Winchester ammo.


MP3Mogul

New member
WWB ammo is perfectly fine, no problems with it, it's not seconds or whatever people say, it's first rate, never been fired brass.

I did find that Federal makes some "American Eagle" brand bullets, that are brass, that are awesome in price but only in ball ammo.

Price comparison: WWB 50 count 230 FMJ at WalMart: 27.99
American Eagle 50 count 230 FMJ At Sportsmans Warehouse: 19.99

I just bought 1000 rounds of the American Eagle tonight. At 20.00 per box, there is no way I could go wrong at all for .45. They had .40 caliber there for 11.99 a box... that is an awesome price! I can't buy empty brass for that in small quantities.
 

S&WM&P40

New member
WOW all the great feedback on this matter has stopped me in my tracks who knew a bullet was not just a bullet. But there are A list bullets and D list bullets just like Hollywood movie stars lol. When i asked if it would be ok to use the Winchester or UMC ammo. What i was getting at is would it let me down when my life was on the line? Thats what i meant by "Would it be ok to use"
As after buying my hand gun safe and my custom leather holster and mag pouch's and the soon to be M&P 9mm or 40. My wife will not be all to happy with me if i ask to go spend another 100 dollars on ammo. As if i go 9mm i have 3 mags so i need 56 rounds just to to fill the mags. Winchester has the JHP what box at walmart 100 rounds 115 grain for like 20 dollars. So thats why i keep asking about them. With other ammo that only comes in box's of 20 to 25 i would need to buy 4 box's at 20 to 21 dollars a box would be 90 to 100 dollars for ammo. So thats why i am looking for the A list ammo that comes in a box of 100 or 50 at a good price. If i can find that i will buy two box's of the 50 A list over the Winchester ammo.
 

LVLouisCyphre

Obama is a mack daddy!
Read the posting. CTD will only sell it to LEOs. Typically that would require you to provide an official ID or a statement on department letterhead. If you have a LEO friend who is willing to buy it for you, great. As for whether or not it would work, check your manual.
 

S&WM&P40

New member
Yes this i know. I have already talked to CTD and they said they will sell to Civ's but you have to call and talk to them to place the order it can not be done on the site. So again i ask will the M&P hold up?
 

LVLouisCyphre

Obama is a mack daddy!
Yes this i know. I have already talked to CTD and they said they will sell to Civ's but you have to call and talk to them to place the order it can not be done on the site. So again i ask will the M&P hold up?
Don't own a S&W M&P. I do not like the Glock/XD clones. S&W does not recommend the use of +P+ ammo in any of their pistols; see the manual under the ammuntion section Link Removed. I do know that the S&W 5906 was a standard issue LEO sidearm for many years with most agencies, southern Nevada with LVMPD included; you can't tell me that some agencies didn't put +P(+) through it. +P is a SAAMI spec, +P+ is not. None of the firearm makers to my knowledge will certify or warranty their firearms for use with +P+ ammo as it's not a SAAMI standard.

Would +P+ ammo hurt your pistol, maybe, maybe not. I personally have adopted the practice of only putting +P(+) ammo through pistols that have a steel frame and putting the maximum power recoil spring available from Wolff in the pistol. However, you may have to downgrade your recoil spring to a standard or reduced power recoil springs if you practice with standard pressure loads such as UMC or USA (WBB).

The best practice I tell others is use the best round that will give you the maximum service life out of your firearm(s).
 

LongRider

New member
IMO for self defense you want the most effective ammo you can possibly get. ESPECIALLY when we are talking about a handgun which is an inadequate man stopper at best. So, yes it makes a difference, very possibly the difference between life or death. That is why so many of us spend so much time energy and money researching ammo. You want, No Need the best performance you can get consistent expansion, accurate and reliable. Not all ammo is equal, some does not expand well others separate etc. There is a reason some ammo costs more than others. That does not mean you need to buy the most expensive stuff made. Take a look at these links to pages with some pretty dramatic pics of different SD ammo from a two different sites. Nothing like seeing the expansion difference side by side.

ballistics testing - round 1 - varied 9mm JHP's
ballistics testing - round 2 - varied 9mm JHP's
ballistics testing - round 3 - varied 9mm JHP's - shooting through tshirts
ballistics testing - round 5 - comparing 9mm JHP velocities
ballistics testing - round 6 - Federal HST 9mm vs 45 acp
ballistics testing - round 7 - shooting through denim
Terminal Ballistics .45 ACP
Terminal Ballistics 9mm

As you will see some rounds expand almost to the size of a quarter, while others are barely the size of a nickel. The next set of links are from tests done at LEO facilities around the country and provide a great deal of comparative information of several different brands of ammo including Rangers and HST. They are downloadable PDF files so you will need Adobe Acrobat to read them if you do not have Adobe Acrobat . You can download it Here

Link Removed
Link Removed
Link Removed
Link Removed
Link Removed
Link Removed
Link Removed
Link Removed
Link Removed
Link Removed

As you see HST out performs the other ammo tested. It has solid penetration accurate reliable and has consistent expansion no matter what it is shot into or through. Is it worth the extra money? I don't know how much is your life worth? How much is your wife's life worth. $10 a box? $20? $50? At $20 for a box of 50 it will cost you a bit over $45 from Link Removed to your door.

A couple of things. Before you look at SD ammo I strongly suggest that you break your gun in according to the manufactures recommendations before you start to carry it. Get any issues that it may have resolved before you start betting your life on it. Normally thats about 500 rounds. Use Wally World FMJ for the first 250 and than go with the JHP after that. Never ever use FMJ for as carry ammo. After your gun is broken in I always run at least 250 rounds of my carry ammo through my gun to be sure that it is 100% reliable in my gun. In days gone by there were times I could not afford 250 rounds of carry ammo at once, so I would buy a box or two at a time until I was sure that the ammo was 100% reliable and functioned perfectly in my gun. No matter what you decide to carry be sure to run at least 250 rounds of that ammo through your gun. If you up grade later one its another 250 rounds of that ammo, so IMO it is best to start with the best. I understand about how money can be tight but we are talking about your family's lives here. It is no time to skimp and save a few bucks. A couple of hundred dollars is small change compared to hospital bills or funeral expenses. So, until I do those two things I would never carry a gun for self defense. Link Removed has boxes of 500 rounds for $195. That is pretty darn good to me a lot less than .45 HST and cheaper in the long run than if you buy a box or two at a time. That will be enough to do your 250 round test, load your mags and have plenty to spare. You will be good for a couple of years, at least.
 

Scarecrow

New member
Yes this i know. I have already talked to CTD and they said they will sell to Civ's but you have to call and talk to them to place the order it can not be done on the site. So again i ask will the M&P hold up?

have you ever come across federal HST's on your search for CC ammo? I came across them on my search and it's all I will carry. I have them in 9mm, .40, and .45. check out this link and you can see why.

Bullet results after firing

if you are interested in buying some, they come in boxes of 50. federal will only sell them to law enforcement.. but again this is federal's thing, it is not illegal for you to own them. I buy them here at this site. the link below. and for a box of 50 rounds with such high performance they are very well priced!!

Search Results : Ammunition To Go
 

S&WM&P40

New member
ESPECIALLY when we are talking about a handgun which is an inadequate man stopper at best?? What does that mean? you saying 9mm is not a good man stopper? As a navy seal said in a training video i watched "When I put two in your heat and one in your head you will never know differences" The navy seals use 9mm sigs and it gets the job done for them. USMC use the M9 9mm works for them So i think the 9mm will do if not i will buy a Glock and buy a upgrade kit and make it so it will shot 50GI sounds..
 

S&WM&P40

New member
I found this and like it what do you think? 50rds - 9mm Federal LE Tactical HST 124gr. HP Ammo for 19.95.
 

LongRider

New member
ESPECIALLY when we are talking about a handgun which is an inadequate man stopper at best?? What does that mean? you saying 9mm is not a good man stopper?
No I am saying that ALL handguns are inadequate man stoppers. Regardless of some video you saw. According to Jeff Cooper Clint Smith, Massad Ayoob, Fairbain & Sykes or any handgun expert past or present you can name and personal experience ALL handguns are inadequate man stoppers. Based on a FBI study less than 20% all handgun wounds are fatal. One shot fatalities are far lower by any definition that is inadequate.
Sure, .22 head shots are fatal 100% of the time which is why the mob used them for executions. All you have to do is get 100% of your victims to kneel down while you shoot them in the head, until they are dead. Or just as likely making head shots 100% of the time with a 9mm through the smoke and stench of crap & blood when bullets are flying, people are screaming crying and dying. If anyone can do that please contact me and I will gladly pay whatever the price is for your training course. Fact is even if you do make the head shot it is no guarantee that it will be fatal I know of a guy that was shot point blank with a .357 magnum that literally blew half of his brain off. The gist of his three foot thick neurological report says that his autonomic functions had to be rerouted to the remaining portion of his brain (less than half of its original mass) as quickly as the bullet went though his skull in order for him to live which he did. He is capable of speech and mobility. You can see half of his skull is missing they did not put a plate or anything in. Human beings can be amazingly resilient and handguns are inadequate man stoppers
 

Scarecrow

New member
I found this and like it what do you think? 50rds - 9mm Federal LE Tactical HST 124gr. HP Ammo for 19.95.

based on the test firing in the first link of my last post. the 147 gr federal HST performed better. not sure if you would have the same results shooting from your pistol or not. the ammo is cheap enough. maybe buy a box of both and do your own testing. sounds like a lot of fun to me!
 

S&WM&P40

New member
No I am saying that ALL handguns are inadequate man stoppers. Regardless of some video you saw. According to Jeff Cooper Clint Smith, Massad Ayoob, Fairbain & Sykes or any handgun expert past or present you can name and personal experience ALL handguns are inadequate man stoppers. Based on a FBI study less than 20% all handgun wounds are fatal. One shot fatalities are far lower by any definition that is inadequate.
Sure, .22 head shots are fatal 100% of the time which is why the mob used them for executions. All you have to do is get 100% of your victims to kneel down while you shoot them in the head, until they are dead. Or just as likely making head shots 100% of the time with a 9mm through the smoke and stench of crap & blood when bullets are flying, people are screaming crying and dying. If anyone can do that please contact me and I will gladly pay whatever the price is for your training course. Fact is even if you do make the head shot it is no guarantee that it will be fatal I know of a guy that was shot point blank with a .357 magnum that literally blew half of his brain off. The gist of his three foot thick neurological report says that his autonomic functions had to be rerouted to the remaining portion of his brain (less than half of its original mass) as quickly as the bullet went though his skull in order for him to live which he did. He is capable of speech and mobility. You can see half of his skull is missing they did not put a plate or anything in. Human beings can be amazingly resilient and handguns are inadequate man stoppers

I was not in any way trying to make it seem like me or any one for that matter could be 100% dead on all the time. I Was just saying that The best the US military has, the Seals,delta,berets and so on are trained to cut down on how many times they miss. I am not saying they are 100% on all the time every one misses. As for killing some one it may not kill them but it will take them out of the fight and thats all that really matters to me. When they are no longer a threat to me i can no longer use a gun on them at that point i would tie them up or use my ASP cuffs if it was inside my home. I was getting at the point that i am sick of hearing the 9mm be called a bad round or a girl round. You could get hit with a 22 and die as you said. NOW BACK ON TOPIC i will look into the ammo more as i will be the first to say i know nothing about ammo. I was told the 124 has a higher FPS and the 147 has a slower FPS is this true?
 
Last edited:

LongRider

New member
NOW BACK ON TOPIC i will look into the ammo more as i will be the first to say i know nothing about ammo. I was told the 124 has a higher FPS and the 147 has a slower FPS is this true?
Researching the links I posted for you on my original post will provide you with the info you asked for
BTW the reason the military weapons are .223 long guns is because handguns are ineffective man stoppers Handguns are their weapon of last resort. Which I believe are loaded with ball ammo due to NATO restriction. I will never carry ball ammo in a SD weapon
 
Last edited:

burchesss

New member
Here in VA the only questions I am asked at walmart, is rifle or pistol and they check Id for age but dont record any thing. it seems strange that they take your word that it is for a long gun. more gun laws at work for us all!
 

New Threads

Members online

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
49,626
Messages
627,001
Members
74,753
Latest member
russvb
Top