Why Do You Carry Concealed?

[Firefighterchen]

So, what you stated was, "Should we allow concealed carry EVERYWHERE as the NRA proposes?

If so, I don't want to take my family to ANY place where alcohol is served."

Louisiana is the only state where firearms are completely prohibited by law anywhere alcohol is served. So, unless you live in Louisiana that means that you don't want to take your family ANY place where alcohol is served in any of the other 49 states? You do understand that you are more likely to be killed by a drunk driver or driver under the influence on the way to the restaurant than killed by a person under the influence of alcohol with a gun, right?

Upon further research it looks like LA now allows firearms in restaurants where alcohol is served, so I guess you aren't safe in Applebee's in Louisiana any longer either. But at least I know I shouldn't ever run into you in most of the places where my family and I dine out.

Three examples in his mind mean way more of the carriers in the United States that don't mind having a glass of wine at dinner end up shooting someone...I mean...he has three whole examples...THREE!!

Sent from my D6616 using USA Carry mobile app

 

[mojo risin]

I mean...he has three whole examples...THREE!!

No luck on any of those names yet, huh?

Why am I not surprised?

So the only example you can name is a CC who fled when confronted by a shooter.

Outstanding.

 

[mojo risin]

You do understand that you are more likely to be killed by a drunk driver or driver under the influence on the way to the restaurant than killed by a person under the influence of alcohol with a gun, right?

Wow,.... they should consider making that illegal, huh?

Sounds a little dangerous to me.

Nah,... that would unfairly punish those who drink and drive without ever killing anyone.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Wow,.... they should consider making that illegal, huh?

Sounds a little dangerous to me.

Nah,... that would unfairly punish those who drink and drive without ever killing anyone.

Not even close. You see, the problem is that you cannot distinguish the difference between possessing an object and using that object in a negligent manner. You stated, "Should we allow concealed carry EVERYWHERE as the NRA proposes?

If so, I don't want to take my family to ANY place where alcohol is served."

And you even capitalized ANY. You are much more likely to be killed by a drunk driver. So, if we apply your same fear of people possessing firearms where alcohol is served - than you should be much more afraid of the people who are in possession of car keys where alcohol is served, especially if, OMG, they are consuming alcohol with car keys in their pocket! Oh, the horrors of it! You seem to be perfectly fine with the limit of it being illegal for a person to DRIVE under the influence being illegal rather than possession of keys to the car, but yet you are in fear when the same limitation is placed on the USE of a firearm rather than the POSSESSION of a firearm.

You would receive a much more warm welcome associating more with other people who are also afraid of people carrying guns rather than hanging around here.

 

[mojo risin]

Not even close.

This should be stunning.

the problem is that you cannot distinguish the difference between possessing an object and using that object in a negligent manner.

Really?

Smith drew the .45-caliber Kimber pistol show its safety features to a friend when he fired it into the floor, a report stated.

Doesn't look like Smith was "using" his weapon?

he accidentally discharged his handgun while at the bar. The bullet went through his right thigh and into the left thigh of the other man seated beside him.

Doesn't look like the Wichita guy was "using" his either?

"He had the gun is his pocket, and I don't know how he shot himself but the gun went off," said Ellen Smith, who was inside when it happened. "He shot himself through his hand and his thigh and the bullet went through his leg and shot his friend's foot.

Nope - apparently Cassata wasn't "using" his either.

Kentucky CCW shot in the leg when gun falls from toilet paper dispenser in restaurant bathroom.

Hmmm,.... that's odd?

It's almost as if these folks were possessing an object in a negligent manner.

you should be much more afraid of the people who are in possession of car keys where alcohol is served, especially if, OMG, they are consuming alcohol with car keys in their pocket! Oh, the horrors of it!

Yes of course - the accidental discharge of a key in a crowded restaurant poses a pretty serious threat in today's society,... something must be done.

You would receive a much more warm welcome associating more with other people who are also afraid of people carrying guns rather than hanging around here.

I'm not particularly interested in a "warm welcome" from anyone who believes the 2nd amendment should extend to folks who are intoxicated.

I just enjoy pointing out that the mentality does exist.

 

[NavyLCDR]

This should be stunning.

Really?

Smith drew the .45-caliber Kimber pistol show its safety features to a friend when he fired it into the floor, a report stated.

Doesn't look like Smith was "using" his weapon?

he accidentally discharged his handgun while at the bar. The bullet went through his right thigh and into the left thigh of the other man seated beside him.

Doesn't look like the Wichita guy was "using" his either?

"He had the gun is his pocket, and I don't know how he shot himself but the gun went off," said Ellen Smith, who was inside when it happened. "He shot himself through his hand and his thigh and the bullet went through his leg and shot his friend's foot.

Nope - apparently Cassata wasn't "using" his either.

Kentucky CCW shot in the leg when gun falls from toilet paper dispenser in restaurant bathroom.

Hmmm,.... that's odd?

It's almost as if these folks were possessing an object in a negligent manner.

Yes of course, the accidental discharge of a key is a pretty serious threat in today's society,... something must be done.


I'm not particularly interested in a "warm welcome" from anyone who believes the 2nd amendment should extend to folks who are intoxicated.

I just enjoy pointing out that the mentality does exist.

What is absolutely stunning is the utter stupidity of your arguments. I know I am wasting time and internet bandwidth to reply directly to you, but the door is just so wide open to expose the stupidity of your reasoning that I just can't resist going through it...

My gun (and every gun) has just as much chance of discharging by itself, with no human manipulation of it, whether I am sitting in McDonalds where no alcohol is served or sitting in Applebees where both alcohol is served and guns are allowed be carried. My car (and every car) has just as much chance of driving itself away and injuring someone, with no human manipulation of it, whether it is parked in McDonald's parking lot or Applebees parking lot. Historical statistics clearly show that you are much more likely to be injured by a person who has negligently used their car keys under the influence of alcohol to operate a motor vehicle anywhere you happen to be in public than you are to be injured by a person negligently handling their firearm where alcohol is served. Yet you remain so afraid of the presence of a firearm in a place where alcohol is served that you claim, "Should we allow concealed carry EVERYWHERE as the NRA proposes? If so, I don't want to take my family to ANY place where alcohol is served." but you seem to have no issue with taking your family to ANY place where alcohol is served and people are allowed to possess car keys. Therefore, logic shows that you should be MORE afraid just driving to Applebees (or anywhere else) anywhere that allows car keys to be possessed in places that serve alcohol than afraid of a person with a gun in a holster in Applebees because the odds are much greater that the person possessing the car keys is going to use them negligently under the influence of alcohol to operate their vehicle - but if your emotional and irrational fear was based on logic it would not be emotional and irrational.

For every person that has negligently handled a firearm where alcohol was served there are thousands of people who have negligently handled car keys where alcohol was served.

However it is much easier to appease your irrational and emotional fears by passing gun control laws regulating the possession of a firearm than it is to pass vehicle control laws regulating the possession of the keys required to operate a vehicle because you have the support of all the others with irrational and emotional fears of people possessing firearms.

 

[mojo risin]

What is absolutely stunning is the utter stupidity of your arguments.

Yet oddly it's you who claimed that a loaded handgun poses no more threat to patrons in a crowed place than a key.

Now THERE'S some utter stupidity.

I know I am wasting time and internet bandwidth to reply directly to you, but the door is just so wide open to expose the stupidity of your reasoning that I just can't resist going through it...

Yes, I own you - we get it.

My gun (and every gun) has just as much chance of discharging by itself, with no human manipulation of it

But that's certainly no reason to infringe on your pathetic need to take it to a public place where it could accidentally kill other patrons, huh?

Historical statistics clearly show that you are much more likely to be injured by a person who has negligently used their car keys under the influence of alcohol to operate a motor vehicle

Not sitting in a crowded restaurant, they don't.

What part of this is tripping you up exactly?

but you seem to have no issue with taking your family to ANY place where alcohol is served and people are allowed to possess car keys.

At the risk of being redundant - I never heard of a concealed key accidentally discharging and killing anyone.

logic shows that you should be MORE afraid just driving to Applebees

Not a lot of folks driving around in concealed automobiles.

Makes the intoxicated ones a little easier to avoid.

Seems logic isn't exactly your strong suit.

For every person that has negligently handled a firearm where alcohol was served there are thousands of people who have negligently handled car keys where alcohol was served.

The negligence of the key holder only occurs when they use it to operate a motor vehicle.

And oddly enough, that's also when it becomes illegal - you know, when you put the two together and they become dangerous.

In fact, it would appear there are indeed restrictions on simply operating a motor vehicle where alcohol is served.

I'm reasonably certain that bringing your car inside is against Applebee's company policy.

What do you make of this?

However it is much easier to appease your irrational and emotional fears by passing gun control laws regulating the possession of a firearm than it is to pass vehicle control laws regulating the possession of the keys required to operate a vehicle

<sigh>

Let me help you with your incredibly stupid analogy.

A key is required to operate a motor vehicle in the same way than a bullet is required to operate a firearm.

Possession of a key in a bar is likely no more dangerous than possessing a bullet.

Only a total idiot would make the leap that the same is true of a loaded firearm.

Glad I could clear that up for you.

You're welcome BTW.

 

[Farmhood]

Never fails... we always get an Oprah follower "ban spoons cause it made Oprah fat" ; ( hey you are welcome to your opinion but "owning people" on an internet forum is... well..kind of wierd.

sinful nature is always hostile to God....

 

[Firefighterchen]

There is a new batch of trolls... Mojo is just another one.

Sent from my D6616 using USA Carry mobile app

 

[CharlesMorrison]

It was only a matter of time before USA Carry was infiltrated by Moms Demand Stuff...

Mojo is a non gun owning anti gunner.

I would not even be surprised to find out that mojo raisins is a high level clown from MDA.

She doesn't carry, nor even own guns so why bother with her?

This is definitely a case of do not feed the troll(s).

Sorry Mo but you lose (again)...Link Removed

 

[mojo risin]

Never fails... we always get an Oprah follower "ban spoons cause it made Oprah fat"

Well, let's see......

My gun (and every gun) has just as much chance of discharging by itself, with no human manipulation of it

Now, maybe it's just me, but I suspect it would be quite difficult to make an analogous comparison to eating utensils and obesity .

Are you absolutely certain that you gave your response as much thought as you had intended?

Mojo is a non gun owning anti gunner.

I was going to say that I hate to call you a liar - but I don't really.

 

[NavyLCDR]

But that's certainly no reason to infringe on your pathetic need to take it to a public place where it could accidentally kill other patrons, huh?

Link Removed

Link Removed

IHOP Shooting: Multiple People Shot In Carson City, Nevada

No, there's never any need to defend yourself with a gun in a restaurant, or theater, or school.

And what happens when good people are there carrying guns?

Link Removed

Gun Owner Saves Lives In The Richmond VA Golden Market Shooting

At the risk of being redundant - I never heard of a concealed key accidentally discharging and killing anyone.

I've never heard of a concealed gun accidentally discharging by itself and killing anyone either, so we are even. When people die from guns discharging it is because a human has caused the trigger to be pulled all the way to the rear. The human is responsible for the death, just like the impaired human driver is responsible for the death in a car wreck.

Not a lot of folks driving around in concealed automobiles.
Makes the intoxicated ones a little easier to avoid.
Seems logic isn't exactly your strong suit.
The negligence of the key holder only occurs when they use it to operate a motor vehicle.
And oddly enough, that's also when it becomes illegal - you know, when you put the two together and they become dangerous.
In fact, it would appear there are indeed restrictions on simply operating a motor vehicle where alcohol is served.
I'm reasonably certain that bringing your car inside is against Applebee's company policy.
What do you make of this?

Impaired Driving: Get the Facts | Motor Vehicle Safety | CDC Injury Center

"Every day, almost 30 people in the United States die in motor vehicle crashes that involve an alcohol-impaired driver. This amounts to one death every 51 minutes. The annual cost of alcohol-related crashes totals more than $59 billion."

How well is it working to prohibit operating a motor vehicle while intoxicated? Your answer to the extremely few firearms related injuries that occur where alcohol is served is to either prohibit firearms where alcohol is served or not take your family ANYwhere that alcohol is served and firearms are permitted to be carried. Hmmmm..... let's see where this goes....

<sigh>

Let me help you with your incredibly stupid analogy.
A key is required to operate a motor vehicle in the same way than a bullet is required to operate a firearm.
Possession of a key in a bar is likely no more dangerous than possessing a bullet.
Only a total idiot would make the leap that the same is true of a loaded firearm.

Glad I could clear that up for you.

You're welcome BTW.

Every 51 minutes someone dies because a person operating a motor vehicle had access to both the keys to the car and alcohol at the same time. Keep the keys to the car away from the drinking and they can't use them to operate the vehicle. So, you claim that in order to be safe from firearms injuries or deaths in a place that serves alcohol we must either prohibit guns in those places or you need to not take your family ANYwhere that serves alcohol and permits guns to be carried. That's great. So you eat your dinner peacefully knowing there is a no guns sign on the door of the restaurant where people are drinking. Well, genius, what is there in place to keep you safe when you leave that restaurant and drive on the highways where someone dies due to an alcohol impaired driver every 51 minutes? Hmmm.....? Since every driver who drives while impaired by alcohol had to have access to both keys to the car and alcohol at the same time it would seem to me that possessing keys at the same location where alcohol is available must be the root or source of the problem.

So, genius, to break this down to it's simplest terms - you fear the guy with the gun in the restaurant in the immediate area of the restaurant, but you have no fear of the same guy with keys in his pocket. The reality is, sure, if he doesn't have a gun there is no chance that he will kill you or injure you inside the restaurant with a gun. On that we can agree. Instead historical statistics show that even if he did have a gun - he is hundreds of times more likely going to get you on the highway on the way home anyway - all because he had access to car keys and alcohol at the same time. But that's perfectly OK for you because he isn't going to kill anyone inside the restaurant with his keys. So, according to your solutions, let's either require everyone entering an establishment that serves alcohol to give up their keys upon entry and only when the pass a breathalyzer test on the way out can they have them back - or else you need to keep your family off ANY road where there might be a impaired driver.

Mojo is a non gun owning anti gunner.

I must disagree with you CM. Mojo is a gun owner who is against people carrying guns in public for protection. To me that is much worse than a non gun owning anti gunner.

 

[mojo risin]

And what happens when good people are there carrying guns?

Like perhaps these "good people"?

Michael Dewayne Bowman of Georgia
Jason Kenneth Hamilton of Idaho
Michael Hrnciar of Indiana
Shawn Bryan of New York
Ashford Thompson of Ohio
Richard Poplawski of Pennsylvania
Christina Korbe of Pennsylvania
Michael Donovan Oswald of South Carolina
Randy Gilbert Newberry of Virginia

Google them up, and tell us how much safer they made the world.

And those are just CC's who murdered cops.

Since there have been over 670 people murdered by CC's in the last 7 years, it may be time for you to reconsider what constitutes "good people" in your mind, because CC permits don't get it.

I've never heard of a concealed gun accidentally discharging by itself and killing anyone either, so we are even.

Just kinda making it up as you go, huh?

When people die from guns discharging it is become a human has caused the trigger to be pulled all the way to the rear.

You are horribly incorrect.

In fact, I recently disposed of a Titan .25 automatic because it would randomly empty the clip simply by releasing the slide to chamber a cartridge.

How well is it working to prohibit operating a motor vehicle while intoxicated?

As opposed to issuing permits and encouraging it?

You can't be that stupid.

Your answer to the extremely few firearms related injuries that occur where alcohol is served is to either prohibit firearms where alcohol is served or not take your family ANYwhere that alcohol is served and firearms are permitted to be carried. Hmmmm..... let's see where this goes....

We are already seeing it.

Whilst you have the right to bear arms, I have the right to prohibit you from bearing them on my property.

And as I'm sure you probably already know, more and more business owners are exercising that right.

Now you can cry and whine and threaten to take your business elsewhere - but it has done nothing to stem the tide so far.

Every 51 minutes someone dies because a person operating a motor vehicle had access to both the keys to the car and alcohol at the same time.

Not inside restaurants.

Did you have a point yet?

So, genius, to break this down to it's simplest terms

I can hardly wait.

The reality is, sure, if he doesn't have a gun there is no chance that he will kill you or injure you inside the restaurant with a gun.

Wow you're right - those are the simplest terms!

And again, I'm glad I could clear that up for you.

Instead historical statistics show that even if he did have a gun - he is hundreds of times more likely going to get you on the highway on the way home anyway - all because he had access to car keys and alcohol at the same time.

I'm hundreds of times more likely to get bit by a rattlesnake in the woods, than I am in a restaurant.

You want to explain to me how this fact somehow justifies you bringing a rattlesnake into a restaurant?

Is it like a "good rattlesnake vs bad rattlesnake" thing?

Mojo is a gun owner who is against people carrying guns in public for protection.

Here's why rational people laugh at folks like you and your silly arguments.

You babble on and on about how much more likely we are to be killed on the open road than we are in public places - yet those SAME public places are so dangerous that you need to carry a loaded gun for protection.

Do you really expect anyone to take you seriously?

 

[NavyLCDR]

Like perhaps these "good people"?

Michael Dewayne Bowman of Georgia
Jason Kenneth Hamilton of Idaho
Michael Hrnciar of Indiana
Shawn Bryan of New York
Ashford Thompson of Ohio
Richard Poplawski of Pennsylvania
Christina Korbe of Pennsylvania
Michael Donovan Oswald of South Carolina
Randy Gilbert Newberry of Virginia

Google them up, and tell us how much safer they made the world.

And those are just CC's who murdered cops.

Since there have been over 670 people murdered by CC's in the last 7 years, it may be time for you to reconsider what constitutes "good people" in your mind, because CC permits don't get it.

So what do you do to protect yourself from the evil concealed carry permit people committing murder and mayhem, practice quick draw on your cell phone, dialing 911 and hoping the police will come fast enough to save you?

 

[CharlesMorrison]

Don't even bother with mojo raisins ....

The stench of Brady Troll is over powering....

Link Removed

 

[NavyLCDR]

In fact, I recently disposed of a Titan .25 automatic because it would randomly empty the clip simply by releasing the slide to chamber a cartridge.

So, what you are saying is that we need to keep guns out of restaurants and crowded public places in order to protect us from guns like yours that are already illegal to possess anywhere? Typical anti-gun thinking - the prohibitive laws that we already have are never enough for you, in your case you won't stop until it's illegal to carry guns in public period and nobody except the police will have the ability to defend themselves against the criminals who will still have their guns, you know, because police officers' lives are so much more worth defending than us common Joe Citizens.

 

[mojo risin]

So, what you are saying is that we need to keep guns out of restaurants and crowded public places in order to protect us from guns like yours that are already illegal to possess anywhere?

I don't know how to break this to you, but like my other firearms my Titan was registered - there was nothing illegal about it.

Typical anti-gun thinking - the prohibitive laws that we already have are never enough for you, in your case you won't stop until it's illegal to carry guns in public period

<yawn>

Let me help you again.

A straw man is a common type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on the misrepresentation of an opponent's argument. To be successful, a straw man argument requires that the audience be ignorant or uninformed of the original argument.
The so-called typical "attacking a straw man" argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition by covertly replacing it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man") and then to refute or defeat that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the original proposition.

See, I'm actually starting to feel sorry for you.

And while I realize you have the requisite ignorant and uninformed audience - as Chuck clearly illustrates - I'd rather you not embarrass yourself any further by employing a tactic that most rational folks consider an incredible sign of weakness.

Having read some of your other posts, I know you are capable of articulate discussion - don't blow it by playing silly games.

Oh, and Chuck...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States

What a dolt.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I don't know how to break this to you, but like my other firearms my Titan was registered - there was nothing illegal about it.

You mean registered as a machine gun? Before 1986 when the Federal government closed the machine gun registry? It is better that people think you to be a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

In fact, I recently disposed of a Titan .25 automatic because it would randomly empty the clip simply by releasing the slide to chamber a cartridge.

You see, your Titan .25 became a machinegun the first time it fired more than 1 round with a single action of the trigger:

26 U.S. Code § 5845 - Definitions | LII / Legal Information Institute

"(b) Machinegun
The term “machinegun” means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger."

Therefore, the first time your Titan fired more than 1 round by a single function of the trigger in your presence you knowingly came into possession of an unregistered machinegun in violation of the National Firearms Act of 1934.

David Olofson got 30 months in the slammer when he transferred his "unregistered machinegun", an AR-15 that also malfunctioned and fired more than 1 round with a single action of the trigger:
Prison term for ?broken gun? case ends

 

[vernsimpson]

The more MoJo posts the more he shows his lack of knowledge on guns. IF he does own a gun I doubt that it is legal! I question his post about his Titan! How many times did it empty it's "clip"?? Before he got rid of it!

Interesting of his use of words about guns! To save band width we should all put him on our "Ignore List"!!

 

[NavyLCDR]

To save band width we should all put him on our "Ignore List"!!

I tried that with a couple other people but I could not resist peeking at what stupidity was in the ignored posts so I gave up on it. The fact that he lives in one of the few places where gun registration is even possible explains why he is so afraid of people carrying guns in public - he is just a mindless product of his environment.