Ringo
A WATCHMAN
Lukem has banned all political discussion. Just another "run of the mill" forums now...:drag:
~ USA Carry...R.I.P. ~
Signs of the End of the Age & The Last Generation
- Thread starter Ringo
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Saltheart Foamfollower
New member
The Mormons believe that you get another chance after death to "accept the truth". In reality, nobody knows.
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Oldgrunt
Well-known member
Farmhood: I can appreciate your excitement about your weapon but, when you really want to step up in the world, try a 9mm Sig. :biggrin:
Farmhood
New member
Oldgrunt: You must be well aware that I hang on your every word
and hold you in high regard.You leave me no choice but to side with tcox4freedom on this issue. LOL
Out of respect I will make time to try out this Sig you speak of....
☺
sinful nature is always hostile to God....
tcox4freedom
New member
That's where you would be wrong. All "Christians" know! (It comes with accepting Christ as your Savior.)
We are given this revelation of TRUTH as a "gift" from God. As we grow in faith & study the Word, God also opens our eyes, hearts & minds to much more that we could ever know when we walked in the blindness of sin.
A similar thing happens when we walk into a dark room. We can't really know all we need to know about it's contents until we turn on the light. We know that the room has some interesting stuff in it that we may need because someone shared that knowledge with us. But, we still need to have faith enough to turn on the light before we can see all the things that others can see.
JESUS is the LIGHT! (Everything else is fumbling around in the dark; or at most a flashlight.)
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Saltheart Foamfollower
New member
But you don't KNOW. You believe. You have faith. But until you die, you can't know.
Farmhood
New member
Well what he is saying is he knows and believes.
So I am thinking you don't believe what he believes then You don't know till You die?
With all do respect....
sinful nature is always hostile to God....
Saltheart Foamfollower
New member
I DON'T believe what he believes, and I don't know till I die. Nobody knows. Believing and knowing are two different things.
Sent from my XT907 using USA Carry mobile app
Sent from my XT907 using USA Carry mobile app
tcox4freedom
New member
Exactly! Christians can "KNOW"!
I realize I'm speaking beyond your depth of knowledge. But, when we accept Jesus & believe on HIM, the Holy Spirit comes & dwells within us. That is when a person can move out of faith & belief and into knowledge & TRUTH.
Look at it this way-
When we are little and just starting our education. Our parents & teachers (people who have a higher level of knowledge), tell us what 2+2 is and teach us how to spell our names. But, as we accept (by "faith") and believe ("trust"), in what they say, we expand our base & scope of knowledge that can lead us into more knowledge and greater & better things in our life.
The same with JESUS- we accept & believe others with a deeper scope of knowledge & TRUTH. Then, after we accept Christ & receive the Holy Spirit, we learn deeper & greater TRUTHs.
Just like learning our ABC's & 123's- our belief & trust in our parents & teachers opens the door to deeper knowledge & greater understanding if we let it happen. But, we can also close our minds & hearts in rebellion; deciding instead to hang out with the cool kids, skipping school and forsaking our education. But, in doing so, we can't blame anyone else for the failures & repercussions our rebellion causes us.
Rebel and forsake our earthly education will only lead to "earthly" failures. But, rebel & forsake our "spiritual" education and we will face eternal ramifications that will never ever end.
I'm not trying to argue with you at all. I'm just sharing the TRUTH of what I KNOW. It is up to you to rebel or to accept. I just encourage you to "THINK" before you make a decision that could have eternal consequences that are well beyond our minds to comprehend.
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Saltheart Foamfollower
New member
No. You don't know. That's the point. You believe. You have faith. But unless you've died, you don't KNOW. It doesn't matter that you've accepted Jesus. You still don't KNOW!
I believe that when I take my next breath, I'll be successful. But until I do it, I don't know. The only thing anyone can know with absolute certainty is something that has already happened.
We can know.
And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life and this life is in his Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life (1 John 5:11-13).
And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life and this life is in his Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life (1 John 5:11-13).
tcox4freedom
New member
Again you are WRONG! It is "you" that does not know- not I.
I'm not going to argue because you have renounce all reason and are blinded by your ignorance-
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Saltheart Foamfollower
New member
You "know" because you were told it was so, or you read it.
Sent from my SCH-i705 using USA Carry mobile app
Sent from my SCH-i705 using USA Carry mobile app
Ringo
A WATCHMAN
Nobody likes to think of the day when his or her life will come to an end. Our mortality is as inevitable as it is foreboding, so most people prefer to spend their days not thinking about it. But death comes for us all, and in the end, acts as that great equalizer for all of mankind. The rich, the poor, the great and small, famous and anonymous all have yet to escape deaths’ surly grip. In fact, the Bible speaks of only two men who have passed into the beyond without ever tasting death, that being Enoch and Elijah. There is a generation who will not see death. Our God revels in doing the insanely miraculous (because only He can), and will provide the world a demonstration of His power over death and the grave by sending His Son to come back for the redeemed Bride, those believers who have placed their faith in Jesus Christ. The Rapture of the Church is not a man-made doctrine, nor is it even a new doctrine, but one Christ Himself said would transpire.
In God’s foreknowledge, He knew that man would sin and that through sin, death would enter the world. God knew that the only way He could redeem man, was to send Himself as a man to pay the ultimate sacrifice because man could never achieve salvation in his fallen state as we could never measure up to God’s ultimate standard of Righteousness. God knew those people who would believe before time began, before the world came into being, or before the hosts of heaven were even created. And in that foreknowledge, He also knew that He would exempt one generation from ever seeing death, so that He might be glorified. Those who reject the doctrine of the Rapture, forget Who holds the keys of death and Hades. They forget Who controls the power over death and the grave. They forget that Paul begins his chapter on the power of the resurrection with the Gospel and ends this powerful chapter with the Rapture of the Church.
The world builds memorials to keep alive the memory of those who came before us. They build their monuments hoping that it will stand as a testament to man’s greatness, not realizing they’re just castles in the sand. Christians work toward what is to come, which is imperishable, eternal, and far more glorious than anything this world can contain. God pours life into death and death into life without a drop being spilled. We Christians may fear how he or she meets death, but we don't fear the other side of death’s dark curtain. To one generation, our generation, death will flee from us just as the darkness flees the rising of the morning sun. Knowing that we are already 67 years into this Last Generation and the worlds negative conditions continue to wax worse & worse, Christians can rejoice in the promise of God.. The Blessed Hope, The Rapture or The Great Escape, call it what you wish, all positive.
In God’s foreknowledge, He knew that man would sin and that through sin, death would enter the world. God knew that the only way He could redeem man, was to send Himself as a man to pay the ultimate sacrifice because man could never achieve salvation in his fallen state as we could never measure up to God’s ultimate standard of Righteousness. God knew those people who would believe before time began, before the world came into being, or before the hosts of heaven were even created. And in that foreknowledge, He also knew that He would exempt one generation from ever seeing death, so that He might be glorified. Those who reject the doctrine of the Rapture, forget Who holds the keys of death and Hades. They forget Who controls the power over death and the grave. They forget that Paul begins his chapter on the power of the resurrection with the Gospel and ends this powerful chapter with the Rapture of the Church.
The world builds memorials to keep alive the memory of those who came before us. They build their monuments hoping that it will stand as a testament to man’s greatness, not realizing they’re just castles in the sand. Christians work toward what is to come, which is imperishable, eternal, and far more glorious than anything this world can contain. God pours life into death and death into life without a drop being spilled. We Christians may fear how he or she meets death, but we don't fear the other side of death’s dark curtain. To one generation, our generation, death will flee from us just as the darkness flees the rising of the morning sun. Knowing that we are already 67 years into this Last Generation and the worlds negative conditions continue to wax worse & worse, Christians can rejoice in the promise of God.. The Blessed Hope, The Rapture or The Great Escape, call it what you wish, all positive.
MARANATHA! :victory:
Saltheart Foamfollower
New member
Here in my local area, there is a "forum" on craigslist called Rant and Rave. People can post pretty much anything there. There is a group of posters who visit and post often, and a loose community of sorts has sprung up there. One of the posters was nicknamed "Countdown" because he had an actual countdown of the days left until the rapture. He presented rational sounding arguments, cited scripture, encouraged people to investigate his claims for themselves. There were some who believed he was right, some who believed his math was off by a few month/years/decades, and some who thought he was nuts.
His countdown ended over 2 years ago. For a few weeks, he maintained that the end was coming any day, but he just sounded more and more pathetic every day.
The religion threads on here remind me of Countdown more and more.
Sent from my XT907 using USA Carry mobile app
His countdown ended over 2 years ago. For a few weeks, he maintained that the end was coming any day, but he just sounded more and more pathetic every day.
The religion threads on here remind me of Countdown more and more.
Sent from my XT907 using USA Carry mobile app
Ringo
A WATCHMAN
Does Anybody Really Know What Time It Is?
One wise soul once observed that there’s a fine line between hobbies and mental illness. Particularly collecting. A blood relative of mine, e.g., proudly displays dozens of glass replicas of vintage cars, filled with aftershave. (I rest my case.) I collect evidences for pre-trib rapture. Which at least don’t add to the clutter.
Even among true evangelicals (increasingly outnumbered, seemingly, by those afflicted with itching ears), issues divide us, baptism (water/ Holy Spirit), musical instruments, eternal security. The most fervently debated topic, however, is, arguably, the rapture. Specifically its timing.
Varieties of theological positions on the timing of the rapture are floating around there in Greater Christendom. For instance, the position held by the emergent, postmodern “church”, who view the rapture in general as 1) a mythical event constructed by ignorant fundamental Christians through an overzealous twisting of Scripture and 2) one believed by that group, known otherwise as the lunatic fringe of Christianity.
I’m using the term “church” loosely when I talk about the postmodern church, but hey, so did John in Revelation 3:14. The bulk of the evangelical world, however, is divided, as far as the timing of the rapture goes, into two camps: rapture occurring before the beginning of the tribulation (otherwise known as pre-trib), and rapture at the end of tribulation predictably known as post-trib). As promised, in this column I will continue to share some of the reasons to anticipate pretrib rapture that I’ve been collecting. .
Continue, because I have previously posted several: What’s Your Flight Shedule? (Nov 13, 2014); Wednesday’s Church (October 3, 2012) and Going to the Chapel (November 23, 2011). And probably more that I have forgotten.
Let’s start from a birds-eye view. The Book of Revelation presents a timeline of endtime events, beginning with tribulation and ending with the final victory-of the Lamb over His enemies, as promised. It is this timeline in Revelation that enables us to figure out how all of the pieces of the prophetic picture scattered throughout the Old Testament books fit in, together giving us a wide-scope but also, detailed picture of the events prophesied to be our world to an end.
And Revelation begins with the state of the Church on earth (actually, in sequence, an entire timeline of church history, ending with the apostate church of Laodicea) followed by, in chronological sequence:
The opening of a door into heaven.
A command, from God, to “come up here.”
Recognition of the Lamb as the source of redemption, followed by enthusiastic worship of the same
Jesus, the savior, being acknowledged as worthy to break the seals of the scroll.
Then Jesus takes the scroll --that only He can open and breaks the first seal. And with the first seal, unleashes the Antichrist (the Imitation Christ) who, having signed the treaty which Daniel identifies as the official starting gun for tribulation (Daniel 9:27), is now free to begin the world conquest that was always his real intent. And he begins his quest for world domination by riding a white horse, in imitation of the Christ the Avenger of blood who will come to save His people in Revelation 19.
The Lord Jesus opens the first seal, and the antichrist, the imitation Christ, rides forth, and, with that, the tribulation begins. After the church is identified as being on earth and, after a door to heaven opens and God’s voice says, “come up here.” And—most intriguingly-- before the first seal of the tribulation is opened.
Not convinced? The rest of the book reiterates that the “Come up here” in Revelation 4, on the Revelation timeline, is, in fact, the rapture of the church. How can we tell? The next 15 chapters of Revelation.
Although the church is the absolute focus of the first three chapters of Revelation (before the “come up here”), mentioned, in fact 17 times in those three chapters, in the next 15 chapters of Revelation the church is completely and conspicuously absent. (Although Zion and Israel do appear, as do Judah, Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Napthali, Issachar, Asher, Gad , Benjamin, Manasseh, and Joseph). The church finally reappears, however, in Revelation Chapter 19, but they’re not, as Hank Hanegraff would have us believe, enduring tribulation. To the contrary, the church is coming back to earth, with their bridegroom and Savior, as the purified and redeemed bride of Christ.
Past tense, done deal, fait accompli, as described in Revelation 19:
“Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.” 8 And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints …. 11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had[e] a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean,[f] followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp[g] sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS."
The armies in heaven, already purified, are clothed in fine linen (identifying them as the church vis-à-vis Revelation 19:8) and coming back now from heaven with their Savior and Lord. They follow Him out of heaven, not into heaven. So this is not the rapture. And Isaiah 65 identified the elect that are gathered at the end of tribulation as the remnant of Israel saved during the tribulation, not the church, as is often argued by the post-trib view.
And with that, the Revelation timeline of the church is complete. To recap: the church is the complete focus of Chapters 1-3, but then beckoned by God in Revelation 4 to “come up here”. They are then totally absent from the events on earth laid out in chapters 5-18, reappearing only in chapter 19 of Revelation as the bride of Christ (having completed her bridal “week” of seven years) on her way the wedding feast described in Revelation 19:9.
The purpose of the tribulation is spelled out for us in Hosea 5:15 and it’s not to purify the bride (who, as we saw above, has already purified and given, by her bridegroom, the garments of salvation).
It’s to bring His chosen people back into His arms. According to the Lord himself, “I will return again to my place till they acknowledge their offense. Then they will seek my face; In their affliction they will earnestly seek me.”
And they will. But the church will be watching that glorious day from the balcony!
Wendy Wippel
One wise soul once observed that there’s a fine line between hobbies and mental illness. Particularly collecting. A blood relative of mine, e.g., proudly displays dozens of glass replicas of vintage cars, filled with aftershave. (I rest my case.) I collect evidences for pre-trib rapture. Which at least don’t add to the clutter.
Even among true evangelicals (increasingly outnumbered, seemingly, by those afflicted with itching ears), issues divide us, baptism (water/ Holy Spirit), musical instruments, eternal security. The most fervently debated topic, however, is, arguably, the rapture. Specifically its timing.
Varieties of theological positions on the timing of the rapture are floating around there in Greater Christendom. For instance, the position held by the emergent, postmodern “church”, who view the rapture in general as 1) a mythical event constructed by ignorant fundamental Christians through an overzealous twisting of Scripture and 2) one believed by that group, known otherwise as the lunatic fringe of Christianity.
I’m using the term “church” loosely when I talk about the postmodern church, but hey, so did John in Revelation 3:14. The bulk of the evangelical world, however, is divided, as far as the timing of the rapture goes, into two camps: rapture occurring before the beginning of the tribulation (otherwise known as pre-trib), and rapture at the end of tribulation predictably known as post-trib). As promised, in this column I will continue to share some of the reasons to anticipate pretrib rapture that I’ve been collecting. .
Continue, because I have previously posted several: What’s Your Flight Shedule? (Nov 13, 2014); Wednesday’s Church (October 3, 2012) and Going to the Chapel (November 23, 2011). And probably more that I have forgotten.
Let’s start from a birds-eye view. The Book of Revelation presents a timeline of endtime events, beginning with tribulation and ending with the final victory-of the Lamb over His enemies, as promised. It is this timeline in Revelation that enables us to figure out how all of the pieces of the prophetic picture scattered throughout the Old Testament books fit in, together giving us a wide-scope but also, detailed picture of the events prophesied to be our world to an end.
And Revelation begins with the state of the Church on earth (actually, in sequence, an entire timeline of church history, ending with the apostate church of Laodicea) followed by, in chronological sequence:
The opening of a door into heaven.
A command, from God, to “come up here.”
Recognition of the Lamb as the source of redemption, followed by enthusiastic worship of the same
Jesus, the savior, being acknowledged as worthy to break the seals of the scroll.
Then Jesus takes the scroll --that only He can open and breaks the first seal. And with the first seal, unleashes the Antichrist (the Imitation Christ) who, having signed the treaty which Daniel identifies as the official starting gun for tribulation (Daniel 9:27), is now free to begin the world conquest that was always his real intent. And he begins his quest for world domination by riding a white horse, in imitation of the Christ the Avenger of blood who will come to save His people in Revelation 19.
The Lord Jesus opens the first seal, and the antichrist, the imitation Christ, rides forth, and, with that, the tribulation begins. After the church is identified as being on earth and, after a door to heaven opens and God’s voice says, “come up here.” And—most intriguingly-- before the first seal of the tribulation is opened.
Not convinced? The rest of the book reiterates that the “Come up here” in Revelation 4, on the Revelation timeline, is, in fact, the rapture of the church. How can we tell? The next 15 chapters of Revelation.
Although the church is the absolute focus of the first three chapters of Revelation (before the “come up here”), mentioned, in fact 17 times in those three chapters, in the next 15 chapters of Revelation the church is completely and conspicuously absent. (Although Zion and Israel do appear, as do Judah, Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Napthali, Issachar, Asher, Gad , Benjamin, Manasseh, and Joseph). The church finally reappears, however, in Revelation Chapter 19, but they’re not, as Hank Hanegraff would have us believe, enduring tribulation. To the contrary, the church is coming back to earth, with their bridegroom and Savior, as the purified and redeemed bride of Christ.
Past tense, done deal, fait accompli, as described in Revelation 19:
“Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.” 8 And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints …. 11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had[e] a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean,[f] followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp[g] sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS."
The armies in heaven, already purified, are clothed in fine linen (identifying them as the church vis-à-vis Revelation 19:8) and coming back now from heaven with their Savior and Lord. They follow Him out of heaven, not into heaven. So this is not the rapture. And Isaiah 65 identified the elect that are gathered at the end of tribulation as the remnant of Israel saved during the tribulation, not the church, as is often argued by the post-trib view.
And with that, the Revelation timeline of the church is complete. To recap: the church is the complete focus of Chapters 1-3, but then beckoned by God in Revelation 4 to “come up here”. They are then totally absent from the events on earth laid out in chapters 5-18, reappearing only in chapter 19 of Revelation as the bride of Christ (having completed her bridal “week” of seven years) on her way the wedding feast described in Revelation 19:9.
The purpose of the tribulation is spelled out for us in Hosea 5:15 and it’s not to purify the bride (who, as we saw above, has already purified and given, by her bridegroom, the garments of salvation).
It’s to bring His chosen people back into His arms. According to the Lord himself, “I will return again to my place till they acknowledge their offense. Then they will seek my face; In their affliction they will earnestly seek me.”
And they will. But the church will be watching that glorious day from the balcony!
Wendy Wippel
MARANATHA! :victory:
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