Warbirds
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Please read posts #68, #70, #72, #76, and #79?
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Where is the NRA?
- Thread starter njsportsman
- Start date
Please read posts #68, #70, #72, #76, and #79?
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Firefighterchen
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Is that a question? No thanks I'm good.
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Warbirds
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In reference to you, this has got to be the most accurate thing I have ever posted.
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BluesStringer
Les Brers
Now then, we've established with no reasonable doubt that Sen. Thomas J. Dodd acquired copies of the NWL38 that he had wide open access to while in Germany as a prosecutor and investigator at the Nuremberg Trials between 1945 and 1946, and that all but one gun control provision from NWL38 made it into GCA68, which Dodd not only authored, but he Chaired the committee that allowed that Nazi piece of trash to get to the Floor for a full Senate vote to begin with.
I make no claim here that the N R A had any knowledge of the Nazi origins of GCA68, but I will prove with their upper-echelon officials' own words that they supported its passage, even to the point of seemingly bragging about it to their members in two different issues of their magazine, The American Rifleman. This will be easy because I've written about it before. But I did find another writer who connects the dots more succinctly than I have before, so I'm going to excerpt from this posting on "Keep and Bear Arms.com." The author uses the exact same source material that I have in the past, they just put it together differently than I have, so here's some fresh, new prose for y'all's enjoyment: LOL
I break here to quote myself from this post almost a year ago in which I prove the veracity of the quote from The American Rifleman made above. Another poster in that thread suggested someone actually buy the issue that's quoted. I thought that was a good idea, so I bought it from an auction site, plus another one from later in the year with more uber-gun-control speak in it. Anyway, here's the scans of P. 22 referenced above:
So back to Keep and Bear Arms.com's piece:
"The NRA supported The Federal Firearms Act of 1938, which regulates interstate and foreign commerce in firearms and pistol or revolver ammunition..." (P. 22)
The term "interstate commerce" is the BATF's fundamental justification for its firearms branch — a "color of law" excuse for the many Link Removed they've conducted.
"The NRA supported the original 'Dodd Bill' to amend the Federal Firearms Act in regard to handguns when it was introduced as S.1975 in August, 1963. Among its provisions was the requirement that a purchaser submit a notarized statement to the shipper that he was over 18 and not legally disqualified from possessing a handgun." (P. 22)
That's one form of registration.
"In January, 1965, with the continued support of the NRA, Senator Dodd introduced an amended version of his first bill, now designated 5.14 and expanded to cover rifles and shotguns as well as handguns." (P. 22)
"b. providing for notification of local police of prospective sales;"
Wait a week to exercise your inalienable rights.
"f. increasing penalties for violation." (P. 22-23)
Oops, now we're all the way up to 1999 with the N R A selling us out for gun free zones and Project Exile.
So all through the several laws that Dodd and others proposed during the years leading up to the March, 1968 Edition of The American Rifleman, the N R A was using its own voice from the pages of that rag to brag about supporting registration schemes, age limits, prohibitions on interstate sales, people registration through requirements of making one's self known to cop-shops if they own or acquire guns..... and even that is just a partial list. We already know that Dodd had his own copy of NWL38, and evidence supports that he spoke and could read German (discussed at the JPFO link), so even if he didn't have the Nazi law translated yet by the Library of Congress, his inspiration for new American gun control clearly came from that law, and the N R A supported all of it - and bragged about it.
GCA68 was signed into law by LBJ on October 22, 1968. It passed the House July 24, 1968, and the Senate September 18, 1968. Obviously, debates, in which the N R A participated as witnesses, took place before those votes in Congress took place. In the October, 1968 issue of The American Rifleman, obviously written days or weeks before LBJ's signing ceremony, these things were published:
Is there any logical way to read that quote, written or uttered sometime after the debates, and likely after the votes in both houses of Congress, and conclude that GCA68 wasn't included in Mr. Orth's expression of support for "workable....gun control legislation" since the N R A's inception?
I sincerely did not expect this to get so long, nor did I expect to not be done before this time in the evening, but I'm spent and will have to pick this up tomorrow. Sorry, life happens.
Blues
I make no claim here that the N R A had any knowledge of the Nazi origins of GCA68, but I will prove with their upper-echelon officials' own words that they supported its passage, even to the point of seemingly bragging about it to their members in two different issues of their magazine, The American Rifleman. This will be easy because I've written about it before. But I did find another writer who connects the dots more succinctly than I have before, so I'm going to excerpt from this posting on "Keep and Bear Arms.com." The author uses the exact same source material that I have in the past, they just put it together differently than I have, so here's some fresh, new prose for y'all's enjoyment: LOL
KeepAndBearArms.com — The National Rifle Association has been called "the largest and oldest gun control organization in America" by more than a few gun owners. A fair amount of evidence supports their claim.
As the Gun Control Act of 1968 was nearing the President's desk, NRA was being accused by Senator Robert Kennedy (D-NY) of not supporting "any legislation to try and control the misuse of rifles and pistols in this country." Naturally, NRA needed to respond to the allegation, and they responded with great detail and unusual candor.
To deflect Senator Kennedy's assertion, NRA published an article by their magazine's Associate Editor entitled "WHERE THE NRA STANDS ON GUN LEGISLATION" — elaborating at length about NRA's longstanding support for a wide variety of gun controls that included gun and gunowner registration, waiting periods, age restrictions, licenses for carrying a firearm or having a firearm in your vehicle, increased penalties for violating gun laws, regulating ammunition and more.
Following are several telling quotes from the March 1968 American Rifleman — NRA's premier magazine, then and now — and brief analysis of a few of them. The complete article from which these quotes were taken can be found further below. Scanned images of this article are also linked below.
First, let's clear up the matter of NRA's support of NFA'34:
As the Gun Control Act of 1968 was nearing the President's desk, NRA was being accused by Senator Robert Kennedy (D-NY) of not supporting "any legislation to try and control the misuse of rifles and pistols in this country." Naturally, NRA needed to respond to the allegation, and they responded with great detail and unusual candor.
To deflect Senator Kennedy's assertion, NRA published an article by their magazine's Associate Editor entitled "WHERE THE NRA STANDS ON GUN LEGISLATION" — elaborating at length about NRA's longstanding support for a wide variety of gun controls that included gun and gunowner registration, waiting periods, age restrictions, licenses for carrying a firearm or having a firearm in your vehicle, increased penalties for violating gun laws, regulating ammunition and more.
Following are several telling quotes from the March 1968 American Rifleman — NRA's premier magazine, then and now — and brief analysis of a few of them. The complete article from which these quotes were taken can be found further below. Scanned images of this article are also linked below.
First, let's clear up the matter of NRA's support of NFA'34:
"The NRA supported The National Firearms Act of 1934 which taxes and requires registration of such firearms as machine guns, sawed-off rifles and sawed-off shotguns. ... NRA support of Federal gun legislation did not stop with the earlier Dodd bills. It currently backs several Senate and House bills which, through amendment, would put new teeth into the National and Federal Firearms Acts." —American Rifleman, March 1968, P. 22
I break here to quote myself from this post almost a year ago in which I prove the veracity of the quote from The American Rifleman made above. Another poster in that thread suggested someone actually buy the issue that's quoted. I thought that was a good idea, so I bought it from an auction site, plus another one from later in the year with more uber-gun-control speak in it. Anyway, here's the scans of P. 22 referenced above:
So back to Keep and Bear Arms.com's piece:
The "Dodd" to which the above quote refers is the late Senator Thomas J. Dodd. Senator Dodd Link Removed, applied the underlying principles to the Gun Control Act of 1968, and took a leading role in getting the bill signed into federal law.
"The NRA supported The Federal Firearms Act of 1938, which regulates interstate and foreign commerce in firearms and pistol or revolver ammunition..." (P. 22)
The term "interstate commerce" is the BATF's fundamental justification for its firearms branch — a "color of law" excuse for the many Link Removed they've conducted.
"The NRA supported the original 'Dodd Bill' to amend the Federal Firearms Act in regard to handguns when it was introduced as S.1975 in August, 1963. Among its provisions was the requirement that a purchaser submit a notarized statement to the shipper that he was over 18 and not legally disqualified from possessing a handgun." (P. 22)
That's one form of registration.
"In January, 1965, with the continued support of the NRA, Senator Dodd introduced an amended version of his first bill, now designated 5.14 and expanded to cover rifles and shotguns as well as handguns." (P. 22)
That's an extension of one form of registration to all types of guns not already under registration schemes at the time.
In order to "put new teeth into the National and Federal Firearms Acts," NRA management also pressed the federal government, in 1968, to:
In order to "put new teeth into the National and Federal Firearms Acts," NRA management also pressed the federal government, in 1968, to:
"Regulate the movement of handguns in interstate and foreign commerce by:
"a. requiring a sworn statement, containing certain information, from the purchaser to the seller for the receipt of a handgun in interstate commerce;"
"a. requiring a sworn statement, containing certain information, from the purchaser to the seller for the receipt of a handgun in interstate commerce;"
That's a registration list.
"b. providing for notification of local police of prospective sales;"
That's another registration mechanism.
"c. requiring an additional 7-day waiting period by the seller after receipt of acknowledgement of notification to local police;"
Wait a week to exercise your inalienable rights.
"d. prescribing a minimum age of 21 for obtaining a license to sell firearms and increasing the license fees;"
That is called Age Discrimination. In essence, in 1968, the NRA was saying "You can go die over in Vietnam for your country at age 18, but you can't sell a constitutionally protected item to your own neighbors for three more years."
"e. providing for written notification by manufacturer or dealer to carrier that a firearm is being shipped in interstate commerce;"
"Carrier" includes the U.S. Postal Service — another ripe opportunity for the federal government to collect names of gun buyers.
"f. increasing penalties for violation." (P. 22-23)
What do you think America's Founders would say about the NRA calling for "increasing penalties for violation" of unconstitutional gun laws?
At least as early as 1930, the NRA supported:
"...requir[ing] the purchaser of a pistol to give information about himself which is submitted by the seller to local police authorities..."
Historically noteworthy is the fact that the Germans were simultaneously doing the same thing, laying the groundwork for a Hitler to happen.
and
"...requir[ing] a license to carry a pistol concealed on one's person or in a vehicle..." [emphasis mine]
Ever heard of a license to carry a firearm in a vehicle? NRA has — over 70 years ago.
Not only has NRA management long supported gun owner registration, they've worked hard for it and still do. And NRA's current management still supports "penalties" for exercising your rights, which they now call "zero tolerance enforcement". (See Link Removed and the Link Removed for more information.)
At least as early as 1930, the NRA supported:
"...requir[ing] the purchaser of a pistol to give information about himself which is submitted by the seller to local police authorities..."
Historically noteworthy is the fact that the Germans were simultaneously doing the same thing, laying the groundwork for a Hitler to happen.
and
"...requir[ing] a license to carry a pistol concealed on one's person or in a vehicle..." [emphasis mine]
Ever heard of a license to carry a firearm in a vehicle? NRA has — over 70 years ago.
Not only has NRA management long supported gun owner registration, they've worked hard for it and still do. And NRA's current management still supports "penalties" for exercising your rights, which they now call "zero tolerance enforcement". (See Link Removed and the Link Removed for more information.)
"Many other instances of NRA support for worthwhile gun legislation could be quoted. But these suffice to show that Senator Kennedy's 'terrible indictment' of the NRA is groundless." (P. 23)
The "terrible indictment" of NRA, as you will see in the full text below, was that NRA didn't support gun control. NRA set that matter straight with a loud thud. NRA Management still to this day supports a wide variety of ever-complex gun controls. And despite taking in hundreds of millions of dollars a year, they've still never managed a Supreme Court court victory based on the Second Amendment's historically-valid "individual right" argument. It's no wonder — their version of the Second Amendment is different than that of America's Founding Fathers.
Do notice the subtitle of NRA's 1968 article below. A "97-year record" of supporting gun control, to NRA's management, was a matter of pride. Some things never change:
Do notice the subtitle of NRA's 1968 article below. A "97-year record" of supporting gun control, to NRA's management, was a matter of pride. Some things never change:
"We think it's reasonable to support the federal Gun-Free School Zones Act. ... We think it's reasonable to expect full enforcement of federal firearms laws by the federal government. ... That's why we support Link Removed -- the fierce prosecution of federal gun laws...we think it's reasonable because it works. ... We only support what works and our list is proud."
—NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre
Congressional Testimony, May 27, 1999
Hearing Before 106th Congress
House of Representatives
Committee On The Judiciary
Subcommittee On Crime
First Session
(source)
—NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre
Congressional Testimony, May 27, 1999
Hearing Before 106th Congress
House of Representatives
Committee On The Judiciary
Subcommittee On Crime
First Session
(source)
Oops, now we're all the way up to 1999 with the N R A selling us out for gun free zones and Project Exile.
So all through the several laws that Dodd and others proposed during the years leading up to the March, 1968 Edition of The American Rifleman, the N R A was using its own voice from the pages of that rag to brag about supporting registration schemes, age limits, prohibitions on interstate sales, people registration through requirements of making one's self known to cop-shops if they own or acquire guns..... and even that is just a partial list. We already know that Dodd had his own copy of NWL38, and evidence supports that he spoke and could read German (discussed at the JPFO link), so even if he didn't have the Nazi law translated yet by the Library of Congress, his inspiration for new American gun control clearly came from that law, and the N R A supported all of it - and bragged about it.
GCA68 was signed into law by LBJ on October 22, 1968. It passed the House July 24, 1968, and the Senate September 18, 1968. Obviously, debates, in which the N R A participated as witnesses, took place before those votes in Congress took place. In the October, 1968 issue of The American Rifleman, obviously written days or weeks before LBJ's signing ceremony, these things were published:
Is there any logical way to read that quote, written or uttered sometime after the debates, and likely after the votes in both houses of Congress, and conclude that GCA68 wasn't included in Mr. Orth's expression of support for "workable....gun control legislation" since the N R A's inception?
I sincerely did not expect this to get so long, nor did I expect to not be done before this time in the evening, but I'm spent and will have to pick this up tomorrow. Sorry, life happens.
Blues
Warbirds
New member
I'm going to submit this to Huffington post and mothers against gun violence and mayors against illegal guns and see if I can get him published.
Edit
Does anyone think he has spent as much time fighting for gun rights in New Jersey as he did writing this?
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Firefighterchen
OC for Tactical Advantage
Oh hey look...looks like I missed that I'm not alone in writing off New Jersey.
Nor am I alone that California is a losing state.
Actually this is the most accurate piece of projection you posted.
Do you hear that? ...crickets...just like the last time you asked "anyone" what they thought...I guess no one cares about what you ask beyond me. I care, so I'll answer, yes I do think he has spent as much time, have you?
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Warbirds
New member
Other than pointing out that you responded....
which again proves this.
And how accurate that statement really turned out to be.
I guess you don't recognize apathy when you see it. With a smidge of mocking.
Firefighterchen
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Warbirds
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Firefighterchen
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Aka insulting like a child
taking tips from your daughter? Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app
Firefighterchen
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Warbirds
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Firefighterchen
OC for Tactical Advantage
Yeah I got it 20 somethin posts ago. I get it, I know what projection is. Your self esteem is so low you have to get the last word in. Even if that message makes you look like you have Alzheimer's.
The more I think about it, your "man crush" comment was also projection. I'm sorry bud, but I'm married, you can't have me.
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Warbirds
New member
Apparently you didn't.
Please read above mentioned posts.
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Firefighterchen
OC for Tactical Advantage
Refer to post #93 since #94 was another super insightful post. Put in BOLD and ITALICS because it makes it super important?
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Warbirds
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Firefighterchen
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Warbirds
New member
Phase read posts that predicted your sad need to get last word.
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Firefighterchen
OC for Tactical Advantage
Uh oh, somebody's getting even more lazy...I'll fix your post for you. Bolded like a boss.
Actually your post accused me of it, not predicted it, but if you want a word with a "p"...use the one I gave you, it's called projection, and it fits you way better. If you don't like "p" we could also use the word irony.
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Warbirds
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Please read posts #68, #70, #72, #76, and #79.
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