Why is .45 the new 9mm?
- Thread starter Daven
- Start date
gynojunkie
New member
It's a large projectile and, whether RN or JHP, large projectiles make big wounds and stopping power (I don't care a hoot about 'one-shot stops'); I also reload and the .45 is simple, straight, fairly easy and low pressure; 9 mm & 40 mm can get very twitchy on the reload, whereas the .45 is quite forgiving.
Yes, .45's are heavier guns, less concealable, but there are lots of options to solve those 'problems.' And those heavier guns dampen the recoil to very manageable--so you can practice, fairly inexpensively, too--because you need muscle memory to be effective when the SHTF.
Finally, John Moses Browning knew his STUFF!
Pokey
Go Buckeyes
Probably due to all the "BS" babble over a 9mm not being a man stopper round. The Germans sure took down way too many of our troops during WWII with this whimpy round "MP40, Luger and Walthers", and if it doesn't kill you quickly you have to deal with the very probable hydrostatic shock effect of the round. I don't care for the slow and heavy 45 round, I would prefer a 40 over it anyday.......40 might very well be the perfect overall defensive round anyways. So I guess you can tell that I am a fan of the 9mm, and I'm sure I'll be shooting and using them for self defense for many years to come.
CalicoJack10
New member
Seems to me that you should not need more than 8 rounds. Mostly because there is no need to pull a NYPD and dump 96 rounds out at a guy and then hope you hit him 5 or 6 times. Round accountability is very very important to self defense. And while the 9mm is a good round, as is the .40, the truth is that i want a round that is going to take my attacker off his feet.
Sure that may mean that they stumble and fall, but the kinetic energy in a .45 acp would easily stop someone if the penetration doesn't. The sad fact is that it is becoming a trend in the inner cities for these gang bangers to start wearing body armor. A majority of the incidents involving the illegal use of said armor don't hit the news cause it allows the attacker to get away. But if you hit some thug gang banger who is wearing body armor with a .45, you are surely going to put them on their a$$.
Sure that may mean that they stumble and fall, but the kinetic energy in a .45 acp would easily stop someone if the penetration doesn't. The sad fact is that it is becoming a trend in the inner cities for these gang bangers to start wearing body armor. A majority of the incidents involving the illegal use of said armor don't hit the news cause it allows the attacker to get away. But if you hit some thug gang banger who is wearing body armor with a .45, you are surely going to put them on their a$$.
hp-hobo
New member
Really?
Well if the premise of your post was scientifically accurate, wouldn't discharging your side arm also cause you to be knocked on your ass? First? Because the projectile would have to leave your muzzle with at least as much energy as it hits your assailant with. Please help me to understand modern physics.
Just sayin'.
Cocked _and_Locked
Banned
Now there's some scientifically-inaccurate physics-ignorant white-trash logic, if I ever heard it! :lol:
hp-hobo
New member
Indeed.
Coming from the King of Ignorance, I'll take that as high praise.
If you're capable of reading multi syllable words;
The truth about handgun knockdown power
And since you probably need pictures;
YouTube - Myths Revisited 2 - Blown Away
So. What information do you have that refutes what's been known for about 600 years? Please answer in small, simple words for this ignorant white trash.
S&W645
NRA Life Member
Same company ammo of the same type in like guns 9mm vs .45. Bullet weight will be higher in the .45 as will the lb/ft of energy. In fact in full size guns for both sizes, the .45 will still be flying at the same speed as the 9mm leaving the barrel, 100 yds downrange.
And I never concider the .45 as the new 9mm. .45 has always been the ammo since 1911. The others are the wannabes.
And I never concider the .45 as the new 9mm. .45 has always been the ammo since 1911. The others are the wannabes.
ClearSightTactical
New member
Here we go again, the age old argument of 9mm vs .45ACP.
To those who say you should not need more than 8 rounds, I say you should not need even 1 round. I'm a believer in Murphy's law and there are many things that could go wrong. You obviously believe in things going wrong, hence you carrying a weapon in the first place. Multiple attackers, low light situations, weapon malfunctions, assailant in body armor behind cover, etc. etc. there is NO penalty for having too much ammo. .
To those who reference 'stopping power' I'd redirect you to a study conducted by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI).
http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf
Highlights of the study:
Page 12 paragraph 3
Goddard amply proves the fallacy of 'knock-down power' by calculating the heights (and resultant velocities) from which a one pound weight and a ten pound weight must be dropped to equal the momentum of 9mm and .45ACP projectiles.
According to the same study conducted by the FBI:
Page 12 paragraph 4
A bullet simply cannot knock a man down. If it had the energy to do so, then equal energy would be applied against the shooter and he too would be knocked down. This is simple physics, and has been known for hundreds of years.
In short, I carry a Glock 17 chambered in 9mm, I am more than confident that should I ever need to use it, the weapon would perform equally as well as a .45ACP. Shot placement is key, a .50 is about a useful as a .22lr if you miss. SHOT PLACEMENT is critical as verified by major law enforcement study's.
To those who say you should not need more than 8 rounds, I say you should not need even 1 round. I'm a believer in Murphy's law and there are many things that could go wrong. You obviously believe in things going wrong, hence you carrying a weapon in the first place. Multiple attackers, low light situations, weapon malfunctions, assailant in body armor behind cover, etc. etc. there is NO penalty for having too much ammo. .
To those who reference 'stopping power' I'd redirect you to a study conducted by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI).
http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf
Highlights of the study:
Page 12 paragraph 3
Goddard amply proves the fallacy of 'knock-down power' by calculating the heights (and resultant velocities) from which a one pound weight and a ten pound weight must be dropped to equal the momentum of 9mm and .45ACP projectiles.
According to the same study conducted by the FBI:
Page 12 paragraph 4
A bullet simply cannot knock a man down. If it had the energy to do so, then equal energy would be applied against the shooter and he too would be knocked down. This is simple physics, and has been known for hundreds of years.
In short, I carry a Glock 17 chambered in 9mm, I am more than confident that should I ever need to use it, the weapon would perform equally as well as a .45ACP. Shot placement is key, a .50 is about a useful as a .22lr if you miss. SHOT PLACEMENT is critical as verified by major law enforcement study's.
Cocked _and_Locked
Banned
I think the OP is alluding to the matter of the .45's increasing popularity, and the answer is pretty simple. Smart people catch on over time and eventually realize or figure out what S&W645 just said.
Cocked _and_Locked
Banned
This a good example of the selective reasoning applied here all the time. And it would in fact be true if the gun was a block of granite with no moving parts.
That's the part they leave out: Not so simple physics.
Personally, I wouldn't want to get shot with either one of them, but I digress....
leasantry:ClearSightTactical
New member
This a good example of the selective reasoning applied here all the time. And it would in fact be true if the gun was a block of granite with no moving parts.
That's the part they leave out: Not so simple physics.
Personally, I wouldn't want to get shot with either one of them, but I digress....
Talk about selective reasoning. Your preference is the .45 obviously and are biased. You have no information to challenge the findings of the FBI who I think may know a thing or two about forensics, and ballistics.
hp-hobo
New member
More incorrect information.
As the chart linked below shows, .45 ACP has a muzzle velocity slower than the 100 yard velocity of the 9mm. This is just one example of what most (all?) ammo makers will tell you. What do you know that ammunition manufacturers don't?
Link Removed
Cocked _and_Locked
Banned
Actually, if you want to be precise, the gun would have to be a 230gr block of granite to expend the same energy into the shooter. Pretty small. Actually physically impossible, so....
But I don't think this is the time or place for physics lessons here. Look up the terms "inertia" and "dissipation in dynamic force" if you need more clarification.
What the FBI knows or not may however, be a subject for debate...
ClearSightTactical
New member
And you have credentials that outweigh those of the person conducting the study?
I'm just saying many major study's confirm that .45 vs 9mm is a useless comparison. If you can find a study conducted by a reputable company, agency, or university proving otherwise I think it would be better than stating your opinion with no verifiable study's, charts, or research behind it....
Cocked _and_Locked
Banned
So tell us then CST, what DOES explain the general public's newfound affinity for the .45?
All arguments about the relative merits of the rounds aside...
Be careful, because I'm prepared to agree with things like groupthink and herd mentality. That explains alot.
All arguments about the relative merits of the rounds aside...
Be careful, because I'm prepared to agree with things like groupthink and herd mentality. That explains alot.
ClearSightTactical
New member
I'd venture to guess it's the rumored "knock down power" that comes with .45ACP, don't know for sure. Personally, a .45ACP beats bare hands, as does a 9mm, I prefer 9mm because according to my research it'll do the same thing as a .45ACP at half the cost allowing me to train more for the same $.
tbone1964
New member
Blah Blah Blah.. ya know theres a saying.. I'd rather be shot by an idiot with a .45, Than a marksman with a 9mm.. shot placement gentleman shot placement. Hell a .22 will kill ya if it hits ya in the occular cavity. who here thinks they can put a .22 round in the occular cavity at defensive distances???
Treo
Bullet Proof
I want to know who is out there reloading 40 milimeter rounds
