To all NYS (Erie County) Pistol Permit Holders

[trophyhunter]

I just left Mr.Wilmer Fowler Jrs.office (Supevisor of Erie Counties Pistol Permit Department) Dec 16,2011 @ 1145 AM

I was advised by Mr.Fowler, that if you have an Restricted NYS Pistol Permit to Hunting/ Target

That you are NOT Allowed to Carry your Weapon Loaded,and or Concealed while you are in route to, Hunting, or Target Practise.

Mr.Fowler was very firm on his Statement.He advised me that this Statement came from Supreme Court Judge M. William Boller.

When I asked him when this went into effect he said that M. William Boller Recently made this Regulation. I also asked Mr.Fowler why the Judge was doing this, and Mr.Fowler could not give me an firm answer.

I asked Mr.Fowler how this knowledge came to him, He advised me that it came directly from M. Wiliam Boller himself.

Now, for those of you who will read this post.Dont bash me. I'm only passing this Information off to all of you, As it was told to me.

Mr. Fowler was very serious, and firm on this Information.I have no reason to doubt him.He would not lie to me, Over such Sensitive Information. If any of you doubt this Information Call Erie County Pistol Permit Department, and ask to speak to Mr.Fowler Yourself.@ 716-858-6600

Please don't punish me, I'm only the Messenger. I spent 35 minutes with Mr.Fowler trying to make sense of all of this

Bottom line, If your Permit is Restricted to Hunting/Target dont get caught Carry your Weapon Concealed, and or Loaded while you are IN ROUTE to your Activity,or on your way BACK HOME. once you reach your Intended Activity, Hunting,or Target Shooting.

Then you may Carry, and have your Weapon Loaded. Any other times then this you will be in VIOLATION of your Restrictions. Most Important Remember I'm only the MESSENGER!!!!!!

I do not agree with this Regulation It does not effect me in any way, because i'm Unresticted but I feel bad for all of you that are.

If you have the time, call Mr.Wilmer Fowler Jr. yourself @ 716-858-6600 Thanks for reading, and not shooting the Messenger. Have a good Day.

 

[BC1]

If the permit says "license to carry pistol is hereby granted" then it is valid throughout the state as a carry permit. NYS PL 400.00 (licensing) states

6. License: validity. Any license issued pursuant to this section shall be valid notwithstanding (in spite of) the provisions of any local law or ordinance..... A license to carry or possess a pistol or revolver, not otherwise limited as to place or time of possession, shall be effective throughout the state, except that the same shall not be valid within the city of New York unless a special permit granting validity is issued by the police commissioner of that city.

So if the permit is a CCW permit it is valid throughout the state and may not be infringed by any local law. There are no provisions in any NYS law requiring the gun be carried in any other form than concealed and loaded.

Now for the reality... many judges will advise a licensee that they may not carry the gun going to or coming from the event. In lower NY counties a wide berth is given to this and people generally don't have a problem. But we are seeing a lot of anti-gun sentiment from the LO in a number of counties in Western NY. The laws have become so convoluted in many states that honest law-abiding people aren't sure what to do.

 

[trophyhunter]

BC1,
As always I agree with you. I'm just stating what information I was given.adlai Mr.Fowler said that if caught carrying or having a loaded weapon under your restricted status it will be grounds for revokation,or suspension call mr.fowler yourself

 

[nogods]

Judges can't issue "regulations" in New York State. Neither can they impose additional restrictions on already issued permits without cause as to each individual permit holder.

Judge Boller could impose a restriction on a pistol permit as an an administrative restriction, but he'd have to give notice to every pistol permit holder subject to the restriction. That is easy enough for him to do with future issued permits, he just puts it in the letter of approval.

But for all existing permit holders he would have to notify them that he was further restricting their permits by placing the new restriction on their permits, and he couldn't do that without cause as to each individual permit holder.

either you mis-understood Will Fowler or he is BS'ing you.

 

[blazemyowntrails]

BC1, What was quoted above was the penal law. That means that criminal charges would not be brought. The restrictions are administrative, so the permit may be revoked.

 

[trophyhunter]

I didnt misunderstand anything Nogods I repeated word for word what I was told like I said dont DISCREDIT ME call for yourself 716-858-6600

 

[Aaron Manning]

WOW! Judges in this country really need to learn their place! Separation of powers exists for a reason: to keep one branch of government from being the only authority on any matter. The courts were designed to be the LEAST powerful branch of the three: Legislative, Executive and Judicial; IN THAT ORDER. Nowhere in the US Constitution does it say that a judge on ANY court can make law or 'regulation'...EVER! That judge needs to be removed from the bench by whatever means available. I don't care what state it is, this is stupid and illegal.

 

[trophyhunter]

I'm only going to say this one time;
Read what I posted, but remember,none of this is my opionion,or my beliefs.If you have any problems with the Information that I have passed along to you.

Call the Source of the Information.
Mr.Wilmer Fowler Jr. or M William Boller
It really aggravates the hell out of me when I post Credible Information from an Governmental employee,

to be told That I probably Mis-Understood what I was told. Maybe it's you that is Confused I said it several times in original Post I'm only the Messeneger.

If you doubt any of the Information step up to the plate, and Call Mr. Fowler give him your name, and you tell him that maybe he Mis-Understood the Judge, or that you believe he is wrong.

I took the time out of my busy life, to go to Pistol Permit Department to find out exactlly what the Regulations are. From the time I left his office, Until I posted the Information.

I didnt Mis-Understand,post any wrong,or make-up any of the Information.

 

[golocx4]

I didnt Mis-Understand,post any wrong,or make-up any of the Information.

Thanks for you efforts.
It is just another example of the whole NYS Pistol Permit system being Capricious and Arbitrary.
Put 10 Judges and 10 Lawyers and 10 County Clerks in a room with the Statutes and you will get 30 different opinions of what it says.

 

[golocx4]

WOW! Judges in this country really need to learn their place! Separation of powers exists for a reason: to keep one branch of government from being the only authority on any matter. The courts were designed to be the LEAST powerful branch of the three: Legislative, Executive and Judicial; IN THAT ORDER. Nowhere in the US Constitution does it say that a judge on ANY court can make law or 'regulation'...EVER! That judge needs to be removed from the bench by whatever means available. I don't care what state it is, this is stupid and illegal.

The Judaical Branch became the new priesthood. I thought we were doomed based on Judicial Advocacy.
Then I heard Newt talk about history and how to fix the Judicial.

If the Ninth Circuit is not ruling in accordance with the Constitution. Congress (House of Reps) simply cuts off funding for the Ninth Circuit and POOF they cease to exist. (Yes it is that simple and it give new meaning to WE THE PEOPLE.)
You don't think if that happened the rest of the Circuits would straighten up and fly right?
Rule according to the Constitution not you own political bent.

 

[AC Orange]

I just left Mr.Wilmer Fowler Jrs.office (Supevisor of Erie Counties Pistol Permit Department) Dec 16,2011......

Thanks for reading, and not shooting the Messenger. Have a good Day.

.

I got my NYS pistol permit when I lived in Erie County back in 1973. When I received it the bottom had a typewritten notation stating : "restricted, hunting and target practice only". Then around 1982, a lawyer fought those restrictions and won and I took my permit back and a new one was issued with no restrictions. I kept it like that until I moved to Cattaraugus County in 2000. Catt County issues the NYS permit with no sort of restrictions and you may carry any way you like.

I do recall (while still living in Erie Cty sometime around the mid 90's) being told by a gun dealer that when I bought another handgun, the permit department would take the typewriter and place those stupid restrictions back on the permit again. It seemed that another regime had rolled onto the scene and reversed what had been accomplished 10 years earlier. I vowed not to buy another handgun as long as that jerky silliness was in place in Erie County. The dealer said that was the feeling of most of the people holding permits like mine in the county (and of course he was losing biz).

It's astounding that all these little dictators have nothing better to do than harass law abiding citizens. This baloney with the restrictions is all the more ridiculous because in all of my years I've never known any upstanding citizen (and you are upstanding, or you never would have been issued the permit in the first place) who would misuse his firearm. This state's politics are insane !

BTW trophyhunter, thank you for taking the time to try and clarify the muddy waters these political bozos have created.

.

 

[trophyhunter]

AC Orange,
You are very welcome.As Stated before I have my Unrestricted permit from Erie County, and none of this has any bearing on me.

The only reason I went to talk to Mr. Fowler today was because over the past week, or so there have been many posts asking for information pretaining to The Judges Restrictions he sets on pistol permits.

After reading many replys. I deceided to go right to the source, to get the correct information I tried to get in to speak with M.William Boller, but as exspected The judge was too busy to meet with me.

From that point I went to the next in the chain of Command, which happens to be Mr.Wilmer Fowler Once I asked for him, he gladly invited me into his office.

Thats when I asked him to Clairify for me What was the proper Procedure for poeple that have these Restictions on thier permits.

My original post has excatly word, for word what I was told by Mr.Fowler the only reason i'm somewhat upset, is because after all my efforts I was told I must of Mis-Understood his Information.

I have no reason to post wrong,or incorrect information.I do appreciate those of you that understood what I posted was not my opionion, but merely what I was told.

 

[nogods]

AC Orange,
You are very welcome.As Stated before I have my Unrestricted permit from Erie County, and none of this has any bearing on me.

The only reason I went to talk to Mr. Fowler today was because over the past week, or so there have been many posts asking for information pretaining to The Judges Restrictions he sets on pistol permits.

After reading many replys. I deceided to go right to the source, to get the correct information I tried to get in to speak with M.William Boller, but as exspected The judge was too busy to meet with me.

From that point I went to the next in the chain of Command, which happens to be Mr.Wilmer Fowler Once I asked for him, he gladly invited me into his office.

Thats when I asked him to Clairify for me What was the proper Procedure for poeple that have these Restictions on thier permits.

My original post has excatly word, for word what I was told by Mr.Fowler the only reason i'm somewhat upset, is because after all my efforts I was told I must of Mis-Understood his Information.

I have no reason to post wrong,or incorrect information.I do appreciate those of you that understood what I posted was not my opionion, but merely what I was told.

Let me repeat - judges don't issue or enact regulations in NYS. If Fowler said that Boller had issued a new regulation then either Fowler was BS'ing you or Fowler is an idiot.

 

[trophyhunter]

Nogods,

Why dont you Take the ride to the Pistol Permit Department, and Introduce yourself to Mr.Fowler and tell him what you are telling me.

As it stands right now, you are preaching to the wrong choir. you have an Restricted Permit, not me. You stand more to loose, or gain by going to ECPP yourself and telling them that the judge and fowler are wrong or bullshitting poeple

 

[nogods]

Trophyhunter,

I pointed out that what you said is nonsensical. Judges don't issue regulations.

Fowler knows that. I know he knows that.

Fowler and the Judge also know that the Judge can't change the terms of any issued licenses without notice and hearing.

It is apparent that YOU didn't know those things when you made up your story.

I just kept the conversation going to let you dig a bigger hole for yourself.

It was a "Perry Mason" moment for you.

So why don't you REALLY go to Fowler's office and REALLY interview him for the forum, then come back and post whatever he REALLY says.

 

[Panheadzz]

I live in Orange County and in my letter it said I could carry loaded and concealed to any activity listed which happens to be 95% of my time. What happens to me if I carry within my restrictions in Erie County? Not that I intend to go there but just wonder what would happen?

 

[trophyhunter]

You've got nerve Nogods,
I tell you what on Monday why dont you call Mr. Fowler, and ask Him yourself.
Ask him that on Friday did a gentlemen named Jim come to your office, and discussed the rules on Carrying Concealed with an Restricred Permit.

Or better yet I will Gladly meet you at the Permit Office anytime, you name the time. Then you can ask Mr Fowler yourself.

Since you are calling me a liar you should have no problem meeting me, or calling him yourself. Lets see if your man enough to meet me at Permit office.

I will wait for your reply, and what time you can meet me in Permit office

 

[trophyhunter]

Too call someone a liar without any supporting information to back that up is just wrong.

I can't believe you would do that especially when my information is just a phone call away 716-858-6600

It feels like a slap in the face but I have NOTHING to prove to you.

 

[titaniumman]

It really doesn't matter what we "restricted" permit holders think, or want to believe...It has already been decided in court that the Judge's restrictions, weather legal or not will be upheld by the court system. It has already been thru the court and "restrictions" are upheld.

 

[jon@hmbgny]

Well i hate to do this but now someone is calling me untruthful, it was my idea to go to the permit office to begin with to pick up 2 applications for friend's. while trophyhunter and i were there together we asked patty thats one of the worker's at the office, if we could see mr fowler she said hold on a min. then patty said go on back boy's we did and sat down maybe 30~40 mins with supervizer fowler. to make this short i asked him can i travel to my other home in sinclairville with the restriction's i have? he said nope this judge does not allow it. but he allso said exact quote ,jon if you dont f~~~ up you will have no problems. i told him i wanted to upgrade so i can get a pennsylvania licence, because for a non resident to be able to apply you need a ccw. he knocked me down and said no you dont but in fact i know you do so i'll just get the paper work stating that you need a ccw to get a pa. pistol licence.