TSA finds average of 4 guns each day at airports
- Thread starter nogods
- Start date
But with which of the statements? ;-)
fudo
New member
ME NEITHER, but better that than being in a one sided gun fight in the same space.
fudo
New member
B2TALL I see it a bit differently. I believe that there are 2 problems associated with airline security, first, bombs. This is a problem that is best dealt with on the ground. Luggage inspection with bomb sniffing dogs and chemical sniffers, along with profiling passengers the way El Al does (their method works wonders, BTW)along with x-ray machines appear to be adequate precautions. (This list is not exhaustive, but for illustration.
The Second problem is a highjack attempt. This is the biggest problem that the public has to deal with.
I maintain the position that if CCW holders were allowed to CCW on aircraft, (TSA background check, in deference to the position that there are jurisdictions where CCW does not require a background check.) CCW'ers here are photoed, fingerprinted, and background checked.Additionally, We are instructed in the use of deadly force and the law (An area that certainly needs a unified policy.)that an unknown number of armed passengers, and lacking ID on them, is a tactical problem a hijacker, or small group of hijackers can't solve. Additionally, after Flight 93, I don't think a planeload of airline passengers will sit passively by and allow a hijack attempt without intervening
So, B2tall, I see your point, but I think that there is more than an either/or way to go.
NOT ADDRESSING THIS TO ANY PARTICULAR PERSON OR PERSONS, but I believe that we, as a group, will be better served if we argue our positions without rancor and name calling. If we maintain an adult attitude with our discussion, Our position as responsible people, fit to carry firearms in public, will be easier to maintain in the face of sheeple that can be swayed to either side of the carry question. Since they get to vote, we really should carry on our discussions like adults.
fudo
New member
No Argument from me. NOLA PD was rated as the worst and most corrupt police departments in the USA. And no I can't remember where I saw that. But I have no doubts about it.
So, what exactly would you suggest? Tell my why it is dumb when entering a building where guns are forbidden, by law, to lock the gun in the glove box, and lock the car as well, in order to go into the building, especially when it is to watch your daughter perform?
If there is no need to have the gun with us when going to the school, then when exactly is there a need to carry a gun? Just leave it at home always.
There's never a need for a gun in a school parking lot, right?
http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20110825/article/110829712
Link Removed
B2Tall
Stirrer of the Pot
Do you consider commercial air travel in this country dangerous with respect to a vulnerability to criminal activity??
If your answer is "yes", please explain why you feel that way. Provide examples.
If your answer is "no", please explain why you feel the need to intoduce a very dangerous variable (i.e. passengers with guns) into an already safe situation.
Your assumption that only those people with good intentions would be able to acquire a CCW is a bit naive (and my primary opponents on this thread are anti-permit and anti-security screening. In their world there would be no stopping anyone from boarding a plane with firearms or perhaps even explosives.). Did Timothy McVeigh have a criminal record that would have prevented him from getting a permit?? The "Shoe Bomber"?? The guy who flew the small plane into a fed building in Texas a few years back?? They guy who tried to car-bomb Times Square a couple of years ago?? Ted Kacznski?? The list goes on and on. Without a serious enough prior criminal record, there would be no stopping these people from getting aboard a plane with a firearm under your plan, to say nothing of the lunacy of screenless air travel that some on this site would have. And I haven't even gotten into potential suicide attackers who who would simply attack without warning, thereby negating the delusions of grandeur that some wannabe sky marshals are gripped by. Since banning firearms from airplanes many years ago, no BG has gotten on board with one and there hasn't been an attempted jacking that couldn't have been defused with a good bare-knuckle beatdown. To compromise that record and to endanger countless lives as a result just smacks of vanity.
Actually not so much but I'm working with them to make some additions to the curriculum.....
Seriously? Do you understand what it takes to competently fire a gun on a plane? Air marshalls train with targets the size of playing cards.
1. I suggest you get your head out of your ass so you don't forget where you left your firearm.
2. I suggest you lock it in the trunk where it would be more secure than the glove box. If your vehicle doesn't have a trunk I'd install a safe in the vehicle. You drive a chick car IIRC. It's dumb to lock it in the glove box because that's one of the first places thugs look when they break into a car and it's not very secure.
fudo
New member
B2TALL - I am not looking to pick a fight with you or anyone else. I'm not calling anyone out. I'm just saying that it doesn't have to be all or nothing. Most of the security measures we see don't make us safer, they just make stupid people feel safe.
Rich_s "Seriously? Do you understand what it takes to competently fire a gun on a plane? Air marshalls train with targets the size of playing cards."
It takes the exact same skills that it takes to make the same shot on the ground. I also take note of the fact that the previously mentioned attempted bombers were all stopped by civilians, not air marshals.
BluesStringer
Les Brers
Not only does TSA get to steal everything from fingernail clippers to mother's breast milk to shampoo to virtually anything they deem potentially dangerous, now we find that almost half a million dollars of passengers' money is put into the general budget of TSA each year. According to the article, they have an SOP for counting and taking ownership of all the spare change that is left in the plastic bins.
Brother can you spare a dime.....for the TSA. Ugh.
Blues
For those who don't believe that mother's breast milk has been a target of the TSA's cleptomaniacal SOP, here ya go:
Brother can you spare a dime.....for the TSA. Ugh.
Blues
For those who don't believe that mother's breast milk has been a target of the TSA's cleptomaniacal SOP, here ya go:
B2Tall
Stirrer of the Pot
"I want to smoke ciagrettes in order to prevent lung cancer".
What do you think of that statement?? Pretty ridiculous, huh?? Well that's basically what you're saying but on a much larger scale.
Don't you realize that, like the statement above, your ideas would only serve to create the very situation that you claim to want to defend yourself against?? Your argument and logic are utterly self-defeating!
Um, no... not quite. It takes a lot more skill and training to handle a firearm in a plane. If you blow out a window it's goodbye for everyone on board. You do understand that- right?
Did those civilains stop the attempted bombers with firearms? And your point is?
S&W645
NRA Life Member
What a load of horse manure. In movies but science says you are wrong.
Suggest you go and watch Mythbusters and talk to the people on the Aloha 737. Structural failure is what brought down the BOAC Comets. Same thing was survived on the Aloha Airlines 737. Far bigger decompression events than a window failure. Hole in Southwest jet: Why didn't anyone get sucked out of the airplane? - Slate Magazine is one from last year. And it mentions other windows blowing out and the people surviving.
Firefighterchen
OC for Tactical Advantage
Gun fights breaking out? Isn't that what the anti gun crowd uses?
Don't allow guns on planes because gun fights break out. Dont allow guns in cars, homes, movie theatres, buses, etc etc because gun fights would break out. Just make it illegal to own guns at all so that gun fights don't break out everywhere. Except that doesn't happen. Why would it change on a plane?
Don't allow someone to carry a gun on a plane unless they train with targets the size of playing cards. Why stop there, don't allow anyone to own a gun unless they have that skill. The streets would run red with blood with all these untrained gun owners. Except that's not the case in any of the states that do not require training.
The plane hijackings were dramatic and sad, a day we as Americans will remember for the rest of our lives. But that was far from the worst situation possible...imagine 10 dc snipers in 10 different cities, what kind of terror would that have put into the American people? But we would still have had a fighting chance down here, why not up there?
That being said, the world is what the world is. I like going places that are far away, and a plane is the easiest way to get there, and so I will abide by the rules.
Don't allow guns on planes because gun fights break out. Dont allow guns in cars, homes, movie theatres, buses, etc etc because gun fights would break out. Just make it illegal to own guns at all so that gun fights don't break out everywhere. Except that doesn't happen. Why would it change on a plane?
Don't allow someone to carry a gun on a plane unless they train with targets the size of playing cards. Why stop there, don't allow anyone to own a gun unless they have that skill. The streets would run red with blood with all these untrained gun owners. Except that's not the case in any of the states that do not require training.
The plane hijackings were dramatic and sad, a day we as Americans will remember for the rest of our lives. But that was far from the worst situation possible...imagine 10 dc snipers in 10 different cities, what kind of terror would that have put into the American people? But we would still have had a fighting chance down here, why not up there?
That being said, the world is what the world is. I like going places that are far away, and a plane is the easiest way to get there, and so I will abide by the rules.
My neighbor is an airline pilot. We had a discussion about this once. He said a plane is loaded with small holes and leaks so if you hit a wall it would be no problem but if you blew out a window it would be.
BluesStringer
Les Brers
Your friend has either been duped by the myth himself, or he was yankin' your chain. Under no circumstances has any experiment with a gunshot in a pressurized cabin caused explosive decompression.
This was just the easiest thing to find on the subject, the Mythbusters episode alluded to earlier, but just Google something like "bullets and explosive decompression." There is a plethora of information available on it, and it just doesn't happen. Anyway.....
That's all well and good but do you think the average CCW holder is competent enough to fire a gun in such a small enclosed area and hit their target without hitting any innocent bystanders?
