Stopped by Police with concealed carry


NavyLCDR

New member
We have rights, but also responsibilities.

I consider it part of my responsibilities to exercise my rights. Which includes keeping my private and lawful affairs and possession private when the law does not require me to notify. My lawful possession of a firearm is none of any police officer's business unless engaged in a legal investigation which directly involves my firearm in some way.
 

Curmudgeon

New member
Depends what State you live in and what their requirements are. In NC, YES, you must identify your a CWP holder if the officer identifies him/her self as a LEO.

The state you live in is completely irrelevant. What is relevant is the state (and it's laws) you are in at the moment.
 

Curmudgeon

New member
In PA if you have a pulse, $50 and a clean record you get the permit. Whether you know which end of the gun to hold matters not. If you're carrying anywhere it is YOUR responsibility to know the laws of the jurisdiction you're in. Pleading ignorance isn't an option especially concerning carrying a firearm. FWIW, I'm telling the LEO even if I don't have to.

That's $20, throughout the state of PA. Which you might already know if you knew which end of a gun to hold.
Apparently, in PA we trust our citizens to know this, among other things, like the meaning of freedom, and "...shall not be infringed".
Shame you didn't pick up on that during your stay here. :wink:
 

wolf_fire

New member
The cost of CCP is $20 in Allegheny County. Just to let you know.

In PA, it's not a CCP, it's a LTCF, just to let you know.

Note: I broadcast the city I live in (Pittsburgh, PA) which is in Allegheny County (in fact the County Sheriff's office is on Grant St. in Pittsburgh), and I'm well aware it costs $20 for five years as I had posted in post #18, right before your #19 post. I'm assuming your post was directed toward me since you used the word "you" right after my post. If you were directing it to someone else, now you both know. :smile:
 

BluesStringer

Les Brers
It strikes me as one of the weirdest compulsions amongst CC'ers that it's considered "respectful" or "responsible" to inform cops of information that is none of their legal business to be made aware of. Of course, this only applies in jurisdictions that don't require notification, which my state doesn't, and I know that many don't. I would like to ask the people promulgating the idea that it is respectful or responsible to inform when there's no legal requirement to do so, to tell me what the difference is between an "official" contact and a casual or unintentional contact with a cop is while you're carrying a weapon? If it's respectful and/or responsible to inform when they initiate an official contact, why would it not be just as respectful and/or responsible to inform them if they're taking their lunch break in the booth right next to you at Denny's? Think about it. The only possible "respect" or "responsibility" that enures to a cop's benefit during a stop is that they are in close proximity to you, a very peaceful, responsible CC'er who has no intention of drawing down and/or shooting the cop who is sharing your space for the duration of the stop, and you're just trying to set their mind at ease that that is true, right? What's different if they are sitting in very close proximity to you in just some naturally-occurring casual contact? Actually, the difference is fairly stark in many such situations. During a stop, their senses are on heightened alert. While eating their Grand Slam breakfast, they're sitting in a booth in a tactically-compromised position where they're paying less attention to their surroundings, it's harder to defend themselves, harder to deploy Tasers, pepper spray or their firearm if needed. If it's respectful and responsible to inform them when a CC'er is in close proximity during a stop, it would seem to me to be even more respectful and responsible when you just casually share space with them during normal every-day, unofficial contact.

So where am I going wrong? Or more to the point, where are you going wrong if you're not informing cops of your carry status every time you see one in close proximity to you? And if you are informing in such circumstances, how's that working out for you?

Blues
 

kenochs

New member
... Tell me what the difference is between an "official" contact and a casual or unintentional contact with a cop is while you're carrying a weapon? If it's respectful and/or responsible to inform when they initiate an official contact, why would it not be just as respectful and/or responsible to inform them if they're taking their lunch break in the booth right next to you at Denny's?
Blues

I can't speak for the rest of the responses, but I see a big difference between being stopped or approached by a cop and being questioned about a police matter, versus simply being in close proximity by chance. I would, out of courtesy, if if stopped or questioned by LE disclose that I am carrying. But I'm not going to just walk up to a random cop and say "Hey, I'm packing". That's just silly.
 

NavyLCDR

New member
I would, out of courtesy, if if stopped or questioned by LE disclose that I am carrying. But I'm not going to just walk up to a random cop and say "Hey, I'm packing". That's just silly.

To me both actions are equally silly: informing a police officer of my permit and gun, regardless of if I am just in close proximity to the officer or if he has stopped me for an official reason, when there is no requirement to do so by law and when my gun is completely irrelevant to the reason stopped.
 
E

ezkl2230

Guest
In Michigan, yes. If you are stopped by a LEO you must immediately disclose if you are carrying, whether on your person or in your vehicle.

Link Removed
 

apvbguy

New member
I would, out of courtesy, if if stopped or questioned by LE disclose that I am carrying. But I'm not going to just walk up to a random cop and say "Hey, I'm packing". That's just silly.

you could just pee on yourself to indicate your submission to authority
 

BluesStringer

Les Brers
As an act of good faith, I would always disclose a firearm to LE if I am stopped. I do not currently CC, but I am applying for my permit. If the cop turns out to be a douche, than so be it. But I will act responsibly at all times.

We have rights, but also responsibilities.

Been carrying since 1978 (35 years). I've had permission slips in three different states, none of which required disclosure. I'm well aware of my responsibilities, and spontaneously telling anyone what personal property I have in my pockets, waistband, strapped to my ankle or attached to my belt ain't one of 'em. I have, exercise and protect my rights, and there is no "but" following that statement, and never will be.

And by the way, if a cop is a "douche," he's one whether you disclose or not, and disclosure is just as likely to throw his douchebaggery into overdrive as just shutting your mouth, letting him write you up for whatever he pulled you over for, and getting out of there without adding anything more for him to judge you about to the mix.

I can't speak for the rest of the responses, but I see a big difference between being stopped or approached by a cop and being questioned about a police matter, versus simply being in close proximity by chance. I would, out of courtesy, if if stopped or questioned by LE disclose that I am carrying. But I'm not going to just walk up to a random cop and say "Hey, I'm packing". That's just silly.

As NavyLCDR said, no sillier than thinking your permission slip is going to make you look "responsible" or "respectful" to a cop that has no legal right to that information. And as has been established, there is no obligation to disclose in the state in which you live.

Instead of just dismissing my question as "silly" though, how about answering it logically? The only conceivable reason you would think it "respectful" or "responsible" to inform them during an official contact is that they're cops who have a dangerous job yada yada yada, and you have this inexplicable idea that them knowing you're carrying is going to set their mind at ease that you 1), respect them, and 2), are perfectly responsible. They have the same dangerous job when they're just casually in close proximity to you, so logically, they "deserve" the same respect and responsibility. Where is the logical "silliness" in that?

The other way around is true though. It is silly to bring your gun into your conversations and/or official/casual contacts with them all the time, unless, again as NavyLCDR said, your weapon has some bearing on the reason you're in a contact with them.

I wrote about a contact I had with cops in my own backyard just a few nights ago. As always, if I'm dressed, I'm armed. Read that post and tell me how it would've helped either the cop or me to disclose that I had a full-sized .45 with a flashlight/laser attached under my un-tucked shirt. The only other two contacts I've had with LEOs for more than 10 years were two stops at DUI check-points, which piss me off to no end anyway as I view them as blatant violations of my 4th Amendment rights. The last thing any of the cops at those two stops would've wanted was for my PO'ed attitude to be combined with, "Oh, by the way, here's my permission slip and I'm armed to the teeth!"

I really do wonder how responsible anyone who has as many contacts with cops as those who say "I always disclose" is to begin with. Most of my life, I've driven as part of my job(s), so I guess I have always had a vested interest in driving like Gramps did, but even taking into account how many times I've had involuntary contacts with cops over my entire life, and I still don't think it's more than double the three I've mentioned here in this post. Bunch o' desperadoes populating this website lately! LOL

Blues
 

wolf_fire

New member
I can't speak for the rest of the responses, but I see a big difference between being stopped or approached by a cop and being questioned about a police matter, versus simply being in close proximity by chance. I would, out of courtesy, if if stopped or questioned by LE disclose that I am carrying. But I'm not going to just walk up to a random cop and say "Hey, I'm packing". That's just silly.

I agree informing a random cop that you are packing is silly. Explain please how that cop walking past you in the street has any more/less right to know about your legally concealed weapon then the one that pulled you over for a minor traffic stop? How in the world is telling him you have legal possession of a tool put him at ease? Do you disclose that there is a tire iron in the trunk? That would be a concealed weapon as well. Do you inform him that your owner's manual is in the glove box? You do have a legal right to be in possession of your papers too? Heck, tell the cop every legal thing you have in and around the car. What makes the firearm so much more special that you disclose THAT piece of information?
 

wolf_fire

New member
In Michigan, yes. If you are stopped by a LEO you must immediately disclose if you are carrying, whether on your person or in your vehicle.

Link Removed

It's a good thing those MI cops are so much safer because I, the law abiding citizen, let him know I have something legal in my possession. You think the gangsta thug with his illegal weapon is going to tell him? Helll nooo! These laws are so asinine, because the criminal won't abide by them and the law-abiding citizen is made to feel like the criminal.
 

barrygray0

New member
it so happens yesterday i was pulled over buy the local police for "weaving" 3 time . when he came up to my van i had both hands HIGH on the steering wheel , window rolled down and engine off . when he came up and said i was weaving i explained i was blowing my nose and I WAS LICENCED AND HAD A CONCEALED FIREARM . HE ASK WHERE IT WAS ON MY PERSON AND I TOLD HIM . he ask for my DRIVERS licence and i gave that , my ccw licence , owners card and insurance card . he took them went back to his patrol car came back a few minutes later handed me my cards and THANKED ME FOR BEING HONEST WITH HIM .
HE TOLD ME TO PULL OVER WHEN I HAD TO BLOW MY NOSE ! ! !
THIS IS A TRUE STORY
 

jrs

New member
I know this is a PA forum, but if this passes the courts and Constitutional muster in NY, it's coming to a state near you. We here in NY believe this is a "Test Case" for the rest of the country.

Here in the Socialist Republic of NY, there is no legal requirement to inform. Plus, the State and its Emperor (oops) Governor, Andrew (you don't need more than 7 bullets to kill a deer) Coumo have undertaken and illegally passed the NY SAFE ACT, under which the ultimate goal is CONFISCATION!
Max Tresmond, of Tresmond Law, who has cases against the SAFE ACT was on the radio yesterday, Tom Bauerle show on WBEN AM, speaking about the progress in the case as well as the fact that he was able to obtain NY State Police "Safe Act Field Guide" which is basically a road map for the police to find ways to disqualify you from owning a gun. If disqualified for any gun, "ie: assault rifle", then you cannot own ANY gun!!!

As part of the dialogue, the question was asked about informing an officer "as a courtesy"... Max's response was DO NOT DO IT!!! By offering that information, you have opened the door for the officer to ask about the weapon, ask to see the weapon, ask how many bullets are in the mag (7 max under SAFE ACT)...etc, etc, etc.... IF you do not answer honestly, then you raise suspicions, or more importantly, if you refuse to answer, then he/she may escalate it to failure to comply with a reasonable request of a police officer. Further, even if you state that you won't answer questions without an attorney present, then you will likely be detained (subject to search, inspection of and police temporarily relieving you of your weapon) until your attorney gets there. All because you wanted to be "courteous". Finally, because the law is written in such a way that the "definition" of an "Assault Weapon" is so wide, they can find some way to call what is likely a legal weapon "illegal" under the SAFE ACT.

So... anyone want to keep arguing why it's "courteous" to inform?

For those who might be interested, here's the link to the NY Field Guide for LEO. Link Removed Pay special attention to page 6.
 

plcd22

New member
Is it required to tell an officer when stopped that you have CCP?

NO!

I am sorry for all the "self-righteous" people on this forum because I just scanned down through all 4 pages of responses and unless I missed it NO ONE answered your question. Come on people are you really that ignorant to not answer a simple yes or no question?!?

This is posed in the PA discussion and firearm news thread, so unless the OP is illiterate they know where they are posting the question and that is where the question is directed.
No we are not required to disclose that information when stopped here in PA

I would however recommend getting the "CCW" app for your smartphone so that you don't have to put up with all this ignorant bashing on you for a simple question!

Again sorry for all the inconsiderate people who felt the NEED to chime in and criticize you, which I am sure I am going to get attacked now to...
 

apvbguy

New member
NO!

I am sorry for all the "self-righteous" people on this forum because I just scanned down through all 4 pages of responses and unless I missed it NO ONE answered your question. Come on people are you really that ignorant to not answer a simple yes or no question?!?

This is posed in the PA discussion and firearm news thread, so unless the OP is illiterate they know where they are posting the question and that is where the question is directed.
No we are not required to disclose that information when stopped here in PA

I would however recommend getting the "CCW" app for your smartphone so that you don't have to put up with all this ignorant bashing on you for a simple question!

Again sorry for all the inconsiderate people who felt the NEED to chime in and criticize you, which I am sure I am going to get attacked now to...
you should try reading for comprehension, the question was not only answered a lively discussion ensued. who called the net nanny?
 

plcd22

New member
I just reread the entire first page and NOBODY answered!!! This is a PA thread so there is no need for "depends on which state you're in" comments! They asked in a specific forum for PA if it was in the general discussion thread then maybe but not here! The first answer should have been "NO" - then a discussion is fine but to get a REAL answer one has to read several pages of "discussion" :-(


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farsidefan1

New member
Utah is no need to disclose state. Unless they give me a treat I see no reason to tell them I'm carrying. And it better be a GOOD treat!:yes4:
 

Curmudgeon

New member
I just reread the entire first page and NOBODY answered!!! This is a PA thread so there is no need for "depends on which state you're in" comments! They asked in a specific forum for PA if it was in the general discussion thread then maybe but not here! The first answer should have been "NO" - then a discussion is fine but to get a REAL answer one has to read several pages of "discussion" :-(


Sent from my iPhone using Link Removed

The PA forum is where this thread is now, but I can't help but wonder whether it was first posted somewhere else and moved here later on by staff. I don't believe the forum gives a permanent visual indication that a thread was moved unless a moderator chooses to leave a marker to that effect.
Food for thought.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
 

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