The Open Carry Argument

[Ringo]

So some of you feel "uncomfortable" OCing?

Might want to rethink your resolve to carry a firearm in the first place.

How "uncomfortable" are you going to feel when someone pulls a gun on you? If you can't manage the stress of simply carrying a firearm openly, how will you fare when the stress levels are off the charts?

If your afraid of exercising a right then you don't deserve it. I can see the tactical argument for CC, but CCing because of negative public reaction or fear of a false arrest turns my gut. The reason LEOs get away with misinformation and unlawful arrests is because people are afraid to stand up for what is a constitutional right.

Just because you have a gun doesn't mean your not a sheep, I prefer to be the wolf.

I also agree completely. Where I live in Arizona open carry is common place. The local LEO's are well aware of the the law and there's never been an incident of harassment, or question, that I'm aware of in the eleven years I've been here. If there is any stress, it's usually on the face of someone visiting from California, but they get the same look if you're smoking a cigarette too.

 

[The Dude]

i open carry all the time.to me its the only way to carry. i dont like the feeling of being discreet, like i have something to hide. i just dont like the feeling. the way i see it, we carry for one of two reasons or both. 1. its our right, and 2. to defend ourselves when needed. and most full size or large frame weapons are much harder to conceal. for instance, i carry a desert eagle and would not want to even try to conceal it. the only way id be able to do so would be with a shoulder holster and an overcoat or jacket. i dont really see many people oc in tennessee, or at least in my town, but i hope to see more do so. and its not going to ruin anything for those who carry concealed. ive had people try to tell me that in the past. they're full of it. and the best thing about oc, is people see it, they are more prone to leave you alone. though you will get some odd looks now and then. thats just my opinion.

 

[Ringo]

I have to disagree Charlie. I have a very good friend who was attacked through his open car window by a drunk(.19 BAC) in Arizona. The drunk took a single round of .40 just above his right eye. He is dead so my friend won according to your post.
My friend doesn't see it that way. He is facing second degree murder charges. He's spent over $500,000 posting bail and paying for lawyers. He's lost his job, house, fiance, lots of family and friends. The drunk and my friend both lost. It's not about guilt, it's about the price you may have to pay even if you were 100% justified in pulling the trigger

When did this incident with your friend happen? The reason I ask is because in Arizona the Castle Doctrine gives a person the right to use force in a home or vehicle against an intruder without having to retreat. Add to that Bill (SB1145) signed into law April 25, 2006, imposed a new burden of proof on prosecutors to demonstrate beyond a reasonable doubt that a defendant's self-defense claim -that an act that would otherwise be a crime was justified-was unfounded. This law was implemented saying the 1997 law was fundamentally unfair in that self defense claimants were potentially losing their liberty or having to mount a costly legal defense. No longer does someone have to go broke proving their innocence when protecting themselves or their family in their home or car in Arizona.

 

[Unfettered Might]

I have to disagree Charlie. I have a very good friend who was attacked through his open car window by a drunk(.19 BAC) in Arizona. The drunk took a single round of .40 just above his right eye. He is dead so my friend won according to your post.
My friend doesn't see it that way. He is facing second degree murder charges. He's spent over $500,000 posting bail and paying for lawyers. He's lost his job, house, fiance, lots of family and friends. The drunk and my friend both lost. It's not about guilt, it's about the price you may have to pay even if you were 100% justified in pulling the trigger

No castle doctrine in his state?

In mine, castle doctrine includes your car too, if you or another person you know are in it at the time.

 

[Rocketgeezer]

I live in Indiana where OC is allowed, however Ive only ever seen one person practicing it outside of a gun store. The reason I only carry concealed is I live right next to a college campus (pretty much on the campus) Although it is a relatively conservative school I am not going to take the chance of walking into Panera with my g23 visible to the masses of sorority girls and liberal professors who are completely ignorant of the law. I think the most likely thing that will happen is someone will scream "HE'S GOT A GUN!!!" and everyone will run out of the place and 15 minutes later Ill be on my stomach with 4 officers around me guns drawn screaming orders at me. I am just not willing to take that chance until I live in a more "gun-friendly" neighborhood.

This is a good a reason as any for keepin your weapon out of sight,

 

[Mainsail]

I live in Indiana where OC is allowed, however Ive only ever seen one person practicing it outside of a gun store. The reason I only carry concealed is I live right next to a college campus (pretty much on the campus) Although it is a relatively conservative school I am not going to take the chance of walking into Panera with my g23 visible to the masses of sorority girls and liberal professors who are completely ignorant of the law. I think the most likely thing that will happen is someone will scream "HE'S GOT A GUN!!!" and everyone will run out of the place and 15 minutes later Ill be on my stomach with 4 officers around me guns drawn screaming orders at me. I am just not willing to take that chance until I live in a more "gun-friendly" neighborhood.

I routinely carry my 1911 or my G20 openly in a coffee shop that butts against UW Tacoma property. No drama.

 

[The Dude]

im going to open carry every chance i get. you may or may not get more hassel from the fuzz, but i dont know of anyone who was assaulted while open carrying. not to say it doesnt happen, and in my town, most people that see i have a weapon on my side and am being polite and talkative, tend to give off a sense of feeling safer in the presence of such. especially with the small businesses i frequent on a daily basis. criminals tend to pick out weak and easy targets. they are less likely to rob a store without casing the joint first. but i always like reading of people who do carry concealed and come out victorious when such a situation arises. but like stated before, its all in what one prefers.

 

[Glock Fan]

This is a good a reason as any for keepin your weapon out of sight,

I respectfully disagree. This would be more of a reason TO OC. It's a great opportunity to educate members of the general public. If they see enough citizens walking around minding their own business while OCing, then there's a chance that they may change their point of view. This is one reason why it's critical for those who choose to carry (OC or CC), need to be on their best behavior. You WILL be judged by others, so whenever possible, choose the path of least resistance and be passive whenever possible. I'm not saying that you need to go out there and let people walk all over you, I'm simply saying that you shouldn't be going out there "looking" for trouble.

I've OC'd in a few different states and never had a really bad encounter. I have been able to educate a lot more people than "scare off".

If you do decide to OC, be prepared to be stopped by LE and possibly detained while they figure out what's going on. If I'm in a hurry, or simply don't want to be bothered, I'll CC (whenever legal). Otherwise, if I'm simply gonna be out and about and willing to educate members of the public, I'll OC and educate anyone who's willing to listen to what I have to say.



gf

 

[The Dude]

I respectfully disagree. This would be more of a reason TO OC. It's a great opportunity to educate members of the general public. If they see enough citizens walking around minding their own business while OCing, then there's a chance that they may change their point of view. This is one reason why it's critical for those who choose to carry (OC or CC), need to be on their best behavior. You WILL be judged by others, so whenever possible, choose the path of least resistance and be passive whenever possible. I'm not saying that you need to go out there and let people walk all over you, I'm simply saying that you shouldn't be going out there "looking" for trouble.

I've OC'd in a few different states and never had a really bad encounter. I have been able to educate a lot more people than "scare off".

If you do decide to OC, be prepared to be stopped by LE and possibly detained while they figure out what's going on. If I'm in a hurry, or simply don't want to be bothered, I'll CC (whenever legal). Otherwise, if I'm simply gonna be out and about and willing to educate members of the public, I'll OC and educate anyone who's willing to listen to what I have to say.



gf

well said. my thoughts exactly.

 

[Unfettered Might]

I respectfully disagree. This would be more of a reason TO OC. It's a great opportunity to educate members of the general public. If they see enough citizens walking around minding their own business while OCing, then there's a chance that they may change their point of view. This is one reason why it's critical for those who choose to carry (OC or CC), need to be on their best behavior. You WILL be judged by others, so whenever possible, choose the path of least resistance and be passive whenever possible. I'm not saying that you need to go out there and let people walk all over you, I'm simply saying that you shouldn't be going out there "looking" for trouble.

I've OC'd in a few different states and never had a really bad encounter. I have been able to educate a lot more people than "scare off".

If you do decide to OC, be prepared to be stopped by LE and possibly detained while they figure out what's going on. If I'm in a hurry, or simply don't want to be bothered, I'll CC (whenever legal). Otherwise, if I'm simply gonna be out and about and willing to educate members of the public, I'll OC and educate anyone who's willing to listen to what I have to say.



gf

Ditto

 

[preventec47]

The reason I do not Open Carry is simply because I dont want others in the community and my aquaintenances
to think I am an extremist whacko. It is not that I think that others that open carry are whackos but I do know that
many feel that way. All of the previous arguments and discussions are good ones but I simply do not have
the courage to push a lifestyle that I do not overwhelmingly believe is right for me enough to incur
the social costs. I do agree with others and will support and defend them if they want to open carry
but if I can get away with "concealed" that is a pretty big step from nothing. In my estimation,
with having nothing equal to zero, I would say that concealed is a 90 percent and open carry is 98 percent
of what we can do. To get to 100 I would say that would include all kinds of martial arts classes
and practice extreme shooting skills regularly.

 

[tcox4freedom]

The reason I do not Open Carry is simply because I dont want others in the community and my aquaintenances
to think I am an extremist whacko. It is not that I think that others that open carry are whackos but I do know that
many feel that way. All of the previous arguments and discussions are good ones but I simply do not have
the courage to push a lifestyle that I do not overwhelmingly believe is right for me enough to incur
the social costs. I do agree with others and will support and defend them if they want to open carry
but if I can get away with "concealed" that is a pretty big step from nothing. In my estimation,
with having nothing equal to zero, I would say that concealed is a 90 percent and open carry is 98 percent
of what we can do. To get to 100 I would say that would include all kinds of martial arts classes
and practice extreme shooting skills regularly.

That is a very legimate reason and should be respected.

I just wish more of the anti-OC crowd would be as honest as you.

 

[Unfettered Might]

The reason I do not Open Carry is simply because I dont want others in the community and my aquaintenances
to think I am an extremist whacko. It is not that I think that others that open carry are whackos but I do know that
many feel that way. All of the previous arguments and discussions are good ones but I simply do not have
the courage to push a lifestyle that I do not overwhelmingly believe is right for me enough to incur
the social costs. I do agree with others and will support and defend them if they want to open carry
but if I can get away with "concealed" that is a pretty big step from nothing. In my estimation,
with having nothing equal to zero, I would say that concealed is a 90 percent and open carry is 98 percent
of what we can do. To get to 100 I would say that would include all kinds of martial arts classes
and practice extreme shooting skills regularly.

While I can respect your opinion and your choice, keep in mind it's the LACK of more people OCing that empowers the stigma that OCers are extremists.

 

[hardballer]

I open carry in Wisconsin. Have for several years. I have had more questions about my open carry from kids than adults. Are you a bounty hunter? Are you a cop? Sir, do you mind if I ask you a question? Why do you have a gun? Etc. Only one azz hole. Have you killed anybody today with that thing? (this from a local hick journalist). Is that thing loaded? Cocked and locked 1911 huh? Many more.

No one has screamed or run from me calling for the cops.

If you do not open carry because you are scared, fine. If you choose any of the other arguments out there, not so fine. Why do you drive a car, it might be jacked. (somebody could take it) I can tell you that I would rather be armed than not and my wife feels the same.

In Wisconsin, we have no choice but to open carry.

I carry a stainless steel, government sized 1911 in a belt slide holster, daily. Goes on when I wake up and stands ready beside me while I sleep.

This pic shows the grips I made for her.

 

[Ringo]

While I can respect your opinion and your choice, keep in mind it's the LACK of more people OCing that empowers the stigma that OCers are extremists.

That's the truth anyway you cut it.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Nice holster, hardballer! It's funny, I got a leather belt holster for my M9 when I was in Iraq. It's got the Iraq shop logo and stuff on the back, but the snap on the thumb break says "Great Seal of Oklahoma"!

 

[hardballer]

Nice holster, hardballer! It's funny, I got a leather belt holster for my M9 when I was in Iraq. It's got the Iraq shop logo and stuff on the back, but the snap on the thumb break says "Great Seal of Oklahoma"!

Thanks for the compliment LT, I made the holster and it is a thumb break. That is funny about the seal of OK on the snap. He probably bought it on eBay.

 

[preventec47]

Hardballer, so you are saying the only way you can legally carry in Wisconsin is OPEN CARRY?

In other words no conceal carry is allowed ?

 

[utimmer43]

Hardballer, so you are saying the only way you can legally carry in Wisconsin is OPEN CARRY?

In other words no conceal carry is allowed ?

Correct.

 

[GOV5]

Very well written piece!! I especially like the manner in which you address specific points without making concrete determinations of right and wrong. Probably the most well thought-out piece Ive read in quite a while.
Here in the Great State of Indiana our laws do not specify OC or CC. My permit simply says "Permit To Carry a Handgun." After a bit of research I have learned there is nothing preventing OC in Indiana. But where I start to get miffed is when the police make up laws and give law abiding respectable citizens a hard time. I live in Northwest Indiana, just moved out of East Chicago. I have read accounts of police hassling and even arresting citizens who were engaging in no illegal activity. Why? Because they were armed!! Officers in these areas dont even bother to check whether the individual is licensed. They arrest them and then it comes to light that the individual was licensed to begin with!! Ok, well charges are dropped obviously, but that arrest stays on a persons record!!!
Another one I love is police in NWI telling citizens they cannot carry loaded/chambered! Where did this one come from!?!? Once again, police officers making up laws as they go!
My point in all of this babbling is simply this. Indiana technically allows OC. Is it worth an arrest for me to OC? Probably not. Its a sad state of affairs when the POLICE restrict the free exercise of our rights!! This is the only reason I dont carry OC in NWI.

Arrest charges under that scenario are NOT on your record. That is not correct info.

If an officer tries to arrest you for Open carry, and it is indeed legal where you live, you just inform him that it is not an arrestable act, and ask him tp call his supervisor to the scene. When the supervisor gets there, inform him/her that you will comply with their orders, but if they persist in arresting you, it will cost them and the city a lot of money and embarrassment, due to the lawsuit you will file, and the TV coverage of the Keystone Cop event.

I don't think you'll have a problem if this occurs and you handle it properly. You see, I hate lazy, ignorant cops as much as I hate criminals...because there is no excuse for either one.