S&W645
NRA Life Member
No problem.
leasantry: As for getting hit by those things, I agree. I want to be on the sending end and not the recieving end of the gun.
Why is .45 the new 9mm?
- Thread starter Daven
- Start date
leasantry: As for getting hit by those things, I agree. I want to be on the sending end and not the recieving end of the gun.
6shootercarry
New member
Yes... That's the ticket. Shot placement is the key. There is no magic bullet...
The Myth of Energy Transfer
Link Removed
I do like the .45 for the muzzle aperture diameter intimidation factor.. :biggrin:
ShooterRick
New member
Well I am new here but.....
Guess I should just weigh in. I carried a 45acp 1911 compact for many years.
After Heart surgery the 45 created a buzz in the stainless wire in my chest when fired. No big deal but distracting. I went to the 40 SW round and was fine. I now carry either a Para LDA or my Belgium HighPower both in the 40 cal.
As to a 9mm my thoughts are simple. If needed god forbid I must shoot you I would rather hit you with a 4x4 rather than a 2x2 if ya know what I mean. Regardless of your caliber of choice the decision should be one you are comfortable with and can shoot under stress well with. A 22 is better than throwing rocks but but either way you better be able to hit what ya need to.
Pesonally I believe mag capacity is over rated. If ya need more than a couple rounds you are in a war not a self defense situation and most likely dead.:cray:
Guess I should just weigh in. I carried a 45acp 1911 compact for many years.
After Heart surgery the 45 created a buzz in the stainless wire in my chest when fired. No big deal but distracting. I went to the 40 SW round and was fine. I now carry either a Para LDA or my Belgium HighPower both in the 40 cal.
As to a 9mm my thoughts are simple. If needed god forbid I must shoot you I would rather hit you with a 4x4 rather than a 2x2 if ya know what I mean. Regardless of your caliber of choice the decision should be one you are comfortable with and can shoot under stress well with. A 22 is better than throwing rocks but but either way you better be able to hit what ya need to.
Pesonally I believe mag capacity is over rated. If ya need more than a couple rounds you are in a war not a self defense situation and most likely dead.:cray:
Treo
Bullet Proof
So, do you just give up?
H
handgonnetoter
Guest
I think that even firearms can follow certain trends - which are effected by a number of things - from politics to ammo technology. I find myself carrying a .380 auto lots of the time. Ten years ago that was not the case. Personally, I would not want to stop a BB let alone a 230 grain round. I still feel that shot placement is still the most important thing to remember. JMHO.:laugh:
ShooterRick
New member
Not what I meant to suggest. I suggest anyone that carries be well enoeph trained to hit the target. Under stress this can be more difficult than you can imagine. That means anyone in my opinion, should be diligient in there practice and training. If anyone makes a decision to carry a firearm they should seek out a good training program not just the minimum required to qaulify for a CCW.
Those of us that carry have made a decision in our minds to potentially take someone elses life. That is huge and therefore I believe I have a responciblity to be as prepared as possible. While nothing can completely prepare you for a real life situation there are some great instructors that can get you close.
If you have say 10 rounds as an example. By the time you get to round 7 the aggressor or you are probably dead or fleeing the scene. Even if they have say a AK by the time you point shoot 3 rounds it is most likely over one way or the other. Of course there are exceptions to every thing but most likely it is over. Remember most self defense situations are within a 30 ft distance.
Ed Hamberger
New member
I agree with you completely B2Tall, while I don't own a full size .45, I do carry a subcompact .45 that I carry daily during the colder months. Other times I pocket carry my 9mm and/or my .380.
leasantry:
MNBlackjack
New member
You get 25 rounds in one mag?????
hp-hobo
New member
That was an example of the gun I had just carried this AM while grocery shopping. 12+1 plus an extra mag for a total of 25. The one I just placed in the safe after coming home from supper is 15+1 plus a spare mag for a total of 31.
I know that on paper, 3 rounds is all I'll need. You know, 3 yards, 3 shots, 3 seconds. But what if I'm in Big-Box parking after dark and get accosted by 3 or 4 thugs?
Realistically, I'll probably never need that much ammo. Hell, I hope to never need any at all. But just like I don't buy gas a gallon at a time because that's all I need for my next trip, shorting myself on ammo doesn't seem like a good plan either.
All that being said, my daily "goin' to work" gun is a 6-shot .38 Special with one speed strip in my pocket. Just hope I don't need more than a dozen. That's the plan anyway.
MNBlackjack
New member
I have a 1911 that carries 14 + 1. That's 29 rounds of 45ACP with a spare mag. And because it is a .45, I feel much safer than I would carrying my Model 92 Beretta...or my model 96 Beretta for that matter. My normal every day carry is a Kimber Ultra Crimson Carry II. That's 7+1 for a total of 15 rounds of 45ACP. Yours was 12 rounds of .38? I'm sorry I am trying to understand the logic of carrying a smaller round if you shoot a .45 as proficiently or even more proficiently than you would the smaller cailber. Since you carry a wheel gun that is a six shooter, what is the argument that you have with a .45?
B2Tall
Stirrer of the Pot
Well if more than one of them has a gun then you're probably a dead man regardless of how many rounds you have.
hp-hobo
New member
You seem to be trying to start an argument where one doesn't exist. Of course, that's not unexpected based on my experience with this forum.
Would you please be so kind as to show me where I've said anything that can be construed as negative about the .45 ACP in this thread? Or anywhere for that matter? This information would also come as a surprise to myself, my wife and my G21.
hp-hobo
New member
That's a very astute observation. Based on that train of thought, we should all leave our guns at home because we might be outgunned. Kind of cut out the middle man.
Tell ya what. I won't decide how many rounds or what caliber you should to carry, and you can extend the same courtesy to me.
Treo
Bullet Proof
Ed Hamberger
New member
Lmao!!! About the only thing anyone would see from you big bad guys in a dark big-box parking lot if you were approached by 3 or 4 big, ugly BG's is the back side of your drawers as you run like hell for safety... :lol:
MNBlackjack
New member
I didn't mean to imply that you had anything against the round. But maybe against the capacity of the firearms that are chambered for that round. I was just trying to understand why you might have an issue with a carry sized 1911 when you yourself carry a six shooter as an EDC. That is all. My personal preference is a carry sized 1911 (7+1+7) because I can shoot it confortably...actually better than I shoot my 9mm. The extra energy that it packs upon impact, for me, is a bonus. Even if I bought a Glock or other tupperware gun, I cannot shoot it comfortably, and that is most important. If you can find a gun you like to shoot, you would probably practice more and be more comfotable should you need to defend yourself.
I was merely trying to understand. I apologize if I came across as argumentative.
B2Tall
Stirrer of the Pot
Tell ya what. Show me where I've told you what to do with regards to anything.
You threw a question out there. I answered it. I really don't care if you push around a shopping cart full of loaded mags, if you're facing more than one gun pointed at you it would be suicide to draw. I think I'd be better off giving up my cash and car keys than to be a dead Rambo-wannabe. I'm a firm believer that discretion is the better part of valor. If you think you can take out multiple armed BGs "Hollywood style", who already have the drop on you, then best of luck with that. You've got more gumption than me.
Now if one or fewer of these hypothetical attackers has a gun.....well then it's game-on. In that case I'm pretty sure they'd be running long before you got to the last round in your first mag, and if they weren't then it's highly unlikely that they'd just stand there while you produce your spare mag and reload your pistol. They'll be on top of you.
I'd rather be alive and giving a descriptions to the police than be laying in a pool of my own blood and "warm brass". Of course that wouldn't work for Treo. He never talks to LEOs under any circumstances :biggrin:
NM-1911
Carry: Taurus PT-1911
I carry a 1911, thus a .45 fan, however, that being said, this is a very old argument. From my standpoint (no pun intended) there will never be an "optimal" situation for either caliber. The news stories you read or head about where police fire umteen rounds, that is their TRAINING. Most local law enforcement are taught and trained to continue to fire until the threat has stopped. On the other hand, the military police and defense forces are trained under "live fire" simulations. The military are also taught shot placement and team work. If you have ever seen a SWAT team work, that is as close to military discipline and team work as a civilian organization comes.
I have talked to many law enforcement officers and solders and the overwhelming consensus is shot placement. In an actual fire-fight, one does not have the time to accurately aim and place each shot. Most peoples REACTIONS are to keep shooting until the gun is empty. I had a fortunate opportunity to participate in a live fire exercise as a civilian. At that time, I usually shot 3-4 times a week, and 200-500 rounds each time, all "tactical" shooting. At that time, I shot with a group of current and former military as well as several law enforcement officers and a couple of FBI agents. The courses that were set up were anything from military style training to the FBI style training. (I don't envy either group!) I was taught to do a double tap, followed by a single tap. So, do the math, out of a possible 9 rounds in my 1911, I could only take down 3 bad guys before I would have to do a magazine swap. Most of the courses, required taking down anywhere between 3 and 12 bad guys. Anyhow, back to the live fire exercise, in the first encounter, I EMPTIED my 1911. 9 rounds, at one bad guy. I hit the bad guy 3 times. In fact, after watching the video, I hit the bad guy with my first 3 rounds, BUT, the bad guy was still discharging his firearm, so I kept shooting, and missing. I was asked how many rounds I thought I fired,; my answer was 5 or 6, not 9. Because of adrenaline, I did not have the situational awareness to check my firearm. The slide was locked back, and the next bad guy my team encountered, I brought the firearm up and pulled, not squeezed the trigger, several times. Obviously, nothing happened, and I was actually shot, 3 times. (That's beside the point here.)
The point in this long winded post is my shot placement on the first bad guy was 2 , center mass, about 3 inches apart, and the third was just below the neck. The guy was down, however, that did not register to me because he was able to discharge his firearm again, which I interpreted that I missed, so I kept shooting.
After talking with the military guys, they said, no matter what gun you carry, the only thing that will save you in a fire-fight is training. So that you act on instinct and not on thought. I was told, "By the time you think you should shoot, it's too late." That part of instinctual shooting is what I strive in my personal training to attain.
So, 9mm vs 45? I choose to carry the firearm I am most comfortable with. I know my 1911 and how it reacts when I pull the trigger. I know pretty much where my shot is going to hit if I am within 15-30 feet of my target.
My personal belief is as far as caliber, it doesn't make a whit of difference, so long as you are confident with your firearm and your ability... The only exception here is something like a .22 or .17 HMR.
Yes, my signature states if you can't hit it in 8, you sure won't hit it in 21, but that is just to tweak the nose of my Glock toting friends (and the funny thing is most of my friends prefer the Glock to the 1911).
And I agree with ClearSiteTactical in that there is no penalty for too much ammunition. I pack my full size Taurus PT-1911 and 2 additional magazines. If I am heading to the "gang banger" side of town for what ever reason, I carry my Galco shoulder rig with two magazines, and a total of 4 additional magazines on my belt. (I don't go there very often though.)
Just keep in mind that this age old argument is primarily a matter of opinions. Training and practice is what will keep you alive.
I have talked to many law enforcement officers and solders and the overwhelming consensus is shot placement. In an actual fire-fight, one does not have the time to accurately aim and place each shot. Most peoples REACTIONS are to keep shooting until the gun is empty. I had a fortunate opportunity to participate in a live fire exercise as a civilian. At that time, I usually shot 3-4 times a week, and 200-500 rounds each time, all "tactical" shooting. At that time, I shot with a group of current and former military as well as several law enforcement officers and a couple of FBI agents. The courses that were set up were anything from military style training to the FBI style training. (I don't envy either group!) I was taught to do a double tap, followed by a single tap. So, do the math, out of a possible 9 rounds in my 1911, I could only take down 3 bad guys before I would have to do a magazine swap. Most of the courses, required taking down anywhere between 3 and 12 bad guys. Anyhow, back to the live fire exercise, in the first encounter, I EMPTIED my 1911. 9 rounds, at one bad guy. I hit the bad guy 3 times. In fact, after watching the video, I hit the bad guy with my first 3 rounds, BUT, the bad guy was still discharging his firearm, so I kept shooting, and missing. I was asked how many rounds I thought I fired,; my answer was 5 or 6, not 9. Because of adrenaline, I did not have the situational awareness to check my firearm. The slide was locked back, and the next bad guy my team encountered, I brought the firearm up and pulled, not squeezed the trigger, several times. Obviously, nothing happened, and I was actually shot, 3 times. (That's beside the point here.)
The point in this long winded post is my shot placement on the first bad guy was 2 , center mass, about 3 inches apart, and the third was just below the neck. The guy was down, however, that did not register to me because he was able to discharge his firearm again, which I interpreted that I missed, so I kept shooting.
After talking with the military guys, they said, no matter what gun you carry, the only thing that will save you in a fire-fight is training. So that you act on instinct and not on thought. I was told, "By the time you think you should shoot, it's too late." That part of instinctual shooting is what I strive in my personal training to attain.
So, 9mm vs 45? I choose to carry the firearm I am most comfortable with. I know my 1911 and how it reacts when I pull the trigger. I know pretty much where my shot is going to hit if I am within 15-30 feet of my target.
My personal belief is as far as caliber, it doesn't make a whit of difference, so long as you are confident with your firearm and your ability... The only exception here is something like a .22 or .17 HMR.
Yes, my signature states if you can't hit it in 8, you sure won't hit it in 21, but that is just to tweak the nose of my Glock toting friends (and the funny thing is most of my friends prefer the Glock to the 1911).
And I agree with ClearSiteTactical in that there is no penalty for too much ammunition. I pack my full size Taurus PT-1911 and 2 additional magazines. If I am heading to the "gang banger" side of town for what ever reason, I carry my Galco shoulder rig with two magazines, and a total of 4 additional magazines on my belt. (I don't go there very often though.)
Just keep in mind that this age old argument is primarily a matter of opinions. Training and practice is what will keep you alive.
