Open carry arguments.


S

SirTapparuni

New member
I got into an argument with my buddy who doesn't open carry. He said, its stupid and risky. As an example he said that if a crime IS being committed, that if the person was armed as saw you had an open firearm, that they would shoot you and the open carried fire arm would not act as a deterrent.

sent from a Samsung Galaxy S4
 

SirTapparuni said:
I got into an argument with my buddy who doesn't open carry. He said, its stupid and risky. As an example he said that if a crime IS being committed, that if the person was armed as saw you had an open firearm, that they would shoot you and the open carried fire arm would not act as a deterrent.

sent from a Samsung Galaxy S4
Click to expand...

I am afraid that off duty LEO would disagree with him. Most criminals are not that calculating and observant. That is why you constantly see LEO here carrying open off duty and out of uniform.
 
I would suppose that does make sense. However, he said regardless its a risk. Do you think he is giving the criminal more credit then they deserve?

sent from a Samsung Galaxy S4
 
SirTapparuni said:
I would suppose that does make sense. However, he said regardless its a risk. Do you think he is giving the criminal more credit then they deserve?

sent from a Samsung Galaxy S4
Click to expand...

I open carry for the tactical advantage.

There are too many variables to say what will happen in any given situation.

I can tell you this though, I have read two questionable stories about open carriers being targeted for their firearms, and two confirmed stories of open carriers not being targeted during a crime in progress. Thousands of stories about open carriers preventing crimes.

The risk has always been higher for concealing a firearm in my research.

Open carrying is at a slightly higher risk of being the victim of a crime committed by bad guys wearing a badge.
 
Firefighterchen said:
They get chosen more, whether it's them or their situation, so their risk is higher.
Click to expand...

Plus 1

I can't ever remember a "It happened to me" story that stated. "the victim (an OC'er) was able to retrieve his weapon and stop the attack."

But, I've probably read THOUSANDS of stories that stated "The victim who had a conceal carry permit, drew his "concealed" firearm (yada, yada, yada)..."

An intelligent person doesn't have to do much research at all to discover far, FAR more CC'ers are forced to use their weapon in a SD situation that OC'ers.


-
 
Or what if someone sees you OCing and calls the Police. Can they arrest you for "Disturbing the Peace z"

sent from a Samsung Galaxy S4
 
There's all sorts of random places in CO where open carry is prohibited. Even though I do prefer CC, I probably would here simply because I can't memorize all the places where OC is banned. I'll certainly do what I can to help get it un-banned whenever possible, though!
 
So... could an argument be made that the person calling the police was disturbing your peace and should be arrested? :wink:
 
SirTapparuni said:
Or what if someone sees you OCing and calls the Police. Can they arrest you for "Disturbing the Peace z"

sent from a Samsung Galaxy S4
Click to expand...

They can, and you can sue for false arrest.

Also, read the trial of Terry vs. OH. It is a must read for anyone that is an American. It explains in the trial what LE is allowed to do when they approach you. Detaining you for the sole purpose of you carrying a firearm is not a legitimate reason.

Here's a synopsis: Terry v. Ohio

This trial is where LE got the term "Terry pat", or what most lay people call "being frisked". A pat down cannot be rummaging in people's pockets. However, an experienced cop can get away with, I felt a bag that had the same characteristics as marijuana and then reach in the pocket and get the marijuana.
 
SirTapparuni said:
I got into an argument with my buddy who doesn't open carry. He said, its stupid and risky. As an example he said that if a crime IS being committed, that if the person was armed as saw you had an open firearm, that they would shoot you and the open carried fire arm would not act as a deterrent.

sent from a Samsung Galaxy S4
Click to expand...

Ask him to supply cites to back up his position. How he may "feel" about an issue does not equate to factual events. Ask for the cites.
 
tcox4freedom said:
I can't ever remember a "It happened to me" story that stated. "the victim (an OC'er) was able to retrieve his weapon and stop the attack."

But, I've probably read THOUSANDS of stories that stated "The victim who had a conceal carry permit, drew his "concealed" firearm (yada, yada, yada)..."

An intelligent person doesn't have to do much research at all to discover far, FAR more CC'ers are forced to use their weapon in a SD situation that OC'ers.
Click to expand...

The stories are out there but not many, like this one:
Link Removed

The stories may be harder to find because when the bad guys walk away when seeing an armed citizen it is seldom known to any but the bad guys. I have read surveys where they interview criminals in prison and they confirm that when the see an armed citizen they go looking for an easier target. For what it is worth I both conceal and open carry so I do not advocate one over the other.
 
Hawkeye638 said:
The stories are out there but not many, like this one:
Link Removed

The stories may be harder to find because when the bad guys walk away when seeing an armed citizen it is seldom known to any but the bad guys. I have read surveys where they interview criminals in prison and they confirm that when the see an armed citizen they go looking for an easier target. For what it is worth I both conceal and open carry so I do not advocate one over the other.
Click to expand...

That story & others like it just add support to the OC is better than CC argument. Stories like this give credence to the statement many of us that have OCed or do OC have been saying all along; "OC is more of a deterrent against crime than CC".

IMHO;
Once you consider stories like this and the over abundance of stories that show where a CC'er was actually attacked and had to defend themselves with deadly force, it's a NO Brain-er.

To me;
I think overall, OC offers greater protection & a TRUE "tactical" advantage over CC. I think with unbiased research, most intelligent people would have to come to the same conclusion.

Thanks for sharing that one again.


ETA:
I think what most of the anti OC people don't understand is the vast majority of criminals have the mindset to commit their crime in such a way as to commit it and make a clean get away. A well heeled OC'er are LEO sends a very clear message to the criminal that they may not be able to get away clean.

Of course anti's will argue that a criminal will just shoot the OCer. But, stories like the above fly in the face of that myth because truth be told most criminals that we may come in contact with in our lives aren't killers and they don't have a death wish. The FEW criminals out there that might be terrorists, killers or psychopaths just won't care either way.

OC also allows a legal citizen more choices in PCWs than CC does. Personally, if I were to face a terrorist attack or a psychopath bent on killing as many people as possible, I would feel a whole lot better knowing I am legally OC'ing a full size combat HG over a compact CC pistol.


-
 
SirTapparuni said:
Chen- Why would you say the risk is higher for concealment?

sent from a Samsung Galaxy S4
Click to expand...
I know you asked this question of my good internet friend "Chen" but let me give you a different perspective to consider for yourself and for your friend....

Quite often folks try to justify concealed carry over open carry as concealed carry being better because it has some kind of "element of surprise" ... but please consider this.....

About that "element of surprise" thing..........

CC and OC have the very same "element of surprise" because the "element of surprise" is really nothing more than the bad guy being "surprised" to discover his intended victim ..... has a gun.

With CC the bad guy is "surprised" to see his intended victim has a gun to defend himself with after the bad guy has already chosen his victim and the attack is already in progress and at that point seeing the gun can make the bad guy decide to stop the attack.

With OC the bad guy is "surprised" to see his intended victim has a gun to defend himself with during the bad guy's choosing a victim process and at that point seeing the gun can make the bad guy decide not to attack at all.

But either way... it was the bad guy being "surprised" to see a gun that was the actual "element of surprise".

Quite frankly... I'd prefer the bad guy be "surprised" to see my openly carried gun and decide not to attack me so I can go home and watch the 6 o'clock news coverage .... from the comfort of my easy chair..... about the CC'er who had to pull his gun and "surprise" the bad guy who attacked him.

Does OC's "element of surprise" really work? Well.... there have been thousands of folks open carrying in many States (Like Arizona) for decades! and yet accounts of folks OC'ing being attacked are rare. And you know with the anti gun media any incident involving an open carrier being attacked would be covered over and over and over yet such has not been the case in the past nor is it now.

And, in my not so humble opinion, because CC's use of the "element of surprise" is only effective after the attack has begun but OC's use of the "element of surprise" can prevent an attack from happening............. OC's use of the "element of surprise" is far superior to CC's because....

I'd much rather watch the 6 o'clock news than to BE the news.

So..................... would your friend prefer to have the bad guy not confront him in any way and leave him completely alone because your friend was open carrying? Or would your friend prefer concealed carry and wait until the bad guy attacked him in order to "surprise" the bad guy and end up talking to the cops, maybe going to jail, paying an attorney to defend him in court, worrying about retribution from the bad guy's family members?
 
SirTapparuni said:
Or what if someone sees you OCing and calls the Police. Can they arrest you for "Disturbing the Peace z"

farsidefan1 said:
NO

Not unless you are disturbing the peace :) Open carry does not = disturbing the peace.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Before August of this year, that "NO" would get people here in AL arrested and convicted for disturbing the peace if a cop desired to arrest and charge them. It varies widely from state to state. Thanks to our new gun/carry laws though, a cop no longer has the authority to use the simple visibility of an otherwise legally carried weapon as probable cause for a contact or a DtP charge.

There are very few, if any, questions about firearms or the legalities involved with carrying them that can be answered with an unequivocal "Yes" or "No" throughout the nation.

Blues
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

New Threads

Members online

No members online now.
Total: 164 (members: 0, guests: 164)

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
49,544
Messages
611,260
Members
74,959
Latest member
defcon

Share this page

Back
Top