What to do after a self defense shooting?


retiredman

New member
The Legislature hereby recognizes that the citizens of the State of Oklahoma have a right to expect absolute safety within their own homes.

A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:
1. The person against whom the defensive force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against the will of that person from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle; and
2. The person who uses defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred.

The key word in Oklahoma is Reasonable fear of loss of life or great bodily harm for defense.



A person who uses force, as permitted pursuant to the provisions of subsections B and D of this section, is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes charging or prosecuting the defendant. Guess I'll stay here in Oklahoma!
 

TekGreg

New member
I literally just talked to an attorney about this very thing. He is my counsel for any gun-related incident. This is the advice he gave me...and you're getting it for free!

If you are holding the BG at gunpoint, tell the 911 operator that the assailant is down and the victim has him at gunpoint. Give a description of the victim (yourself - height, weight, clothes, gun type).

If BG is incapacitated, move away from BG but DON'T LEAVE SCENE! Holster weapon. Tell the 911 operator that assailant is down and may need medical assistance. Also tell 911 operator that all firearms are put away. Again, describe the victim (yourself).

When police arrive, COMPLY WITH ALL COMMANDS. Even if an officer tells you to lay on the ground and cuffs you. Surrender your weapon. Only answer the most basic questions, and you may do those by handing them or having them retrieve your driver's license. Name, Address, phone number.

DO NOT ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THE ENCOUNTER, THE TIME BEFORE OR AFTER IT. Not why you were there, what happened, what the BG said, how many shots you fired, NOTHING. No matter how right you think you are and how innocent you think the question is, YOU ARE WRONG. If the officer asks you what color jacket the BG was wearing, and you LOOK at the BG and see a BLUE jacket, refuse to answer.

The proper, respectful, POLITE answer to all questions is, "I will be more than happy to cooperate with your investigation, but I do not feel I should answer any questions before speaking to my counsel. Please contact him. His name is Mr. _____________ and his phone number is _____________. Here is his card." If a different officer, or even the same officer asks you another question, you state even more respectfully and more properly, "As I told the other officer, (or "As I told you before") I will be more than happy to cooperate with your investigation, but I do not feel I should answer any questions before speaking to my counsel. Please contact him. His name is Mr. _____________ and his phone number is _____________. Here is his card."

Never seem rattled or annoyed by their questions. They may be trying to rattle you, but they may also be confused and lost on their first shooting case. The duplicate questioning may be innocent. Just remain cooperative, friendly, respectful and polite so those are the only words EVERY police officer can use with the Jury, Grand Jury, Attorney General, and all the others that are going to decide far ahead of time whether or not to charge you with a crime.

As soon as they allow you, call your attorney and give him a quick, concise breakdown of the shooting and where you are being held. Do not let the police hear ANY of your conversation with your attorney and assume the line is bugged, so no admissions of guilt like, "I don't think he actually drew his gun" or other self-incriminations like that. Wait until you and your attorney are together and he tells you the two of you are completely secure.

Do EVERYTHING your attorney tells you to do and NOTHING he doesn't specifically tell you to do. Do not get creative and think for yourself - you will screw up his defense of you! If you have an idea for your defense, call your attorney. By state law, you are ALWAYS allowed calls to your attorney when regarding your defense.

The end.
----------------------------------------------------

This is the end of the attorney advice, but I have a related story that will always cement this advice in my head as the way to do it and the things that can go wrong with police involvement at the scene.

My car was down at one point with a major repair that had it in the shop for a couple of weeks, so I was borrowing my father-in-law's Honda hatchback. A contractor with all of his attention on his cell phone and none on the road changed lanes and ran me off the road and head on into a parked car. A secretary on her way to lunch and my Wife in the passenger seat both witnessed the entire event. I called police to have a proper report for the insurance company.

The female officer that arrived didn't believe that I had been run off the road by a contractor's oversized white pickup because there were no signs on my vehicle of where it struck me. I explained I kept moving over to get out of his way until I couldn't move over any more and BAM!! Into the parked car - just ask my witnesses. Then the officer said, "You didn't even try to stop...there are no skid marks." By this point my Wife is getting madder and madder at the insolence of this officer. She gets out of our wrecked vehicle, stomps over between our hatchback and the officer's service mini-pickup, points to the ground and says, "You mean the skid marks you parked right on top of???" She scowled at the officer, frozen in the pointing stance...the officer spins on her heals to go talk to the other witness.

When the officer came back, I had to argue with her for 30 minutes before she finally said, "Well, I don't see it the way you say it happened, but I'll write it up that way." When I got the report a couple of weeks later, even with two unimpeachable witnesses, it was full of "supposedly's" and "allegedly's" to make it sound like everything out of my mouth was a G___ D___ Lie. The Insurance Co. paid and I got on with life, but when it happened, all I could think about was the horror of telling my FIL that I had totalled the car he let me borrow. Then I was basically psychologically tortured by this officer who chose to ignore the evidence, the witnesses and the fact that I had no criminal record, did no drugs or alcohol and had no reason to lie... as did all of the witnesses.

This incident was one officer with a minor traffic accident and had nothing to do with my LIFE. Imagine if this travesty had been a dozen investigators, Lieutenants, Captains, a dead body against me, my gun and my CCW. Doesn't it make you shudder???
 

RichFL

New member
If you are a retired LEO, I recommend you find out if you qualify for coverage under the Peace Officer of Research Association of California's Legal Defense Fund. Link Removed. For a total of $72/year this is unbelievable coverage. It is a nationwide program, not limited to California.
 

liquidr1

New member
My CCW instructor was a retired city police officer. He instructed us to say "I shot the attacker only to stop the imminent threat of death to my life". NOTHING MORE until your lawer is present.

This gives the cops the jist of what has just went down and puts the burden on them to prove or disprove your inocence.

I dont agree with telling the cops that "i shot the attacker" part. I would feel more comfortable with saying "I defended myselft agains an eminent threat of death or great bodily harm" and then call lawyer.
 

BC1

,
There is some good info on this subject found in the book Link Removed. Generally...

When speaking to 911 DO NOT give an account of the incident. Just request police and medical personnel. Say nothing other than I was attacked and had to defend myself. Describe what you're wearing to the dispatcher to avoid confusion when the police arrive. DO NOT answer the dis[patcher's questions.

When police arrive make sure you are unarmed. Unloaded and clear if safe to do so. Sty away from your gun. Tell police the same thing... you were attacked violently, were in fear for your life and felt you had to defend yourself. Say nothing else. Respectfully request police allow you to speak with an attorney after which you will provide a complete and thorough statement. DO NOT answer anymore questions no matter what they say.

Anything you say or do will be considered by a grand jury when deciding whether or not to charge you. There are phsychological reactions to defending your self that may cause you to say the wrong thing. Lawyer-up and shut-up.

Expect you may be arrested and lose your guns until the incident is sorted out.
 

mike1956

New member
From pages 86-87 of the fourth edition of "The Ohio Guide to Firearms Laws" by Ken Hanson, Attorney-at-Law:

"What to do After a Shooting"

1) Call the police
2) Clearly state your name, and your phone number
3) Inform the dispatcher that you are a (CHL) (armed homeowner)
4) State that someone attached you with lethal force, or was about to attack you with lethal force and you had no choice but to stop them (whichever applies)
5) State that you were in fear for your (your family's) life and the only thing you could do to stop the attack was to shoot the attacker.
6) Request that they dispatch the police and emergency medical services
7) Tell the dispatcher that you are now putting the phone down but won't hang up.
8) Put the phone down, regardless of what the dispatcher is saying/asking. Remember a tape recorder is running and will record any comments after this point.
9) When the police arrive, if you cannot safely communicate with the police directly, pick the phone back up and communicated with the dispatcher.
10) Whether you are talking to the police or the dispatcher, identify yourself, where you are, what you are wearing, and similarly identify any other good guys present.
11) Whether you are talking directly to the police or the dispatcher, identify any other bad guys present, or identify that you do not know if any other bad guys are present.
12) Follow all the directions of the police officer on the scene.
13) Once the scene is secure, request any medical attention you or your family needs and then state you cannot discuss the incident any further until your attorney is present. Make sure any other family member knows to do this, as you cannot invoke their right to counsel, they must invoke it.
14) Ask that you be allowed to contact your attorney, or have them contact your attorney on your behalf.
15) KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT
 

kelcarry

New member
Read what local girl says and look at the video. Listen to just about what everyone else had to say. After you call 911 with brief facts as many have said, you say nothing, nada, no mas etal. You only talk to a lawyer (PS: it is counsel not council just for the record). The classic point in the video is when you are questioned not so much bcause you were involved in a shooting but just because you are on the list of people to question on a situation--they ask you if you were involved in the killing and you answer "I did not shoot anyone". The LEO now wants to know how you know it was a shooting when all he asked you was about a killing---NOW YOU ARE ON THE HOOK FOR A POTENTIAL LIE AND ARE A REAL SUSPECT, WHEN ALL YOU DID IS OFFER THE TRUTH. When the police arrive they are not there to protect you anymore--you did that for yourself. They are INVESTIGATING AND YOU ARE THE OBVIOUS PERSON UNDER INVESTIGATION--GET IT THRU YOUR HEAD THAT YOU ARE NOW THE SUSPECT REGARDLESS OF WHAT HAPPENED.
 

Lowjiber

New member
If there are no witnesses to my self-defense shooting, I intend to have a cup of coffee and a cigarette and then mosey over to the phone to dial 911.
 

tuts40

New member
"I am at ___________ and I was just attacked, he tried to kill me! Send an ambulance! I was forced to defend my life. If the attacker survives I want to press charges so send the police also".

Something like that make anyone grimmace?

What say you about practicing saying those words out load over and over and over at the range after practicing drawing/shooting, so as to be used to saying them?
 

GOV5

New member
If there are no witnesses to my self-defense shooting, I intend to have a cup of coffee and a cigarette and then mosey over to the phone to dial 911.

I have a question about self defense with a different twist. On another forum, a guy said he was the victim of an armed kidnapping attempt. He struggled with the attacker, wrestling the gun away from him, and shoot the attacker in the leg. The attacker then kept fighting with him, "trying to blind him" ( as the victim stated). The victim finally got the attacker on the ground at gunpoint, and called the police. He said "NEVER AGAIN!" .

I replied to him and said why did you call the police? Why didn't you just shoot him until he quit moving? After you were sure he was no more a threat to you, just leave. Let someone else call the police. Then dispose of the gun. I wanted to get a spirited debate going. LOL!

But, what would happen if someone actually did that? Do you have a legal obligation to call police? If not, why put yourself in a situation where you would be subject to making a bunch of statements that could be turned around against you?

I know the law about how to handle this situation is probably different in each state, but in this situation, you weren't the one originally with the gun. You were attacked by an armed assailant. Interesting twist, isn't it? I really don't know the answer. That's why I posted the question here. It just got me thinking, why is the FIRST thought to call the police?

Now, this scenario is where there are no other people but YOU and the assailant there. No witnesses anywhere to be seen, that you are aware of to be seen.
 

PaxMentis

New member
Yes, you have a legal obligation to notify police...in every jurisdiction where I have worked or lived, and I seriously doubt there are any exceptions in the USA.

Not only will failure to notify the police result in prosecution for that crime if you are identified (which is highly likely), your failure to do so can be considered "flight" and used as evidence of a "guilty mind" should you be charged with the shooting.

If you advocate law abiding citizens retaining the right to self defense, it is incumbent on you to abide by the laws that govern the situation...
 

Providence Ranch

New member
"I am at ___________ and I was just attacked, he tried to kill me! Send an ambulance! I was forced to defend my life. If the attacker survives I want to press charges so send the police also".

Something like that make anyone grimmace?

What say you about practicing saying those words out load over and over and over at the range after practicing drawing/shooting, so as to be used to saying them?

Thank for finally saying it. Lots of good information here, but no one mentioned pressing charges on the assailant(s). This is important as it help to keep everyone clear as to who the bad guy is.

Also, regarding providing medical assistance to the BG, Id just like to throw in my $0.02. DON'T!!! Don't even get close! Back off, or remove yourself to a safer location if you must. Even if you are a medical professional, don't do it. Here's why:

A. You render aid and the assailant becomes aggressive again, requiring you to shoot again. Now the guy is dead, instead of just injured. In court, you will have aggravated the situation.

B. You render aid and the assailant dies anyway. In court, you aggravated the injuries, causing death, and your motives will be suspect because you just moments before dealt life-threatening injury.

C. You render aid and the assailant survives. Now in court you must explain why this person who was a threat a moment before is no longer a threat to you.

D. You render aid and the assailant becomes aggressive again. You are injured or killed.

Personally, I cannot think of a single positive outcome to giving first aid to an assailant you just shot.

Call 911 when you are in a safe location. Tell tell them your name, your location, what you are wearing. Tell them you were attacked and were forced to defend yourself. Tell them where the bad guy is, or where you last saw him. Ask them to send police and an ambulance. Then stay on the line but say nothing more until LEOs arrive. Do not touch the BG, do not disturb the crime scene at all! Do not pick up mags or anything else you may have dropped. Leave everything exactly as it was the moment the threat was gone. And then, remain calm. Witnesses will be watching you, and will relay anything you say or do to police. Cooperate fully when LEOs arrive, do what is ordered promptly and courteously. Even if they tell you to drop that pretty little Kimber on the ground and kick it away. Do it. Point out potential witnesses they should question. Insist on calling an attorney prior to answering any questions or consenting to any searches.
 

GOV5

New member
Prosecution of what crime? And how will the police know to prosecute if no one is around? And you never lose your right to self-defense.
 

PaxMentis

New member
Prosecution of what crime? And how will the police know to prosecute if no one is around? And you never lose your right to self-defense.

You go with that theory...

Just like a lot of the people populating our maximum security prisons.
 

GOV5

New member
All of this assumes you are in a state that doesn't protect you from criminal or civil action for using self defense.
 

GOV5

New member
You go with that theory...

Just like a lot of the people populating our maximum security prisons.

ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No kidding, what is the crime here?

Let me pose another scenario: The guy tries to rob you and is unsuccessful because you fought with him and knocked him out. Would you just walk away, or call the cops? Has a crime been committed? And if so, by whom?
Think about this. Are you SURE you want to call the cops? What if he isn't just "knocked out"? What if you caused a brain bleed and he died? But you didn't know it. Now you have a dead body there, and absolutely NO PROOF the guy tried to rob you. As far as the police are concerned, you had it in for this guy and just beat him to death. Are you still SURE you want to call the cops?
 

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