What if you saw a Law Enforcement Officer in Trouble?

[Ruger357SP101]

You got THAT right.

I would probably try to help. (Yeah, there are bad cops, just as there are 10%'ers everywhere, no matter the profession.)

It could be that it would turn around and bite me, like many posters have alluded to in this thread.

But, if you have a "white knight" complex like I do/did (Why I served my Country for 20 years), I could not just turn away and live with myself afterwards.

If we pretend to be on the side of the "good guys", then you are on the team. The miliitary does NOT tolerate folks who will let their teammates down on the field of battle, whether you "like" them or no makes no difference.

Better a convicted felon or dead than to callously "nit pick" on those who I would or would NOT help.

Besides, for the most part, the reaction you take is mostly instinct..... Planning is only allowed when you have the time for it. Most "encounters" happen too fast to have time to think about it.

Thus, for many posters here..... I can see that they would not be persons I would want on my six if the offal hit the revolving bladed cooling device.

Old Marine saying: If I can't trust you, ******* you.

GG

Back in the mid 80s I was hanging out with a friend one night when we are confronted by 4 or 5 thug boys up on campus here in town.
Theres no way we're going anywhere....or so I thought. I turn around and my friend is gone. I mean GONE.
Had it not been for my fairly aggressive personality causing some serious doubts in these guys I have no doubt theyd have thrashed me to within an inch of my life.
Later that evening after I tracked my panzy friend down again we were heading back to the car and he tries to start a fight with some damned women :sarcastic:
I dont think I know anyone who I could trust behind me other than my wife and sisters.

 

[FN1910]

After 15 pages of this thread we probably need to look back at the original question to see how we have done on this. I don't know but I take it that the OP was in reference to at least the Internet posts that some people give the impression that if they saw a LEO in trouble their dislike for LEO would cause them to sit back and cheer for the other guy. Are you such a person that your hatred for cops is that you would refuse to help one no matter what. I think this thread says that most of us would treat a LEO just like anyone else when in trouble. First of all know what you are getting into and don't try to be a hero without thinking. There are some bad cops just like in any other group of people including gun owners and members of this forum. But there are a lot of good cops and all are people. Be safe and know what you are doing when you get involved in anything.

 

[Axeanda45]

After 15 pages of this thread we probably need to look back at the original question to see how we have done on this. I don't know but I take it that the OP was in reference to at least the Internet posts that some people give the impression that if they saw a LEO in trouble their dislike for LEO would cause them to sit back and cheer for the other guy. Are you such a person that your hatred for cops is that you would refuse to help one no matter what. I think this thread says that most of us would treat a LEO just like anyone else when in trouble. First of all know what you are getting into and don't try to be a hero without thinking. There are some bad cops just like in any other group of people including gun owners and members of this forum. But there are a lot of good cops and all are people. Be safe and know what you are doing when you get involved in anything.

So, in your stated opinion, Those whose life experience with the police have taught them NOT TO TRUST POLICE AT ALL, EVER... are now cheering for the other person? That is a pretty big leap there bud, way to throw everyone who you disagree with under the bus..... Not everyone who said they wouldnt get involved "hate" cops either...

Perhaps you would be cheering for one side or the other, but not all of the posters have said anything like that...

If you go back and read through all of my posts in this thread, it will be shown that I, for one, do not "cheer" for either side... I simply do not know if I will interfere/get involved when I dont know the cop personally, or wasnt at the altercation/situation from the beginning and as such, would have no proof of which person is the one that needs help... The one in uniform or the one without.


You also in this post bring up the very tired excuse of "there are good cops and there are bad cops"... I ask you this simple question.... if there are SOOOOO many "good" cops, why dont they do the job they are so "good" at, and arrest the "bad" cops? Their silence and inaction make the "good" ones JUST AS GUILTY/BAD as the "bad" ones. Any argument to the contrary is false and you know it......

 

[Dutch1911]

Yes, absolutely!
However you will be questioned and likely treated like a suspect. So, be prepared to holster your weapon immediately and follow directions to a T!
Regardless of how uncomfortable you are during the take down. Understand they are coming to the aid of an officer in distress and don't know anything about you.
It can be risky so be careful.
Dutch1911
1/*

 

[hornett22]

Funny thing.................

everytime I needed the cops their response was " I'm sorry,there is nothing we can do."

I believe that would be my response to them.

I hate to be that way but fair is fair.

Cops are a lot different now that I'm 41 than when I was a kid. When I was a child I had respect for cops. Not so much anymore. Respect is earned but easily lost.

I hate that it's come to this but cops along with most people I deal with have a complete lack of common sense.

 

[fudo]

everytime I needed the cops their response was " I'm sorry,there is nothing we can do."

I believe that would be my response to them.

I hate to be that way but fair is fair.

Cops are a lot different now that I'm 41 than when I was a kid. When I was a child I had respect for cops. Not so much anymore. Respect is earned but easily lost.

I hate that it's come to this but cops along with most people I deal with have a complete lack of common sense.

So, you're saying that it is ok for you to do the same thing that you criticize the police for as "fair."

 

[FN1910]

So, in your stated opinion, Those whose life experience with the police have taught them NOT TO TRUST POLICE AT ALL, EVER... are now cheering for the other person? That is a pretty big leap there bud, way to throw everyone who you disagree with under the bus..... Not everyone who said they wouldnt get involved "hate" cops either...

Perhaps you would be cheering for one side or the other, but not all of the posters have said anything like that...

If you go back and read through all of my posts in this thread, it will be shown that I, for one, do not "cheer" for either side... I simply do not know if I will interfere/get involved when I dont know the cop personally, or wasnt at the altercation/situation from the beginning and as such, would have no proof of which person is the one that needs help... The one in uniform or the one without.


You also in this post bring up the very tired excuse of "there are good cops and there are bad cops"... I ask you this simple question.... if there are SOOOOO many "good" cops, why dont they do the job they are so "good" at, and arrest the "bad" cops? Their silence and inaction make the "good" ones JUST AS GUILTY/BAD as the "bad" ones. Any argument to the contrary is false and you know it......

I simply said that it appears to me that some people would cheer for the BG over a LEO no matter what was going on. You proved it that some would. I stated that I would treat a cop in trouble as I would any other human being but you seem to group all of them into one basket and would sit back and see one get beaten or killed just because he is a LEO. If I saw a cop beating what I knew was an innocent person wrongfully I would also get involved with that. I haven't accused anyone of doing anything other than in a few cases giving the impression that they would cheer for a BG over a LEO. I have no idea if you fall into that category or not but from your response it sounds like I did strike a personal nerve with you about it.

I make no apologizes or retractions about my post. The OP was would you help a LEO in trouble and some people would and others wouldn't. Evidently you are in the group that wouldn't and I am in the group that it wouldn't make any difference if it was a LEO or ordinary citizen.

 

[winnre]

I don't know. I called the cops for a hit and run and for some reason they were upset at me, the victim. They started probing to see if they could arrest me for anything, as if I incited the assault. Then one said they aren't going away without arresting someone.

Since then, I never call cops.

 

[FN1910]

I don't know. I called the cops for a hit and run and for some reason they were upset at me, the victim. They started probing to see if they could arrest me for anything, as if I incited the assault. Then one said they aren't going away without arresting someone.

Since then, I never call cops.

I keep hearing these horror stories about cops and wonder if it is the part of the country that people live in or the person or just what causes these clashes. Several years ago my duaghter called me to tell me that she had been in a wreck and I told her I would be right there is a few minutes. When I got to the scene they had pulled into the parking lot of a store and as I stepped out my daughter called me and I started walking over to her. As I did the cop ran over to me and told me that he saw the whole thing and there was nothing my daughter could do and it wasn't her fault. He was afraid that I was going to go off on her and wanted to get between us. I'll bet that this in the normal reaction he sees when parents arrive at an accident scene where young drivers are involved.

I have never been arrested but have had traffic violations had my cars involved in accidents. I have several friends and relatives that are LEO and I can say that some cops are not as courteous as some others but I can't say that any of my dealings have been less than professional. I can also say that I have seen some cases where if they had beaten the crap out of someone I would not have blamed them and is exactly why I could never be a cop.

Late one drizzly night I left a bar and wound up in an accident. I will admit that it was my fault and there was not a lot I had in my defense. Two cops came to investigate and write it up. They put us both in the back of the squad car to get the information etc. Every other phrase out of the other fellow's mouth was a smart alec response or something to that effect. He would not give a decent answer to any question and would have some remark about everything I said. Finally one of the cops looked at him and said I am going to give you a standing sobriety test and everyone got out of the car but me. The windows were fogged up so I couldn't see what was happening. A few minutes later they put him back in the car and let me out. The cop then hand me my ticket and told me when to appear for court. He also said that they were charging the other fellow with DUI and if he had just behaved himself they would not have done a thing. I am sure the other driver has a story to tell about how the cops mistreated him and made him out to be the BG instead of me and all that kind of stuff. In fact eventually I was summoned to appear at his trial but he pleaded out before trial, my ticked was dismissed and his insurance company paid off. I felt bad for the guy but he just would not keep his mouth shut.

 

[Axeanda45]

FN1910, you stated that some people would "CHEER" when they saw a police officer in trouble.


I saw NO SUCH THING ANYWHERE IN THIS THREAD......

Maybe you are just using the wrong word here to express what you mean....

I take "cheer/cheering" (in this threads context) as jumping up and down in JOY that someone else is getting the stuffing beat out of them........ I have seen nothing of the sort anywhere here..... Please give us an example of such if you see it........

Myself, I find it very saddening (the opposite of cheer) that our police have turned on the public and the vast majority of them are no longer "Peace Officers" but just criminals with badges that get away with things DAILY that us mere "citizens" would be arrested for in a heartbeat if we even thought of doing the same......

 

[Axeanda45]

I keep hearing these horror stories about cops and wonder if it is the part of the country that people live in or the person or just what causes these clashes. Several years ago my duaghter called me to tell me that she had been in a wreck and I told her I would be right there is a few minutes. When I got to the scene they had pulled into the parking lot of a store and as I stepped out my daughter called me and I started walking over to her. As I did the cop ran over to me and told me that he saw the whole thing and there was nothing my daughter could do and it wasn't her fault. He was afraid that I was going to go off on her and wanted to get between us. I'll bet that this in the normal reaction he sees when parents arrive at an accident scene where young drivers are involved.

I have never been arrested but have had traffic violations had my cars involved in accidents. I have several friends and relatives that are LEO and I can say that some cops are not as courteous as some others but I can't say that any of my dealings have been less than professional. I can also say that I have seen some cases where if they had beaten the crap out of someone I would not have blamed them and is exactly why I could never be a cop.

Late one drizzly night I left a bar and wound up in an accident. I will admit that it was my fault and there was not a lot I had in my defense. Two cops came to investigate and write it up. They put us both in the back of the squad car to get the information etc. Every other phrase out of the other fellow's mouth was a smart alec response or something to that effect. He would not give a decent answer to any question and would have some remark about everything I said. Finally one of the cops looked at him and said I am going to give you a standing sobriety test and everyone got out of the car but me. The windows were fogged up so I couldn't see what was happening. A few minutes later they put him back in the car and let me out. The cop then hand me my ticket and told me when to appear for court. He also said that they were charging the other fellow with DUI and if he had just behaved himself they would not have done a thing. I am sure the other driver has a story to tell about how the cops mistreated him and made him out to be the BG instead of me and all that kind of stuff. In fact eventually I was summoned to appear at his trial but he pleaded out before trial, my ticked was dismissed and his insurance company paid off. I felt bad for the guy but he just would not keep his mouth shut.

How does being civil when the cops actually have a valid reason to be there and interacting with you (traffic accident or speeding for an example) compare with say, an open-carrier walking down the street minding his own business.. Breaking NO LAWS and then getting harassed/thrown to the ground/guns drawn on them .... civil rights violated/etc....?

I will answer for you... It does NOT compare......... they are two different things ENTIRELY...... In one, the cops were actually doing what they get paid to do, good for them.... In the other, they were being THUGS.....

I will say this one final time and I am done with this thread (again, lol) If you do not KNOW FOR A FACT who the bad guy is in a situation.... (Hint: it might be the one in uniform) you probably should NOT get involved.

 

[B2Tall]

99% of the people that hate the police are themselves criminals although listening to them they're just "innocent victims" of "police brutality".

In my line of work (bars/nightclubs) I've seen more arrests then I can remember. I've also heard more stories about those arrests than I can remember that differ greatly from what I witnessed with my own eyes. Here's a typical story from a "victim", with what really happened in ():

"So I'm standing on the corner minding my own business (buying drugs) and all of a sudden this cop rushes up and tackles me (while I was running away to evade capture). Then he starts beating on me (after I had kicked and punched him several times in an effort to escape) and they drag me off to the station battered and bloody. Oh yeah, then they planted drugs on me. Lousy fascists...." Yada yada yada

So every time I hear some poor soul tell his or her story about being abused by the police, I always wonder what part they're leaving out of their tall tale.

 

[Hamilton Felix]

Would you like to watch footage of the innocent man fleeing what he thought were thugs in dark clothing, until the cop slams him into a wall and turns him into a vegetable for life?

Link Removed

The cop is still working.

Check out the Seattle cop who came up to a well known local woodcarver, with whom he had past bad blood (after parking his cruiser so the video would not catch his actions), approached the half deaf man (with "walkman" in his good ear) from behind and the side, did not identify himself, called "drop the knife!" 3 times quickly, then opened fire and killed the man who apparently didn't even know he was there. Even a police review couldn't call this one justified, despite the small closed pocketknife the man dropped as he died. But the Prosecutor won't charge him.

Link Removed

I've been around long enough to remember when cops really were the good guys. All of us boys wanted to be cops or firemen because they were the heroes. My best buddy just retired, thoroughly disillusioned, from 30 years as a cop. Times have changed. It really started with the 55 mph NMSL and the proliferation of radar (and greed) in the 70's. It boomed with the drug property forfeiture laws (and greed) of the 80's. Today, many cops are Revenue Collectors, tasked with the forcible transfer of assets from the productive class to the Ruling Class. Black armored SWAT teams shoot family pets, smash doors, terrorize and sometimes kill the Americans inside their houses, and most of the time they hit the "right" homes. I think the attacking SWAT team is perhaps the ultimate horror of the American Police State.

Think about how most people encounter cops: flashing lights behind a man driving the same stretch of road he's driven a thousand times on the way to work. Then an armed and armored man hands him a ticket that takes the money he needed to feed his kids or pay the rent. He wasn't doing anything dangerous, just didn't get his foot off the gas soon enough after the Speed Zone Ahead sign, or was simply going the same speed as the other traffic. Or maybe a citizen actually calls the police to make a theft report. Eventually a Deputy calls him on the phone, promises to call back; the Deputy calls back two weeks later and asks if he's settled things with the thief (happened to me; I'll NEVER call police for help again).

There are some really good cops. As a former Vol. Fire Chief and EMT, I've worked with them. There are also vicious psychopaths wearing badges; I've encountered those, watched them turn neighbors' lives into hell. I'm watching most of the good ones retire. Today's recruiting efforts are directed toward warriors, shooters who will obey orders.

It sickens me when I read the story of a man being turned down after making a department's highest score on an entrance exam, because he's "too smart to be a cop." Watching his losing legal battle makes a telling commentary on our society.

As sure as Amadou Diallo was hit 19 times, today's cops know that saying "I believed my life was in danger" makes almost any killing a "good shoot."

Face it, many of today's cops do more harm than good. They didn't choose that; it's what their masters send them out there to do. In this day and age, I'm afraid to carry a large amount of cash; if police get wind of it, they will rob me - legally. The cops who do more good than harm, will still be tarred with the same brush; that's human nature.

Police have NO duty to protect citizens. Many court cases, all the way to SCOTUS have established that. Some may want to protect, but they don't have crystal balls; they generally arrive after the action. On this forum, of all places, we should all KNOW our protection is OUR responsibilty, nobody else's.

As the economy approaches its true collapse, some of those who are hurting most will begin to strike back, not in revenge but as a matter of survival. Although one might argue that many of our politicians deserve it, it is the uniformed omnipresent visible symbols of oppression who will be the first targets.

I have watched this progression for decades, but I am powerless to prevent it. I cannot change human nature. The Good will suffer along with the Bad.
All I can do is avoid the cities and watch it as it happens.

In this world, there are heroes and there are monsters. Some of both wear uniforms.

As I've said before, I will help someone I KNOW to be the good guy. I will not automatically help someone wearing a uniform. That can easily be a recipe for disaster.

PS: Never forget that the worst crime of all, the one for which cops will show utterly NO mercy, is doing the job the Officer believed was his.

 

[B2Tall]

Would you like to watch footage of the innocent man fleeing what he thought were thugs in dark clothing, until the cop slams him into a wall and turns him into a vegetable for life?

He thought they were "thugs"?? I'm assuming you added this embellishment yourself since this unfortunate man hasn't regained consciousness.

They were uniformed officers and he chose to run. The video clearly shows he had his hands in his pockets and removed them only at the last instant. What would you have done if you were the officer?? Hmmm?? That's a rhetorical question......you just sit and judge others without imagining yourself in their position. It's truly a shame that this man suffered permanent injury but he made a foolish decision. It was a tragic accident.

As a gun owner I'm sure you don't want to be stereotyped because of some idiot who shoots somebody by accident or because of somebody who chooses to commit a crime with a gun and yet you're very quick to lump most LEOs together because of a very small minority of bad cops.

As for the rest of your post, I can show you 100 instances of LEOs saving lives, helping the community, etc. for every instance you show of a bad apple.

You live in a different world than I do. My world isn't perfect but I'm a long way from picking up a "The End is Near!!" sign and joining you on the front lines in your world doom, gloom, and pessimism.

 

[FN1910]

FN1910, you stated that some people would "CHEER" when they saw a police officer in trouble.


I saw NO SUCH THING ANYWHERE IN THIS THREAD......

Maybe you are just using the wrong word here to express what you mean....

I take "cheer/cheering" (in this threads context) as jumping up and down in JOY that someone else is getting the stuffing beat out of them........ I have seen nothing of the sort anywhere here..... Please give us an example of such if you see it........

Myself, I find it very saddening (the opposite of cheer) that our police have turned on the public and the vast majority of them are no longer "Peace Officers" but just criminals with badges that get away with things DAILY that us mere "citizens" would be arrested for in a heartbeat if we even thought of doing the same......

I said some people would cheer and there are some. I did not say that any in this thread would and if you would just read what I wrote I said the OP was probably asking because there are some that would and wanted to know how the people on this board felt. Read it again. I was referencing the OP which was before anyone posted anything one way or the other so how was I accusing anyone in this thread of anything. I have seen posts on other boards where people sais they would cheer for the BG.

As for determining which is the BG you are very correct and I have said repeatedly know what you are getting into and treat the LEO just like any other human being. Or is your hatred for cops so bad that you can't even comprehend that anymore. I didn't say that I would automatically help a cop because he was a cop but I would not automatically help the BG against a cop because I lump all into either the BG or GG category. But unlike you neither would I stand by and not do anything just because he was a cop.

 

[Axeanda45]

I said some people would cheer and there are some. I did not say that any in this thread would and if you would just read what I wrote I said the OP was probably asking because there are some that would and wanted to know how the people on this board felt. Read it again. I was referencing the OP which was before anyone posted anything one way or the other so how was I accusing anyone in this thread of anything. I have seen posts on other boards where people sais they would cheer for the BG.

As for determining which is the BG you are very correct and I have said repeatedly know what you are getting into and treat the LEO just like any other human being. Or is your hatred for cops so bad that you can't even comprehend that anymore. I didn't say that I would automatically help a cop because he was a cop but I would not automatically help the BG against a cop because I lump all into either the BG or GG category. But unlike you neither would I stand by and not do anything just because he was a cop.

Ok, thank you for clearing that up, I had mis-understood your post..... (I even "liked" it, not that that matters....) leasantry:

You , however, dont understand my posts at all if you think I "Hate" cops........

 

[hornett22]

Yep,pretty much.

So, you're saying that it is ok for you to do the same thing that you criticize the police for as "fair."

Karma can be a ***** sometimes. I don't bother anyone and don't like being bothered for no reason.

My favorite is " do you know why I pulled you over?" My response is always " Do I look like a mind reader?"

With the exception of my local sherriff's dept, I have no use for cops other than directing traffic.Fortunately we have a great sherriff's dept here in Blount county TN.Nothing but reasonable, polite, and realistic.

Why other police officers can't act like them is beyond me. We have two city police depts. here and they are a joke. A complete joke. They act like storm troopers and everyone hates them.

 

[Hamilton Felix]

You live in a different world than I do. My world isn't perfect but I'm a long way from picking up a "The End is Near!!" sign and joining you on the front lines in your world doom, gloom, and pessimism.

B2Tall: We are all products of our own life experiences and observations.

As to the guy who was head smashed into a vegetative state, research the story if you're interested; there's still plenty of it out there. Read the witness accounts. Yes, he was moving to a lighted area as he became increasingly fearful of the unidentified dark-garbed gang moving toward him. Also, if you or I smashed an innocent man like that, nobody would be on an internet forum making excuses for us; we'd be in jail for a very long time. Police should not have a "special right" to assault or kill simply because they are Police and are nervous. They are civilians, same as we are. This is not a war.

My world is the real world. I'm not blind; I try not to live in the past, but to look ahead and plan for the future.

My best friend and "adopted bro." since Jr. High was a cop for 30 years. My Beloved Kathleen, whom I will marry in May, used to be a cop in Texas. I have friends who are State Troopers and Deputies. But I am doing my best to tell the objective truth: There are Good and Bad out there. Some people may seek to align themselves with the power structure, no matter what. But the man who is both wise and courageous will make an informed decision; he will not automatically enter a lethal fray on the side of a Uniform, regardless of who or what may be in that uniform or what may be happening (it would be embarassing to find oneself aiding Police-impersonating home invaders or carjackers, shooting it out with the rightful owners).

I wish you a peaceful and happy life. If you're wise, you'll live happily, but be prepared for the possibility of unhappy times. That's what I do.

 

[FTG-05]

This has been mentioned before several times: Evan Marshal's "THE DANGERS OF INTERVENTION". EM is a former Detriot cop, +25 years of service. Read what the says about coming to the aid of someone you don't know. Even though he doesn't specifically mention coming to the aid of a police officer, I think it applies to very well to this discussion.


Excerpt:

"There has been a lot of space devoted in the Stopping Power Message Board and other message boards to the presentation of hypothetical situations and a request for solutions. The problem with such imaginary situations is that there is none of the untidiness and ambiguity that exists in the real world.

Please understand that I’m not ridiculing those who present such situations or those who attempt to solve them. I consider those who post on this board as friends I haven’t met yet. As your friend I feel a moral responsibility to share my observations based on my actual experiences in real incidents. I don’t want to see good guys and gals get their selves in a jam by jumping into situations that are unclear and fraught with danger.

Let me be perfectly frank. Those who think that intervention will bring fame, honors, glory, etc., are delusional."



More here: Commentary by Evan Marshall




And to answer the original question: Probably not, my first duty is to protect my family. My future financial well-being is part of protecting my family. My .02.

 

[Punch]

This has been mentioned before several times: Evan Marshal's "THE DANGERS OF INTERVENTION". EM is a former Detriot cop, +25 years of service. Read what the says about coming to the aid of someone you don't know. Even though he doesn't specifically mention coming to the aid of a police officer, I think it applies to very well to this discussion.


Excerpt:

"There has been a lot of space devoted in the Stopping Power Message Board and other message boards to the presentation of hypothetical situations and a request for solutions. The problem with such imaginary situations is that there is none of the untidiness and ambiguity that exists in the real world.

Please understand that I’m not ridiculing those who present such situations or those who attempt to solve them. I consider those who post on this board as friends I haven’t met yet. As your friend I feel a moral responsibility to share my observations based on my actual experiences in real incidents. I don’t want to see good guys and gals get their selves in a jam by jumping into situations that are unclear and fraught with danger.

Let me be perfectly frank. Those who think that intervention will bring fame, honors, glory, etc., are delusional."



More here: Commentary by Evan Marshall




And to answer the original question: Probably not, my first duty is to protect my family. My future financial well-being is part of protecting my family. My .02.

I don't think that anyone could have put it better than Evan did. I read things along this line in his books, and that has caused me to think about things and answer the question the way that I do. Like Evan, I have always considered the wannabe heroes and self proclaimed sheepdogs to be delusional at best. When not in mixed company, I have a different word for them. Like Evan, I have experience the ingratitude of people that I tried to help, although not to the same degree. In any case, charging into a fight that is none of my business is not part of my tactical response profile.