The 7th Circuit Court says you have no 4th amendment rights

Not to mention 8 of the top ten medication associated with violence are psych drugs. This list is from the website of TIME:
The statistics come from the Institute For Safe Medication Practices, and TIME printed a very important disclaimer with that list.
.
Please note that this does not necessarily mean that these drugs cause violent behavior. For example, in the case of opioid pain medications like Oxycontin, people with a prior history of violent behavior may seek drugs in order to sustain an addiction, which they support via predatory crime. In the case of antipsychotics, the drugs may be given in an attempt to reduce violence by people suffering from schizophrenia and other psychotic disorders — so the drugs here might not be causing violence, but could be linked with it because they’re used to try to stop it.
It's far too easy to take statistics out of context if you aren't familiar with their use and how they are collected and controlled. In the case of many of the drugs used on that list, it wasn't the drug causing the violence, but rather the violence that caused the drug to be used.
.
I also wonder who wrote the list. The item for Varenicline (Chantix) seems to be suggesting Xyban as a safer alternative. It's actually spelled Zyban, not Xyban, and it's bupropion. For anyone not familiar with the name bupropion, it's more commonly known as Wellbutrin, an antidepressant that some others have attempted to link to violence in the past as well. Maybe they misspelled Zyban in an attempt to hide that connection. It might also explain why they said "...that number for Xyban is 3.9 and just 1.9 for nicotine replacement." Zyban is not a nicotine replacement, and never has been. It has only one use, and that is to reduce the urge to smoke, so there can't be two different numbers or two different purposes. The FDA changed the labeling for both Chantix and Zyban back in 2009 to reflect reports of irritability and violent behavior, but they didn't list them as side effects. That's because they've never been confirmed in in any sort of clinical trial or medical study, and because irritability and violent behavior isn't all that uncommon in people who are trying to quit smoking, whether they're using medication to help them or not.
.
You can find all sorts of claims about links between medications and violence out there. The problem is that most of the people making the claims don't have the slightest idea how to read and interpret the data properly. Statistical analysis isn't a skill you can pick up in a few weekends reading a book or a few web sites. I spent many months with a statistics professor in college who was an absolute nazi about perfection and impiricability, and I still consider myself a relative novice at it. Just as the paragraph from the TIME article noted, the mere presence of the two conditions together does not denote causality. If that were true, you could conclude that rigor mortis was a leading cause of death because it's found in 100% of dead people. But if you really want to see how easy it is to misinterpret data or statistics, try tracing it back to the source.
.
As I stated earlier, the TIME article came from Institute For Safe Medication Practices. It was a research paper authored by Thomas J. Moore, Joseph Glenmullen and Curt D. Furberg, and was printed in the journal PloS One in December of 2010. Now, from reading the TIME article, you would assume the research was on links between the medications and violence, right? Wrong.
.
Objective
.
To identify the primary suspects in adverse drug event reports describing thoughts or acts of violence towards others, and assess the strength of the association.
They weren't studying links between medicines and behavior. They were studying reports. There weren't any patients involved whatsoever. They never saw, much less examined, a single solitary soul. And the authors weren't doctors either. The reports came from the FDA MedWatch system, which the Institute For Safe Medication Practices manages. It's an entirely voluntary reporting system on suspected drug reactions, and anybody can use it. You don't have to be a doctor. So if you think your smoking cessation medication caused you to get your dog pregnant, go ahead and report it to MedWatch. Maybe you'll be in TIME magazine next year, and we can have yet another thread on these eeeeeeevil psychotropic drugs.
 
So if you think your smoking cessation medication caused you to get your dog pregnant, go ahead and report it to MedWatch. Maybe you'll be in TIME magazine next year, and we can have yet another thread on these eeeeeeevil psychotropic drugs.

Great post Rhino. To be fair though, 12Roses ended her(?) post by saying when she ditched the psychiatrists, not the psychotropic drugs, is when she started feeling better. It's fair for a laymen to base an opinion about drugs on something they've read in a national media outlet without accusing them of demonizing the drugs, or calling them "eeeeevil" (I know, I'm short a couple of e's), even if it can be shown that the nationally-recognized media outlet used questionable sources, which I think you did a fine job of demonstrating.

I am no fan of psychiatry for reasons I haven't been particularly shy about talking about (my sister's suicide), and I can say without any doubt in my mind that the constantly-changing prescriptions never once got my sister stabilized, nor did her psycho-"therapy" help her at all. Before about '94 or so, she was perfectly functional. She could hold a job, I wouldn't say she was a "good" mom, but she did raise her only son for the first 10 years or so of his life, but the hit to her self-esteem after her psychs supported her going on full disability, combined with all kinds of different drugs over the next 12 years before she killed herself, sapped any obligation she felt to take care of herself completely out of her. She killed herself with the drugs the psychs prescribed for her, plus low-level pain meds that are anyone's guess why they were prescribed in the first place, as her son told me that he knew of no condition or injury that would justify them.

I don't "blame" the psychs for her death, nor the drugs either. I know of people who have benefited from both. But I do think there are valid criticisms and concerns about both to be vocalized, especially when the totality of what they "achieved" over 12 years of total control of their patient's life was just that; they "achieved" total control, and convinced a troubled woman who was working and being productive that she could no longer be her own provider. Was it an intentional and nefarious "achievement?" I can't say. It wasn't helpful though, and intentional or otherwise, it was harmful to her. I remember hearing something about the Hippocratic oath being, "First, do no harm." About 11 years into her treatment, she deserved a refund, well, the tax-payers deserved a refund, for her harmful "treatment."

I think these things can be said aloud without making the speaker out to be irrationally paranoid about drugs or doctors is all I'm trying to say. I don't know 12Roses, but I didn't perceive anything but an interest in the subject combined with a bit of personal experience she was commenting on.
_shrug__or__dunno__by_crula.gif


Blues
 
I wasn't being so extreme, Rhino, I never said they were "eeeeeevil". You are putting words in my mouth. The Adverse Events Reporting database is only one source for data suggesting that psychiatric medications can cause dangerous behavioral changes. Several antidepressants have been restricted for use in children in the UK and Canada because of studies (which were funded by the drug companies themselves) showing that the drugs could induce violence and more prominently, suicidality. More than 20 countries have "black box" warning labels on SSRIs for this reason.
In 2003 Glaxo Smith Kline applied for pediatric approval Paxil and released data from prior studies showing children on Paxil were 1.5 to 3.2 times more likely to suffer suicidal ideation than children given placebo. Suicide in previously asymptomatic adults was also reported in Eli Lilly Prozac trails. Amphetamines can cause psycho-motor agitation which can make certain individuals violent.

If you are happy on your psychiatric drugs good for you, but there are too many questions to treat these drugs flippantly.

And me being in TIME? LOL. Ain't gonna happen.

Blues, I am sad to hear about what happened to you sister. I found psychotherapy did not help me much either. It seemed to focus too much on my own problems and defects and made me feel worse.
 
Great post Rhino. To be fair though, 12Roses ended her(?) post by saying when she ditched the psychiatrists, not the psychotropic drugs, is when she started feeling better....
The same was true for one of my family members, who is today far better than a few years ago when on those medications (wants to remain anonymous). So I know well of what you speak. I often say medicine is as much art as science, and psychiatry is probably the best and most extreme example of that. Most psychiatrists will tell you flat out that getting the medications right is not much more that a guessing game of trial and error. Even when they get it right, the underlying conditions will often change, meaning the right combination is no longer 'right', and they have to start guessing again.
.
I wasn't being so extreme, Rhino, I never said they were "eeeeeevil". You are putting words in my mouth.
Actually I wasn't, and both of you have highlighted a glaring mistake I made. The satire and sarcasm was directed at those who misstate the stats, sometimes deliberately (especially the media), and with the conspiracy theorists who love to spread this stuff. I should have made it clear that it wasn't directed at you, and I didn't. Please accept my apologies for that. I've just seen so much of this stuff over the years that it gets under my skin sometimes, and I guess I got a little carried away. In this case I was mainly speaking of the people who made that list.
 
I'm betting you're probably right, telpinaro.

When I renewed my CPL, the attorney for the legal portion of the class stated that in his opinion, "government was in the process of making everyone a felon or would get them enmeshed in the mental health system", and THAT is how America would be disarmed.

90+ million Americans won't be voluntarily disarmed and may have to let their inner mentally unstable psycho out to deal with these a-holes.
 

New Threads

Members online

No members online now.

Forum statistics

Threads
49,531
Messages
610,692
Members
75,032
Latest member
BLACKROCK6
Back
Top