What Happens to Us When We Die?

[XD40scinNC]

I must admit XD you are a very interesting poster... you debate both sides of an argument from your perspective...All by Yourself! After working all day it is entertaining at times.

Because I have an open mind and have not merely filed much of life under stuff I have been told, but what makes sense, and what makes absolutely no sense. I think, I question, I question authority and it is uplifting and enlightening.

 

[XD40scinNC]

I can't convince someone an egg exists and has parts that make the whole if they don't believe in chickens.

Of course you can, I can see it, studied it in science classes in probably the 6th or 7th grade. It is a verifiable, repeatable, provable concept supported by evidence.

But which came first?

 

[hjon71]

You miss the point.

 

[XD40scinNC]

You miss the point.

No, your analogy failed.

 

[hjon71]

Because I have an open mind and have not merely filed much of life under stuff I have been told, but what makes sense, and what makes absolutely no sense. I think, I question, I question authority and it is uplifting and enlightening.

An open mind is a healthy mind. It isn't just the realm of Atheists. There are Christians who are willing to seek truth too. We merely see the other side of "I don't know" differently. In fact if a person claims "I don't know" I don't classify them as Atheist at all.

 

[XD40scinNC]

An open mind is a healthy mind. It isn't just the realm of Atheists. There are Christians who are willing to seek truth too. We merely see the other side of "I don't know" differently. In fact if a person claims "I don't know" I don't classify them as Atheist at all.

So, you have decreed that not believing in gods and other imaginary characters (Santa, leprechauns, tooth fairies, etc.) means we don't have a healthy mind. The fact you can't/won't question the existence of gods/deities demonstrates other than a healthy mind, but clearly demonstrates 'blind' faith...

I am totally open to reason and rational arguments supported with evidence. I do have a filter, no evidence, then it is treated as suspect, have some evidence that I will seriously consider anyone's theory.

A much more rational approach than "the bible/preacher says", thus it is irrefutable proof and to question is not only not allowed, it is a sin.

 

[hjon71]

No, your analogy failed.

It was a hypothetical analogy. Where a chicken couldn't be brought and shown.
*I agree the analogy wasn't great.

My point being AGAIN it is impossible to prove one thing(an egg) without establishing firmly the origin(chicken)

 

[hjon71]

So, you have decreed that not believing in gods and other imaginary characters (Santa, leprechauns, tooth fairies, etc.) means we don't have a healthy mind. The fact you can't/won't question the existence of gods/deities demonstrates other than a healthy mind, but clearly demonstrates 'blind' faith...

I am totally open to reason and rational arguments supported with evidence. I do have a filter, no evidence, then it is treated as suspect, have some evidence that I will seriously consider anyone's theory.

A much more rational approach than "the bible/preacher says", thus it is irrefutable proof and to question is not only not allowed, it is a sin.

Wow.
Not what I said at all.
Neither has a monopoly on free thinking. I have questioned the existence of God and the value of religion. I find more evidence to believe than disbelieve. So I do.

 

[XD40scinNC]

An open mind is a healthy mind. It isn't just the realm of Atheists. There are Christians who are willing to seek truth too. We merely see the other side of "I don't know" differently. In fact if a person claims "I don't know" I don't classify them as Atheist at all.

Wow.
Not what I said at all.
Neither has a monopoly on free thinking. I have questioned the existence of God and the value of religion. I find more evidence to believe than disbelieve. So I do.

Sounds like you did, and actually many of the atheists I have discussed this with, both in real life and other forums, having an open mind is how they reached the conclusion that god is purely a man-made entity and has nothing to do with reality.

I've stated it many times that I fully understand that nothing I say will ever cause someone to become an atheist, but I challenge any theist to question what their religion professes as true, and once they do they have opened the door to reason and rational thought.

There are basically 2 types of atheists. We were all born atheists (and by the way, without sin or any other religious guilt), and some of us (gratefully) have merely remained atheists as we were not programmed (by well meaning people) to be a theists. The others are those that matured and questioned their programming and the very suspect nonsense (I can't justify calling it evidence) that caused them to believe in the first place. This programming often starts before potty training is started, by the people that are the most important people in a small child's life, their parents.

 

[hjon71]

Sounds like you did...

You should get your ears/eyes checked.

 

[hjon71]

I've stated it many times that I fully understand that nothing I say will ever cause someone to become an atheist, but I challenge any theist to question what their religion professes as true, and once they do they have opened the door to reason and rational thought.

This road goes both ways, only difference is I do think people will believe if they are seeking truth. Because the truth begins when we can admit chaos doesn't beget order.

We were all born atheists (and by the way, without sin or any other religious guilt), and some of us (gratefully) have merely remained atheists as we were not programmed (by well meaning people) to be a theists.

Lol. Oh boy...
So, if children were left to their own devices, no outside influences, they would attain Utopia- a perfect society? I think we both know better.

 

[XD40scinNC]

Lol. Oh boy...
So, if children were left to their own devices, no outside influences, they would attain Utopia- a perfect society? I think we both know better.

No, as you pointed out in a previous post, we are human, but neither would they waste their time chasing a fantasy for an impossible utopia.

As nosreme pointed out society would be void of the following goodness of christianity:

Become a Christian so that you,too, can do good (for a change). You'll be able to: oppose equal rights for women and homosexuals, oppose science, oppose medical research, oppose quality K-12 education, spin off people who kill doctors, have a greater voice in women's' reproductive rights than they do, tell the military what personnel will be allowed to wear on their uniforms, support global warming, be part of organizations that loot local, state, and national treasuries...the possibilities and potential for doing good are endless!

 

[hjon71]

Well good then we agree, humans are not Good.
Neither Christian Agnostic or Atheist.

 

[XD40scinNC]

Well good then we agree, humans are not Good.
Neither Christian Agnostic or Atheist.

There are good and bad withing every category, and you could include Muslim, Jews, Buddhists, and what ever else you can come up with.

Major difference is that agnostics and atheists don't have the excuse of they are doing their gods bidding.

You should also take note that while atheists make up about 10% of the general population, they make up only about 0.2% of prison population.

 

[Farmhood]

Google is your friend.

Pew research....

The number of people who identify themselves as atheists in the United States has been rising, modestly but steadily, in recent years. Our aggregated data from 2012*show that*2.4% of American adults say they are atheists when asked about their religious identity, up from 1.6% in 2007.

sinful nature is always hostile to God....

 

[hjon71]

All good points, I agree.
But let's clear up one thing. People can know something but not use it. Specifically in this case, belief in God or/and religion but still be human and break social laws/rules.
Just so we are clear, a Christian claiming God's bidding to do anything but good is human error and not a reflection of, or from, God.

 

[Farmhood]

You should also take note that while atheists make up about 10% of the general population,



they make up only about 0.2% of prison population.

I think you hit the nail on the head about prison.

I've heard of people getting Jesus in prison.

Converting to Islam in the slammer.

Getting "beat in" to the bloods in the hooscow.

but never anything about becoming an atheist while detained.

sinful nature is always hostile to God....

 

[XD40scinNC]

I think you hit the nail on the head about prison.

I've heard of people getting Jesus in prison.

Converting to Islam in the slammer.

Getting "beat in" to the bloods in the hooscow.

but never anything about becoming an atheist while detained.

Yea, that has pretty much been covered earlier in this thread.

Many christians also believe people can forced to believe also, else why would they continuously play the Pascal's Wager fear card?

Fear is a very strong emotion, and probably one of the hardest to overcome. That's why much of religion is based on consequences.

Exactly. Without fear, most all religions would collapse, including Christianity. In that regard they are not much different than Islam or the Third Reich. The Crusades were also based on fear. "Do you believe?"....... No!......Off with his head!......How about you? Do you believe? Oh yeah!, I believe!" Same tune, different dance. If the evidence you have supporting what you believe is bad, bring on fear. Be it politics or religion, it all works the same on weak minds. 2,000+ years of results don't lie.

 

[Oldgrunt]

There are plenty of good arguments for God, Jesus, souls, heaven, eternal life, salvation (the whole obnoxious discipline of christian apologetics, for example)--as long as you understand that the arguments--however internally brilliant and masterfully wrought--have no relationship to the real world.

For me and many others, it all portends to a world to come. We are only passing through this "real" world.

 

[hjon71]

“If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning: just as, if there were no light in the universe and therefore no creatures with eyes, we should never know it was dark. Dark would be without meaning.”
― C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity

“My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust?”
― C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity

“The moment you have a self at all, there is a possibility of putting yourself first - wanting to be the centre - wanting to be God, in fact. That was the sin of Satan: and that was the sin he taught the human race. Some people think the fall of man had something to do with sex, but that is a mistake...what Satan put into the heads of our remote ancestors was the idea that they 'could be like Gods' - could set up on their own as if they had created themselves - be their own masters - invent some sort of happiness for themselves outside God, apart from God. And out of that hopeless attempt has come...the long terrible story of man trying to find something other than God which will make him happy.”
― C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity