The Open Carry Argument

[Firefighterchen]

I believe it also shows the trend the government is moving towards "guilty until proven innocent." What the whole entire permit system does is require me to prove my innocence to the government, at my own expense, with no reasonable suspicion that I have committed a crime, in order to lawfully engage in an activity that the US Constitution SPECIFICALLY states is my right to engage in.

It wasn't too long ago that there were many requirements that had to be met in order to exercise the right to vote. The last requirement to fall was the poll tax which required people to pay a fee in order to vote. Those requirements were struck down as unconstitutional because they were meant to limit the ability to vote to only those the government desired to vote. I don't understand how the right to bear arms can be any different. How can the government limit the ability to bear arms effectively to only the elite few who can afford to pay for the government's permission? Is there ANYTHING that is Constitutional about that?

That idea goes well beyond permits...how about full auto? SBR? Suppressors?

We are all free...but we all wear chains.

 

[AzBanks]

This will not be popular for people who believe in open carry, but I think the only persons who should be open carrying a firearm are law enforcement, and licensed security officers. When anyone else carries a firearm openly I strongly suspect there has been no background check done on them. Carrying a firearm openly, outside of being in uniform or displaying a badge, scares people. I see no reason to carry a firearm openly unless you fall into one of the groups I mentioned. If you want to carry a firearm, get a concealed carry permit. When I see people in plain clothes, carrying a firearm openly, I have no idea who they are. Neither does the public, which explains why it scares them. I would prefer if a citizen wants to carry a firearm, that they get a concealed carry permit.

What you "think" doesn't matter. Sadly, you aren't "thinking" at all. If you actually took the time to actually think, to have an actual thought, your opinion would be radically different. You see this is America. This is not North Korea, or China, or Canada, or Mexico. This is the United States of America. This is a country that was founded on the idea of personal FREEDOM! I know busybody control freaks like yourself hate the idea that others would be free to live their lives as they wish and not as you want them to live.

So why do you (not)think that people should not be free to carry openly? Because some pansy might get all scared of the mere sight of a big bad gun. Too Bad!!!!! It is not my problem that other people have an irrational fear of an inanimate object. MY God given and constitutionally protected rights do not disappear because someone else gets all scared.

The fact that you don't know who someone is when they carry doesn't matter at all. It's none of your business unless they do something to harm someone else. That what freedom is all about. You may have heard the term, "Home of the FREE, and land of the brave. I'm sorry you can't handle basic freedom. Maybe you should move to a country founded on the idea of communism. FREEDOM is for grownups! Maybe you should spend some serious time actually thinking what the word and concept FREEDOM actually means.

BTW, open carry is legal in Arizona and has been for a LONG time. People do it around this great state all the time and no one gets scared unless they are from another state. I OC'ed for several years and only had a few people notice. Only one guy was surprised. We were at a gas station fueling up. He wasn't scared, just surprised. He was from NY and when he saw my gun, he asked if carrying was legal here. I told him that it was. He responded that I would be in jail for doing it in NY. I told him that was one of the big reasons I don't live in NY. He smiled, got in his car and drove away(educated).

 

[Mainsail]

...Carrying a firearm openly, outside of being in uniform or displaying a badge, scares people. ...explains why it scares them.

I won't repeat the excellent points raised by the others that destroy your argument.

I wrote the essay way back in 2009, having carried openly for a couple years already. In the six years or so that I have been carrying a handgun openly, so let's say a thousand exits from my home or car with an exposed firearm, I have yet to see anyone scared by it. I've had cops who were angry about it, a woman who didn't appreciate it, and another who wanted to debate it, but never have I seen anyone demonstrate fear. Like others have mentioned, the vast majority of interactions with other citizens has been supportive or curiosity and the rest were indifferent.

Thus your argument is invalid.

 

[tattedupboy]

Something I've said numerous times is that both OC and CC have their advantages and disadvantages, but ultimately, it should be up to the person carrying, and that person only, to determined what is best for them. Just because I've decided that concealed is what works best for me (after careful consideration of its pros and cons) doesn't mean that it must be what is best for everyone.

And as for the argument that open carry scares people, so what? Rottweilers, Dobermans, and pit bulls scare me, but that doesn't mean that people shouldn't be allowed to own them. Heights also scare me, but that doesn't mean we should demolish tall buildings, does it?

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[CharlesMorrison]

Wow, I never stop thanking my Mom and Dad for moving to Arizona. This just is a no issue here. Cocked and Locked in not even noticed. PG.

Not quite sure what to make of your response....

I was only stating that;

Vermont is a Constitutional Carry State:
No permit system.. Period. Pass your 4473, buy your gun and ammo and from there, carry it as you see fit. Either CONCEALED or OPENLY, no CCW required. No Guberment Permission Slip involved.

I was not aware that in Arizona you could CONCEAL carry without the Guberment Permission Slip. I know you can open carry there without one. Please, if I am wrong, set me straight, no harm no foul.

Where did you move from before going to AZ?

I guess I mean to say that I am reading your post to imply that "thank God" you left Vermont. If I am reading it wrong, I do apologize!


Sent from behind enemy lines.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I was not aware that in Arizona you could CONCEAL carry without the Guberment Permission Slip. I know you can open carry there without one. Please, if I am wrong, set me straight, no harm no foul.

Arizona no longer requires a permit for a person >21 years old to conceal. That changed last year.

I wonder if KSDeputy will come back to respond to our replies.

 

[Bikenut]

Well...

I OC'd while I took my loving wife to Big Boy in Bridgeport Michigan for lunch today. Many folks glanced at my sidearm yet no one much cared and just went on eating their lunches.

On the way out at the cash register the manager was taking some money out of the register (I'm guessing to make a "drop" so there isn't a lot of cash sitting in the register) and he struck up a very friendly conversation with us because I saw his nametag and mentioned that he and I share the same first names.

So... now all those who say that open carry "scares" people.... chew on this...

I'm standing there wearing my gun in plain sight (and yes he saw it) while the manager has a handful of money and his response is to have a friendly conversation ... and keep right on taking money out of the register. And then!!!!! MY GOD!!! That manager let me pay my bill!!!!! And then he wished a sincere and smiling "Have a good day" to both my wife and I.

I mean... can you imagine the horror of it all?

 

[Rocketgeezer]

I just recently started carrying openly once in a while, I just started a new job and while we do not carry at work, no rule against but given the work its just not a good idea, so it go's in the consol while at work and back in the holster on the way home and to whatever stops I make, and I used to cover it by pulling out my t-shirt it was covered but did not hide much, and it looked a bit sloppy, so one day my wife and I when to one of our regular places for dinner and I just stuck my G-23 in its holster and went in to eat, I got a couple looks but that was about it, and then went to wally world same deal, no issues at all...........now I'm not advocating open or concealed, but after having carryed for a good number of years I do have to admit quick access to your weapon is much better, so I would have to say do whatever you please open or concealed

 

[golddigger14s]

We're not all like that. Some of us choose to cc and not only don't pass judgement on those who OC, but fully support them.

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I wasn't saying everybody, but it just seems to me that the CC only group are for the most part more opinionated about how people should carry. (Oh wait, that sounds like a stereotype?) However for the the most part the OC people, are like; hey do what you like, and is legal. If I'm outside for an extended period of time in cold/wet weather I will CC because of the clothing requirement. Some people think that EVERYBODY should/must CC even if not required so that we don't "scare" people. If they are scared of an inanimate object they need counseling I can't provide. Anyway, my comment was directed to the CC only no matter what crowd. I'm with the belief that if what you are doing is legal, then who cares.

 

[golddigger14s]

Well...

I OC'd while I took my loving wife to Big Boy in Bridgeport Michigan for lunch today. Many folks glanced at my sidearm yet no one much cared and just went on eating their lunches.

On the way out at the cash register the manager was taking some money out of the register (I'm guessing to make a "drop" so there isn't a lot of cash sitting in the register) and he struck up a very friendly conversation with us because I saw his nametag and mentioned that he and I share the same first names.

So... now all those who say that open carry "scares" people.... chew on this...

I'm standing there wearing my gun in plain sight (and yes he saw it) while the manager has a handful of money and his response is to have a friendly conversation ... and keep right on taking money out of the register. And then!!!!! MY GOD!!! That manager let me pay my bill!!!!! And then he wished a sincere and smiling "Have a good day" to both my wife and I.

I mean... can you imagine the horror of it all?

I once held the door open for the armed guard with a dolly full of money coming out of my bank. Instead of freaking out he said........wait for it.........."Thank you".

 

[CharlesMorrison]

I wonder if KSDeputy will come back to respond to our replies.

Boy, I sure hope not!


Sent from behind enemy lines.

 

[JMKQR]

Personally I think it is a personal choice whether someone open carries if allowed in that state. Myself, I dont really care if someone see's my .40 cal or not. I have a CCW and am allowed open carry in Michigan. I believe that sometimes it's a deterent if someone is thinking about causing great bodily harm to me or those in my immediate area. I am disabled now and cant fight back like I did when i was younger. Big gun, Big hole. James NRA member and 2nd ammendment supporter. God Bless America

 

[Firefighterchen]

Personally I think it is a personal choice whether someone open carries if allowed in that state. Myself, I dont really care if someone see's my .40 cal or not. I have a CCW and am allowed open carry in Michigan. I believe that sometimes it's a deterent if someone is thinking about causing great bodily harm to me or those in my immediate area. I am disabled now and cant fight back like I did when i was younger. Big gun, Big hole. James NRA member and 2nd ammendment supporter. God Bless America

What I like about open carry is that most states believe it's a Right, and we aren't just "allowed" like they regulate concealed carry.

 

[Rhino]

Well...

I OC'd while I took my loving wife to Big Boy in Bridgeport Michigan for lunch today. Many folks glanced at my sidearm yet no one much cared and just went on eating their lunches.

On the way out at the cash register the manager was taking some money out of the register (I'm guessing to make a "drop" so there isn't a lot of cash sitting in the register) and he struck up a very friendly conversation with us because I saw his nametag and mentioned that he and I share the same first names.

So... now all those who say that open carry "scares" people.... chew on this...

I'm standing there wearing my gun in plain sight (and yes he saw it) while the manager has a handful of money and his response is to have a friendly conversation ... and keep right on taking money out of the register. And then!!!!! MY GOD!!! That manager let me pay my bill!!!!! And then he wished a sincere and smiling "Have a good day" to both my wife and I.

I mean... can you imagine the horror of it all?

I was terrified just reading about it.

 

[Rhino]

I wasn't saying everybody, but it just seems to me that the CC only group are for the most part more opinionated about how people should carry......

I think that's just a perception. Maybe the majority of the CC only group who choose to comment about OC are like that, but I'm betting that most CC only people are just like kerb and myself. They fully support whatever carry choice you decide to make. They just don't all choose to wade into this seemingly never ending argument, so you aren't really aware of that support. It's like the old 'squeaky wheel' thing.

 

[wolf_fire]

This will not be popular for people who believe in open carry, but I think the only persons who should be open carrying a firearm are law enforcement, and licensed security officers. When anyone else carries a firearm openly I strongly suspect there has been no background check done on them. Carrying a firearm openly, outside of being in uniform or displaying a badge, scares people. I see no reason to carry a firearm openly unless you fall into one of the groups I mentioned. If you want to carry a firearm, get a concealed carry permit. When I see people in plain clothes, carrying a firearm openly, I have no idea who they are. Neither does the public, which explains why it scares them. I would prefer if a citizen wants to carry a firearm, that they get a concealed carry permit.

And what data are you quoting on the number of people that are scared when they see someone openly carrying a firearm? Or is this just your hunch and speculation? I personally have not seen this type of behavior you say is exhibited among people who see an openly carried firearm and I find it incredulous that you think it and think so strongly about it that you typed it publicly in order for all to know your feelings on the subject.

What gets me furious however is that you are a sworn officer of the law who took an oath to defend and protect the Constitution and you feel that the 2d Amendment should be infringed upon that severely. For making such an open and public statement, I would personally like to see your badge removed for breaking your oath.

You do realize that nearly all criminals do not carry openly. They carry concealed. Why? They have something to hide. Folks who carry openly have nothing to hide and as such, it should actually put you more at ease when someone carries openly since they have nothing to hide. Why then do you think "no background check" was done on them? Have you ever purchased a handgun before or did your department just hand you one?

Also, what is the Shawnee County Sheriff's Department's policy on using their logo for personal use on a public forum? Are you representing the belief's and policies of the Shawnee Country Sheriff's Department? Is this an official post for them? Does Sheriff Herman T. Jones, of Shawnee County know you use his office's logo for your personal use? Every LEO I know, knows NOT to use the department's official logo for things like this. See, you have no ethics.

 

[tricolordad]

Tcd,i took the first oath in 1980,still believe every word.semper fi!!!

I believe we are a blessed nation and that the oath is why we are free. Americans citizens are the animal to be most feared by would be tyrants. Our oaths don't expire when we are discharged from this Force of Volunteers. Conscripts are easy pickins. Ask Stalin.
Sent from my Clear using USA Carry mobile app

 

[NavyLCDR]

I would really like to see KSDeputy come back to defend some of his statements, but I doubt that will happen. Especially when he says ""When I see people in plain clothes, carrying a firearm openly, I have no idea who they are." and yet when he sees people in plain clothes without a visible firearm, they are the same person, but now he has no idea if they are armed or not, and that somehow makes them less "suspicious"?

 

[tricolordad]

I would really like to see KSDeputy come back to defend some of his statements, but I doubt that will happen. Especially when he says ""When I see people in plain clothes, carrying a firearm openly, I have no idea who they are." and yet when he sees people in plain clothes without a visible firearm, they are the same person, but now he has no idea if they are armed or not, and that somehow makes them less "suspicious"?

Nah, he won't come back. Traitors are very often cowards and unable to finish what they start.

 

[Kramer1113]

It is difficult for many Public officials to demonstrate respect for the Constitution of the United States of America when its commander and chief is unable to respect it.
Next will come the military.

Long Live The Militia, Long Live the Republic.