The_Outlaw
~The Dude Abides~
Again with the Bloviating?
Try opening your mind and giving your keyboard a little rest and then maybe you'll actually learn something on 'this' forum.
:big_boss:
One in chamber? Yes / No
- Thread starter Genesis1
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Again with the Bloviating?
Try opening your mind and giving your keyboard a little rest and then maybe you'll actually learn something on 'this' forum.
:big_boss:
vernsimpson
New member
Please do not be sorry that you said anything. I believe that if you did not say something that would be somewhat dumb. When you ask a question or give an opinion you are in the debate. While I disagree with your stance I believe that it is your choice. Most of the discussions on this forum are good and have given me insight on carrying. But if you feel that you should not carry or have a weapon with a round chambered then do it. I hope you will be OK with that. I carry with the max rounds my weapon will take. I do NOT carry hoping I will get to use it. I hope and pray that I NEVER have to take my gun out of the holster except to clean it or on the range.
I heard someone say once, " Carrying is like having a parachute, if you need either one and don't have one then you will never need one again!"
Firefighterchen
OC for Tactical Advantage
Good points bro. I must add, even with HTH training, everyone should be ready to fix themselves when they start bleeding. Whether its a badguy with a knife or gun, prepare to start bleeding even if you win. Everyone should go get some first aid training, most instructors can specifically go over trauma and GSW treatment if asked.
You bring up a good point. I am one of those guys dead set on +1...except you have me lumped into the wrong category. I too think having a jacket or shirt in the way is another point of possible failure. Now when it's 0 degrees outside, I really have no choice but to wear a jacket, but I will always try and carry openly to have the best chances of getting my firearm with the least amount of possible failures. +1 and open carry, the best chances I can give myself.
tricolordad
Banned
That's why you put some time in practicing your draw instead of just slapping the gun into the holster and walking out the door. It's also a good idea to practice your draw while backpedaling. Or not. Whatever suits the individual I guess.
HD-kutz
New member
My point exactly and you seem to get it. I've never said how I carry or my experience but I will say I graduated high school when most of our class trips were to Southeast Asia. My point is there is fail or potential fail in most methods.
I find it amusing that people make the hideous statement that unless you carry plus on you should leave your firearm home of carry a brick.
As for the "outlaw" tossing insults well that merely speaks for itself. I could have respected your opinion but where I come from respect is earned. Funny for all you know we may agree on the preferred methods, I just don't stoop to insulting people that express a dissenting opinion.
The_Outlaw
~The Dude Abides~
Actually, it was 'you' who has been acting belligerent and being insulting to people on this forum in general....
It was you that started with the childish name calling of people on this forum...
You called forum members; "Ninja Numbskulls" & "A Bunch of Lemmings", if I remember correctly.
Anyone can plainly see that by simply looking at our recent 'back and forths' that I have previously quoted you on verbatim.
P.s.
Art & Belle? Is that you again??
SMH...
I'm no expert, but I've had training from some. And I practiced quite a bit before ammo went sky high.
Reading the comments it is pretty easy to tell who actually drills drawing from concealment and getting rounds on target, and who doesn't.
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk 2
The Outlaw... In the video you posted the police were not handling the situation well. Once a guy has a knife out they should have surrounded him from three angles in a way so that if any of them shot they did not have to worry about hitting another cop. Also they were being to nice. I take it they don't have tasers or they should have used them right away before things escalated in order to disarm the man. When someone has a weapon act quickly because the longer you take the bigger chance of him using the weapon. Also they could have shot him in the leg with a handgun to make him immobile.
Once the guy started charging they were like a barnyard of chickens, running all around. They were unsure which gives the bad guy more of an advantage. Soon as he stabbed the first cop the others should have been shooting. Also after the first cop was stabbed if he charged another cop the cop should have stood his ground and rapid fired at the guy as he was charging. These police were poorly trained or forgot their training. You don't play around with someone who has a knife drawn. Very bad police work, ask any police dept or firearms instructor to view this video and they will say the same thing I'm saying. A weapon is brandished, cops must act fast, talk with him later at the hospital.
:triniti:
Once the guy started charging they were like a barnyard of chickens, running all around. They were unsure which gives the bad guy more of an advantage. Soon as he stabbed the first cop the others should have been shooting. Also after the first cop was stabbed if he charged another cop the cop should have stood his ground and rapid fired at the guy as he was charging. These police were poorly trained or forgot their training. You don't play around with someone who has a knife drawn. Very bad police work, ask any police dept or firearms instructor to view this video and they will say the same thing I'm saying. A weapon is brandished, cops must act fast, talk with him later at the hospital.
:triniti:
Now boys lets all try and get along we are after all on the same side...
I spend way too much time on line, 12 gun forums, 2 aircraft, 3 treasure, 2 Pyro Tec,2 car, and the evil FB (no games)... plus mail.
Yes I know this discussion has been through the wringer but unless you personally know someone you have no idea how they carry, or their skill levels, so a brash statement is not good, it can destroy ones credibility and I know that is important to everyone...
Be safe and practice for that is how you will respond in a crisis...
whodat2710
New member
cluznar, I agree with most of your post, but the part I quoted is not something to advocate. That might be a neat trick on TV, but relatively useless in real life. Either you have a reason to shoot someone or you don't. If you do, double-tap center-mass - at a minimum. head shot optional. center mass is what you aim for on a target or for real, because it gives you the best chance of hitting something.
At the risk of walking into a wildfire issue as my first post...
I agree with the above. Taking the "+1 or you're wrong" stance one step further, why not walk everywhere you go at the low ready? No .5 second delay drawing for me, or for that matter why not at the high ready room clearing posture, Hey, why not have a team stacked SWAT style clearing every inch of the ground you cover throughout the day complete with back up, overhead air support, and a MEDEVAC with rotors turning just in case all that still gets you shot?
My point is that each person makes their own decision based on a variety of factors which include their own risk estimate. Some don't carry, some carry at certain times, some carry empty chambers, and some carry +1. It's all personal preference and one answer can't be wrong.
If any one of us actually knew, absolutely knew, without a doubt that they would have to draw their weapon that day and fire I wonder how many would decide to just stay home. I probably would. Not many activities in my life worth dying for. But if I did know that I'd be drawing down I'd probably be rolling with back up and at the ready and maybe even with something better than the popular concealed carry guns.
I'm a Soldier, been serving over 20 years, about half of that as an MP, just a little of it on the streets here stateside in a patrol car and a little bit of it on the crowded streets where people want to kill me. I'm sure many of you have more experience than I and that's fine, but I'm not a kid or a youngster with his first gun either. For all the "what do you do in the 2 seconds it takes to ___" crowd, how long has it been since you've been in that 2 second situation (standing at the ATM when robber approaches) or (in a parking lot with family and strangers in close proximity) and how do you even know how you'll react? Once again, lots of experienced people here and I won't challenge anyone's credentials, but really? Do we have that many people who have experienced the life or death face to face shootout on this board? Or, more probably, do we have a lot of people with strong opinions that have made their own decisions about their personal security posture opinion and are taking it a bit far thinking it may be the only "right" answer?
So for me it's a small .38 revolver fully loaded, but if it's the M&P9 I may have an empty chamber and "gasp" even the safety on, maybe +1 depending on my decision for the day. My judgement of everyone else's decision is just that I'm happy they are thinking about their safety and taking the measures they feel prudent to protect themselves and those around them.
But to someone here, I'm bet I'm wrong as the day is long. Let's see.
HD-kutz
New member
I just bumped into this article. Made interesting reading.:
The Thinking Gunfighter: THE MYTHS OF THE ISRAELI METHOD OF CARRY, or why carrying chamber empty isn?t so bad.
The Thinking Gunfighter: THE MYTHS OF THE ISRAELI METHOD OF CARRY, or why carrying chamber empty isn?t so bad.
whodat2710
New member
HD-kutz - Good article with some great points. I think that regardless of your choice, practice and consistency are most important. I have to disagree with "drolen" that it might be based on how you feel that day. Regardless of how I choose to carry, I don't want to have to think about "is there one in the chamber" if the need to use it arises. With a 7(or 8) round pocket pistol, I would hate to see one of my few rounds flying through the air as I rack the slide, forgetting what my decision was that morning because I am now in an adrenaline charged life or death situation. I know that no matter how well I shoot in practice, adrenaline will affect how I shoot. Many gunfights involving police end up with a very low number of hits per rounds fired. (John Lott's Website: Police hit rates on shootings as low as 17.4 percent) I know that you should always treat a gun as loaded, so why does it matter if it is actually loaded? To the point, how ever you carry, practice drawing/shooting etc. in that manner and IMHO be consistent with how you carry.
HD-kutz
New member
My point from the get go was there is really no absolute. During this whole discussion I've never even said how I carry. Like drolen, I've carried different in different situations. I practice different methods although as I get older I'm down to just 2 methods and 2 main weapons.
IMHO and in all my time in some very nice locations the most important two assets you can have is awareness and avoidance so your firearm can just go for a walk with you in your belt.
IMHO and in all my time in some very nice locations the most important two assets you can have is awareness and avoidance so your firearm can just go for a walk with you in your belt.
to chamber or not to chamber... that is completely up to you
whatever you feel comfortable with and nobody should be telling you what is better than the other.
most new CCW holders carry unchambered for a year or 2 maybe more then they eventually keep one chambered.
i personally don't keep on in the chamber when i wear IWB, but then again i have practiced my Israeli draw many times on and off range.
when i use a holster with a locking retention i normally keep those chambered.
whatever you feel comfortable with and nobody should be telling you what is better than the other.
most new CCW holders carry unchambered for a year or 2 maybe more then they eventually keep one chambered.
i personally don't keep on in the chamber when i wear IWB, but then again i have practiced my Israeli draw many times on and off range.
when i use a holster with a locking retention i normally keep those chambered.
BUmmedic
New member
I posted previously that I carried condition 1, but have since switched to carrying condition 3. First, I have young children, and although I educate them appropriately as they age, if they happen to forget the rules, as kids will do, a trigger pull won't end in tragedy. I don't store my guns chambered (again, young children), and between clambering and unchambering, I just feel that one leaves themselves open to an AD. Yes, I store them where young hands can't get them, but again, in the extremely off chance, trigger pull doesn't equal tragedy. I feel
comfortable with my Israeli draw and other one-handed techniques that I don't lose sleep over not having one in the chamber. Know your weapon, practice and perfect your carry, draw, target acquisition, and trigger pulls, and let the rest take care of itself.
comfortable with my Israeli draw and other one-handed techniques that I don't lose sleep over not having one in the chamber. Know your weapon, practice and perfect your carry, draw, target acquisition, and trigger pulls, and let the rest take care of itself.
Well said, and 100% right.
Very good, I understand your reasoning . Makes sense to me.
Should I not hold my child's hand while crossing the street, I may need that hand for the charging bad guy.
Should I only have my wife scratch an itch ,because I may need that hand for a quick draw, and seconds count.
Should I not hold my child's hand while crossing the street, I may need that hand for the charging bad guy.
Should I only have my wife scratch an itch ,because I may need that hand for a quick draw, and seconds count.
FlashBack
Member
Yep...no one size fits all..people and circumstances vary.
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