a completely normal Friday afternoon on a warm September day. But that doubt will always be there.

I so sorry for you and your wife's pain. I'll pray for your family as well as the children that were killed
. May God bless you all.