They Hate God: The Real Root of Atheist's Anti-Christmas Rage

[BC1]

Preponderance of the evidence is a very low standard of proof. All it means is "more likely than not," e.g. 51%. Why not something more rigorous, like "clear and convincing" or "beyond a reasonable doubt?"

And what good is any standard of proof when the arbiter of whether the proof is there is somebody who, despite all evidence to the contrary, firmly and even aggressively believes in god and dismisses evidence to the contrary?

How lots (not all, to be fair) of christians prove the existence of god: (1) Science can't explain exactly what cause the big bang in the first place. Therefore god exists. (2) The sun rising against Pikes Peak is stunningly beautiful. Therefore, god exists. (3) Science has had to revise strongly-held positions. Therefore god exists. (4) There are missing links in the so-called chain of evolutionary development of species xxx. Therefore god exists. (5) Civilizations have risen and fallen just as scripture prophecises. Therefore god exists.

No preponderance of the evidence. That doesn't apply to science. It applies to the application of civil tort law.
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Explain the origins of the universe and life itself. I understand quantum mechanics very well so let's dive deeply into the mathematics. Please explain the behavior of the particles involved, including the Higgs Boson particle. If this is not possible then, scientifically speaking, the conclusion is a hypothesis but is not proven. In science we only regard provable science as fact. Not my rule... the rule of science. Thus, neither side of this argument can make a scientific case.

 

[tcox4freedom]

No preponderance of the evidence. That doesn't apply to science. It applies to the application of civil tort law.
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Explain the origins of the universe and life itself. I understand quantum mechanics very well so let's dive deeply into the mathematics. Please explain the behavior of the particles involved, including the Higgs Boson particle. If this is not possible then, scientifically speaking, the conclusion is a hypothesis but is not proven. In science we only regard provable science as fact. Not my rule... the rule of science. Thus, neither side of this argument can make a scientific case.

I totally agree with you BC1. I just want to take the conversation is a non-emotionally driven direction. The reason I mentioned the preponderance of evidence is up to now any scientific or mathematical evidence I've offered up has been completely ignored. At the same time nobody has brought forth any counter evidence or retorts based in anything but emotion.

I would love to discuss the mathematics involved. After all, mathematics is a true science from which strong probabilities and real truth's can be derived. I also find the world of quantum physics very interesting. Though I'm not formally educated on the subject, I do enjoy reading & discussing it.

I've recommended a great book here several times that addresses the mathematical probabilities and recent discoveries in quantum physics for creation vs evolution. But, so far nobody has offer any scientific retorts; just emotional diatribes.

Here's the book- Link Removed

I do think your idea would be a great conversation to start. But, I'm not certain you will have many takers.

God Bless-


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[Steve Kittel]

If "God" exists and is all powerful, then why couldnt he just destroy Satan? And if Satan really existed, then why couldnt Satan just kill jesus when he was a baby? If all of this is "Gods" plan, and he is perfect, then why are all of the "plans" jacked up? I mean, he shouldn't have to jump through all these hoops to fix what he created in the first place (sin) since he created everything right?

Personally, I enjoy the holidays..I enjoy spending time with family and friends, and we do presents and decorate a tree (which really is a more of a modern day thing History of Christmas Trees ? History.com Articles, Video, Pictures and Facts). I say to each their own...There are a exponentially more people in the world that arent "Christians" than are...Just my nickels worth...

 

[kwimby]

How did a rant against atheists become another debate about gawd's apparent nonexistence?


Sent from my iPad using Link Removed

 

[BC1]

I totally agree with you BC1. I just want to take the conversation is a non-emotionally driven direction. The reason I mentioned the preponderance of evidence is up to now any scientific or mathematical evidence I've offered up has been completely ignored. At the same time nobody has brought forth any counter evidence or retorts based in anything but emotion.

I would love to discuss the mathematics involved. After all, mathematics is a true science from which strong probabilities and real truth's can be derived. I also find the world of quantum physics very interesting. Though I'm not formally educated on the subject, I do enjoy reading & discussing it.

I've recommended a great book here several times that addresses the mathematical probabilities and recent discoveries in quantum physics for creation vs evolution. But, so far nobody has offer any scientific retorts; just emotional diatribes.

Here's the book- Link Removed

I do think your idea would be a great conversation to start. But, I'm not certain you will have many takers.

God Bless-


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I hear ya. I was directing the comment to nosreme because he felt proof should be required in order to believe. To me that's the fallacy of mortal man; to think he can rationalize and understand everything based on some proof.
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When these guys tell me to prove it I ask them a simple question... Do you love your child? Prove it. They can prove they protect them, take care of them, feed them, shelter them... but they can't ever prove they love their kids. There is no scientific measure of love.

 

[BC1]

How did a rant against atheists become another debate about gawd's apparent nonexistence?


Sent from my iPad using Link Removed

It's always bound to happen when the subject is encountered.

 

[maine04619]

So tell us... what are the numbers?
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Classic mistake here. Generalizing anything is wrong. Every Christian isn't at your door. Every Christian isn't molesting kids or telling them they'll burn in hell. The only group that demands I share my earnings are atheist, liberal, socialists.
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If religion is a joke why are atheists spending so much time fighting it? It just shows these people are looking for trouble.
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For those who believe when they die their body will merely be fertilizer for that mighty oak... I hope someone cuts it down and uses the pulp wood to make bibles.

You are 100 percent correct not all believers are knocking at my door and not all are child molesters. This we agree. However all believers do follow books wrote by other humans. The big one here in the USA is the bible and every person who reads it is being duped by those who have edited it over the years. If the bible is in fact gods word then why all the edits? Why does the bible share so much in common with so many stories of "gods" going back many thousands of years before jesus. There are about 10 gods that directly mirror the jesus story and where around so long before right. So if the very book so many believe is the "word of god" is in fact a story wrote by men and edited by men time and time again to fit the story needed to control the public well that is a general statement that covers almost all believers.

We do not FIGHT religion we simply accept reality. Please note how all believers even use violent words to describe those who do not share the same beliefs. As I have stated many times we do not kill, threaten, harass, ostracize or vilify those who do not agree with us we simply point out the obvious flaws that must be possessed by those with faith to allow them to dismiss all reality.

Again we do not HATE. I do not hate you or and believer for what you choose to think or how you live you're life. Every book that claims to be the word of a god no matter the faith always has a punishment for those who do not follow the word of said book thus ingraining hate and a sense of superiority to all it's followers. Thus yes I do believe all books preach HATE for those not the followers. This is fact.

On the only hard at the very wost a atheist feels sympathy for those who believe as we can live our lives for us and our families and never have to worry what a omnipotent being who is all powerful demands of of humans to worship him or burn in hell for all eternity. Feel free to expound further on how believers do not hate.

I do not fight religion I simply have a different view and express it. You can not fight blind fight at best you can hope to interject some reality.

Lastly please note that you have claimed we hate in yet you're last line you infer that all of us who do not believe will not only die not accepting you're view ( thus spending eternity in hell ) but that our bodies will decay and in further punishment to show us how evil and wrong we are the tree that our body nourishes to grow will be used to create the very thing we do not believe in. As I said those who believe many times do not even know they hate and look down on those who do not agree with them. Maybe you should look into the mirror and ask yourself why you hate me so much for what I choose not to believe?

 

[BC1]

The big one here in the USA is the bible and every person who reads it is being duped by those who have edited it over the years. If the bible is in fact gods word then why all the edits? So if the very book so many believe is the "word of god" is in fact a story wrote by men and edited by men time and time again to fit the story needed to control the public well that is a general statement that covers almost all believers.

We do not FIGHT religion we simply accept reality. Please note how all believers even use violent words to describe those who do not share the same beliefs. As I have stated many times we do not kill, threaten, harass, ostracize or vilify those who do not agree with us we simply point out the obvious flaws that must be possessed by those with faith to allow them to dismiss all reality.

On the only hard at the very wost a atheist feels sympathy for those who believe as we can live our lives for us and our families and never have to worry what a omnipotent being who is all powerful demands of of humans to worship him or burn in hell for all eternity. Feel free to expound further on how believers do not hate.

Maybe you should look into the mirror and ask yourself why you hate me so much for what I choose not to believe? [/COLOR]

Well, how do you know we're being duped? Because mortal thoughts can't conceive of such a thing? The Bible is interpretive. It has been edited over the centuries as interpretation changed. If you read the Bible it is many things, not just religion. The old testament teaches us the history of the middle-east. It is a guide for living, a guide to law, accounting and many other things. In fact many of our laws are derived from the commandments handed down to Moses. Penal law is derived from common law and English law, which is derived from religion... in the days when the church ruled. Yet you follow those laws. Ever wonder where they came from?
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- Thou shall not kill (homicide, murder).
- Thou shalt not steal (burglary, embezzlement, theft, fraud).
- Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors wife (alienation of affection).
- Thou shalt not commit adultery (various laws on marriage and adultery).
- Remember the Sabbath (blue laws).
- Thou shalt not bear false witness against your neighbor (perjury).
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So why bother following God's law? Why not steal, kill and hit on your neighbor's wife? Because like it or not, you were programmed by parents and society to follow the laws of a good society. Those laws find their root in religion. The Bible gives us rules to live by... rules that provide for the furtherance of life... for the survival of mankind. And as society loses religion as a grounding of right and wrong this world has become nuts as never before in modern times.
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While you personally may not fight religion, atheists throughout the country are fighting relentlessly. Christmas, any mention of religion, a prayer before a NASCAR race, God Bless America sung during the 7th inning stretch, a cross on the side of the road where a loved-one died. "In God We Trust" on our money. "One nation, under God" in the pledge of allegiance. Crazy to expend so much energy on something that they claim doesn't exist.
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Regarding the last statement... I don't hate anyone; not even the perp who killed our little guy. I might wish he were dead, but I don't hate him. Never hate anyone, it clouds your judgment. I don't hate atheists. As long as they aren't attacking Christianity I don't even notice them. And as is the fate of all organisms, our bodies rot in the ground upon death. It's simple organic chemistry.
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Here's a thought... get to work on Christmas day. It's not your holiday. :biggrin:

 

[kwimby]

While you personally may not fight religion, atheists throughout the country are fighting relentlessly. Christmas, any mention of religion, a prayer before a NASCAR race, God Bless America sung during the 7th inning stretch, a cross on the side of the road where a loved-one died. "In God We Trust" on our money. "One nation, under God" in the pledge of allegiance. Crazy to expend so much energy on something that they claim doesn't exist.

The growing number of people rejecting religion as a societal tenant only marks the death throes of religion fighting itself.

Simply observe who started this thread and why. That's all you need to know.

 

[tcox4freedom]

You are 100 percent correct not all believers are knocking at my door and not all are child molesters. This we agree. However all believers do follow books wrote by other humans. The big one here in the USA is the bible and every person who reads it is being duped by those who have edited it over the years. If the bible is in fact gods word then why all the edits? Why does the bible share so much in common with so many stories of "gods" going back many thousands of years before jesus. There are about 10 gods that directly mirror the jesus story and where around so long before right. So if the very book so many believe is the "word of god" is in fact a story wrote by men and edited by men time and time again to fit the story needed to control the public well that is a general statement that covers almost all believers.

We do not FIGHT religion we simply accept reality. Please note how all believers even use violent words to describe those who do not share the same beliefs. As I have stated many times we do not kill, threaten, harass, ostracize or vilify those who do not agree with us we simply point out the obvious flaws that must be possessed by those with faith to allow them to dismiss all reality.

Again we do not HATE. I do not hate you or and believer for what you choose to think or how you live you're life. Every book that claims to be the word of a god no matter the faith always has a punishment for those who do not follow the word of said book thus ingraining hate and a sense of superiority to all it's followers. Thus yes I do believe all books preach HATE for those not the followers. This is fact.

On the only hard at the very wost a atheist feels sympathy for those who believe as we can live our lives for us and our families and never have to worry what a omnipotent being who is all powerful demands of of humans to worship him or burn in hell for all eternity. Feel free to expound further on how believers do not hate.

I do not fight religion I simply have a different view and express it. You can not fight blind fight at best you can hope to interject some reality.

Lastly please note that you have claimed we hate in yet you're last line you infer that all of us who do not believe will not only die not accepting you're view ( thus spending eternity in hell ) but that our bodies will decay and in further punishment to show us how evil and wrong we are the tree that our body nourishes to grow will be used to create the very thing we do not believe in. As I said those who believe many times do not even know they hate and look down on those who do not agree with them. Maybe you should look into the mirror and ask yourself why you hate me so much for what I choose not to believe?

I really appreciate your honesty & candor maine. You are one of the few atheist I have come across that immediately doesn't revert to emotional diatribes and attempts at personal ridicule to those that oppose your world view. I honestly have respect for you & like reading the majority of your posts.

I also want you to understand that "most" of the Christians you may meet and talk with do not have any hate or ill will toward you at all. (It is certainly that way from me.)

My only interest comes from my belief that God loves you and that you & other atheists are indeed destined to an eternity in hell if someone can't reach you for the sake of the gospel.

I wouldn't think being told you are destined to an eternity in hell if you aren't saved & turn to God should bother you or any other atheist. After all, you say you don't believe in God or hell. So, why does the mention of an eternity in hell bother atheists? (Is it more the way a Christian comes across or is it the statement itself?)

This christian belief is not based in hate; but comes from the stand point of love & care for our fellow human beings. Unfortunately, many times these types of conversations can become heated and take a turn downward in a way that I personally don't like. (So, may I offer up any apologies for this happening from my standpoint.)

What I would like to hear from you is some of the reasons why you believe the way you do. You have heard from me & others here. So, I would like you to share your beliefs and how you arrived at them with us.

For Instance:

• Do you believe in the possibility of God or that it is impossible for God to exist?
• Do you believe that all of what we know as reality completely occurred by chance or are you willing to consider that a yet unknown intelligence could be behind our physical realm?

I would also really like you to share as much detailed information or teachings that led you down the road to atheism.

• Was it the education you received in college?
• Was it some books that you read or other atheists that (for lack of a better term), disciple'd you?

You have also mentioned several times about "edits" in scripture. Can you please point out the edits that you are talking about.

I am quite aware of translations and certain edits that occur as language has evolved. But, most modern day translations are exactly that "translations" which were directly translated from the original text. I'm sure there may be a translation or two out there that may contain "editing" errors. But, I'm not aware of any Bible translations that has changed to underlying message of the Gospel. (If you are, please share them with us and cite the problem areas you are speaking of when you mention "edit" problems.)

Again, thanks for helping take this thread out of a ditch and down a better road. I really appreciate & respect that.


BTW; I hate trying to have long heartfelt conversations using a computer keyboard. Technology does have it's drawbacks. :smile:
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[maine04619]

Yet you follow those laws. Ever wonder where they came from?
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- Thou shall not kill (homicide, murder).
- Thou shalt not steal (burglary, embezzlement, theft, fraud).
- Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors wife (alienation of affection).
- Thou shalt not commit adultery (various laws on marriage and adultery).
- Remember the Sabbath (blue laws).
- Thou shalt not bear false witness against your neighbor (perjury).

Opps someone has not done their homework. All these "rules" where around long before the bible was. These "rules" are all used in societies over the globe long before the bible was even thought of. The bible "stole" them. You may even want to look up the story of jesus you will be amazed how many deities that where around thousands of years prior has virgin births, Died and where resurrected and where even the son of god himself.

 

[maine04619]

What I would like to hear from you is some of the reasons why you believe the way you do. You have heard from me & others here. So, I would like you to share your beliefs and how you arrived at them with us.

For Instance:

• Do you believe in the possibility of God or that it is impossible for God to exist?
• Do you believe that all of what we know as reality completely occurred by chance or are you willing to consider that a yet unknown intelligence could be behind our physical realm?

I would also really like you to share as much detailed information or teachings that led you down the road to atheism.

• Was it the education you received in college?
• Was it some books that you read or other atheists that (for lack of a better term), disciple'd you?

You have also mentioned several times about "edits" in scripture. Can you please point out the edits that you are talking about.

No I do not believe that is a possibility of a god of any sort.
Yes I believe life just happened.

I grew up on military bases all over the globe. I ( hold the laughter) took two years or theology in college.
My view is based on my ability to think and see what is around me.

As for the edits in the bible the oldest know books of the bible on a large scale are the dead sea scrolls. A simple comparison of those books to the bible the vast differences are astounding. Now we can get into that the books do not always translate well Ie 616 becoming 666. Lets look to things you can easily research for yourself. 14 Apocryphal books where REMOVED in 1886 or there about. The church itself has admitted they have many books that where removed or left out of the bible. This is all very easy to research. Now look to the reality of books for the first 100 years post jesus less then 2 percent of the people on the earth could READ. all books where wrote by hand and bibles where for the church ONLY it was illegal for the people to have or read one.


That all said let me again touch on hate. Religion by virtue of what it is are hate groups maybe not overtly like the klan it but when you tell you're followers that we follow this book or this person and all others are WRONG and because they do not believe they will suffer in many religions for eternity. This gives the followers a sense of superiority and by virtue no matter how slight a hatred of all not like them. To show how this happens look at the Stanford prison experiment. Look to any place where religion is more powerful them the government. Uganda for example where the believers think it is ok to KILL people who are gay.

Last READ you're bible start with the passages about women. Leviticus 21:9 , Revelation 2:22-23, Timothy 2:11-14, Deuteronomy 22:24, Ephesians 5:22-24 my favorite please let me know if you hold you're wife, mother and or daughter to this one Corinthians 14:34-35. If these are not hate and contempt what is?

 

[mappow]

No body has asked you to BELIEVE on your on accord. The choice is yours. (God Bless)

 

[tcox4freedom]

Opps someone has not done their homework. All these "rules" where around long before the bible was. These "rules" are all used in societies over the globe long before the bible was even thought of. The bible "stole" them. You may even want to look up the story of jesus you will be amazed how many deities that where around thousands of years prior has virgin births, Died and where resurrected and where even the son of god himself.

and- we're back.

Why is it atheists canNOT seem to say anything constructive or FACTUAL in a friendly conversation about God or Jesus?

They only seem to have the ability to make false claims that cannot be backed up with any facts or evidence whatsoever. Then, hope-against-hope there is a glimmer of a chance that the conversation seems to be taking a pleasant turn and then bang; we're back back to juvenile ranting of lunacy & ignorance.

Come on grow up and keep the conversation at least halfway intellectual and start backing up some of what you rant about with facts, cites & scientific evidence. If you aren't afraid of the conversation, let's get into the discussion BC1 wants to engage in. At least it promises to be more interesting & logical than the emotional diatribes we've seen from you guys so far.

So break out your various science & physics books and let's discuss some mathematical stats & scientific probabilities. You can start by addressing some of the questions & evidence you've already been presented with. We are patiently waiting some real intelligent & well thought out retorts to what has already been offered up.


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[SR9]

Funny, atheist spend nearly every waken hour ranting about a God the don't think exists. Isn't that a little stupid. It's like I don't believe in ghosts, but it doesn't consume my life and I don't rant against anyone the believes in ghost. If they don't believe in God that's their problem and it will be settled at the "Great Throne Judgement". Where it will suck to have been an Atheist.

 

[nosreme]

Funny, atheist spend nearly every waken hour ranting about a God the don't think exists. Isn't that a little stupid. It's like I don't believe in ghosts, but it doesn't consume my life and I don't rant against anyone the believes in ghost. If they don't believe in God that's their problem and it will be settled at the "Great Throne Judgement". Where it will suck to have been an Atheist.

Reply to #62 applies here, too. Surprise, surprise.

 

[Scvette]

Wouldn't it just be easier to keep religious post in a religious forum? You don't see atheist starting anti religious post,but you see a lot of nut jobs starting anti-god post. No I don't consider myself an atheist,but I'm sure I'll be called one.

 

[tcox4freedom]

Wouldn't it just be easier to keep religious post in a religious forum? You don't see atheist starting anti religious post,but you see a lot of nut jobs starting anti-god post. No I don't consider myself an atheist,but I'm sure I'll be called one.

No it wouldn't be. Every forum that I'm a part of that has a religious area is constantly barraged by atheists coming in to disrupt conversations about God, evolution & salvation. Just like it happens here.

Here's a question for you & the atheists here; "Why don't atheists just stay away from religious discussions in the 'Off Topic' area?"

I have a theory why with two possible reasons-

1. Atheists' HATRED for God, Christians and especially, the Lord JESUS compels them to come and interfere in religious discussions to disrupt them and try to force admins & mods to lock them in order to stop the Gospel be preached & taught.


2. Atheists really know God is real and despite their hatred & bitterness for God, the Holy Spirit is compelling them to come to religious threads & forums to learn more about God, Christ & salvation.


​

Whatever the reason is: the question why atheists feel they must participate if any religious discussions about a GOD & Heaven they claim doesn't exist or believe in, really baffles yet intrigues me.


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[Scvette]

No it wouldn't be. Every forum that I'm a part of that has a religious area is constantly barraged by atheists coming in to disrupt conversations about God, evolution & salvation. Just like it happens here.

Here's a question for you & the atheists here; "Why don't atheists just stay away from religious discussions in the 'Off Topic' area?"

I have a theory why with two possible reasons-

1. Atheists' HATRED for God, Christians and especially, the Lord JESUS compels them to come and interfere in religious discussions to disrupt them and try to force admins & mods to lock them in order to stop the Gospel be preached & taught.


2. Atheists really know God is real and despite their hatred & bitterness for God, the Holy Spirit is compelling them to come to religious threads & forums to learn more about God, Christ & salvation.


​

Whatever the reason is: the question why atheists feel they must participate if any religious discussions about a GOD & Heaven they claim doesn't exist or believe in, really baffles yet intrigues me.


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But you don't see atheist trying to jam there beliefs down other peoples throats as you see religious guys preaching their beliefs. Some of the topics on religion aren't to bad,but there's that 1 guy in here that can't write anything unless he quoting from the bible,like I said,I'm not an atheist,but that one guy on here ruins any thought of me wanting to learn more.

 

[tcox4freedom]

But you don't see atheist trying to jam there beliefs down other peoples throats as you see religious guys preaching their beliefs. Some of the topics on religion aren't to bad,but there's that 1 guy in here that can't write anything unless he quoting from the bible,like I said,I'm not an atheist,but that one guy on here ruins any thought of me wanting to learn more.

I do hear what you are saying and understand where you are coming from about not wanting things forced on you. But, "choice" & freedom is what Christianity is about. I've said it before to all the people here; I really don't have anything against anyone. I would welcome you or anyone else I've had words with into my home and invite them to the range. But, I also love God and care about you and all other unbelievers. This means I do have a moral responsibility to at least share my beliefs & concerns with you in the best way I possibly can. (Hopefully, in the spirit of love & respect)

I hope I come across as a man that loves God & cares for his fellow man because I really do want to see people find the truth. I also want to have a certain level of understanding that there will be resistance from a lot of people. My obligation is to God and to sharing what He wants me to share with you or anyone else. Out of respect, I try not to "preach" or share directly with those who don't want to be preached to. But, the obligation to God still remains. So, the only thing I can do is say my piece; then trust God or wait on a response or invitation to continue.

Jesus didn't force himself on anyone and I don't believe Christians should either. But, we still must be willing to stand up for our beliefs just as you are willing to stand up for yours. (Don't you think so?)

When we reach an impasse, we have a couple of choices. 1. We can just drop it and move to something else in conversation. 2. We can debate the subject. The other alternative is just leave things alone and not participate in discussions that may lead to conflict.

The only issue I have with unbelievers is what appears to be the double-standard they don't mind using themselves. They want to restrict my ability to share what I believe, yet they want to keep their ability to share their viewpoints. They are quick to mock my beliefs; but, take great offense when someone mocks theirs.

I really enjoy talking about my beliefs to somebody. But, it seems that some people want it so I can't share my beliefs with anybody. That's why the best thing any of us can do is participate in discussions that interests us and don't participate in those that don't. If God, Heaven, Jesus & religion don't interest you or someone else, why not just sit out of the conversation and allow those who do have interests in such things to have a polite and uninterrupted conversation?

There are hundreds of threads here and I only participate in the conversations I enjoy talking about. But, some people just can't stop injecting themselves into a religious thread & trolling. Personally, I don't like troll whether they are believers or unbelievers. But, I sometimes will let my flesh get the better of me & strike back. Other times, I just say what I feel God wants me to say and the let things alone.


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